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Old 08-08-2012, 07:06 AM
Peter Humphrey
 
Default Want to seriously test a NEW hard drive

On Wednesday 08 August 2012 01:32:55 Mark Knecht wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Peter Humphrey
<peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:
> > On Tuesday 07 August 2012 23:39:05 Mark Knecht wrote:
> >> Dead out of the box is dead. However a drive failing in a couple
> >> of months _might_ have showed up in the smartctl output ...
> >
> > I wonder. Does anyone here know what most often causes HD failure
> > after a couple of months? I imagine it's some component whose
> > material is substandard, in which case it might show up with
> > smartclt or it might not. I dunno.
> >
> > --
> > Rgds
> > Peter
>
> This has come up before on this list I think.

I must have missed it then.

> This is the overarching sort of thinking about failure over
> lifetime...
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve

Yes, I'm familiar with that idea thanks. I was wondering what specific
causes were most implicated.

--
Rgds
Peter
 
Old 08-08-2012, 12:10 PM
Mick
 
Default Want to seriously test a NEW hard drive

On Wednesday 08 Aug 2012 05:21:31 Adam Carter wrote:
> > To wipe a drive use dban. - live CD which uses (US) gov approved
> > standards of wipe methods/patterns.
>
> Or shred, which comes with coreutils.
>
> > dd is only going to show sectors on a failed drive - too late!
> >
> > To explain, modern drives have a store of locations they can use to
> > transparently replace any failed locations (apparently similar to the
> > way SSD's do it) - the internal drive electronics handle this and its
> > not visible externally though smart data seems to show it, but as google
> > says, smart is a bit suspect. The problem of a bad sector will only
> > show once all the reserved locations are used up, by which time the
> > drive is usually in rampant failure.
> >
> > I do suspect this is one reason for googles results - actual failures of
> > the media (as against the motors/electronics are much as they always
> > have been, but the drives are not reporting them until its too late.
>
> Ahh - go to know. My reasoning assumed that smart reports all remaps.

May be it does, but I understand that dd or shred won't overwrite them, or any
bad blocks. You'll need the hdparm ATA secure erase (or enhanced secure
erase) feature for that.

BTW, Dale make sure that you plug the drive in a SATA controller for running
the hdparm erase function. It has been reported that doing this using a USB
port will brick the drive!
--
Regards,
Mick
 
Old 08-08-2012, 12:53 PM
Dale
 
Default Want to seriously test a NEW hard drive

Mick wrote:
> On Wednesday 08 Aug 2012 05:21:31 Adam Carter wrote:
>>> To wipe a drive use dban. - live CD which uses (US) gov approved
>>> standards of wipe methods/patterns.
>> Or shred, which comes with coreutils.
>>
>>> dd is only going to show sectors on a failed drive - too late!
>>>
>>> To explain, modern drives have a store of locations they can use to
>>> transparently replace any failed locations (apparently similar to the
>>> way SSD's do it) - the internal drive electronics handle this and its
>>> not visible externally though smart data seems to show it, but as google
>>> says, smart is a bit suspect. The problem of a bad sector will only
>>> show once all the reserved locations are used up, by which time the
>>> drive is usually in rampant failure.
>>>
>>> I do suspect this is one reason for googles results - actual failures of
>>> the media (as against the motors/electronics are much as they always
>>> have been, but the drives are not reporting them until its too late.
>> Ahh - go to know. My reasoning assumed that smart reports all remaps.
> May be it does, but I understand that dd or shred won't overwrite them, or any
> bad blocks. You'll need the hdparm ATA secure erase (or enhanced secure
> erase) feature for that.
>
> BTW, Dale make sure that you plug the drive in a SATA controller for running
> the hdparm erase function. It has been reported that doing this using a USB
> port will brick the drive!


I don't use USB for drives, except the USB stick thingys.

I have a question sort of related to this. Anyone can share info. I
see boxes that hold drives in them and connect via ethernet or something
like that. Do those work really well? I thought about getting one
someday but I don't know what they do and how they do it EXACTLY. Is it
like a small puter in there or some other means of getting the data
across?

Right now, I like having my drives in my Cooler Master case. The fan
blows right on the drives so they stay nice and cool. But, I have given
thought to having the non OS drives in one of those little boxes, maybe
using RAID and mirroring the data on two drives.

Just what magic is in those things?

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
 
Old 08-08-2012, 02:48 PM
Ricardo Jesus
 
Default Want to seriously test a NEW hard drive

Sent from my Android device.

On Aug 6, 2012 4:22 PM, "Paul Hartman" <paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 7:45 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

> Howdy,

>

> I finally got me a 3Tb drive on the way. *Should be here Wednesday. *I

> have seen some reviews where it would not work right. *I think some of

> it may be BIOS related since some BIOS's don't like drives that large.

> Anyway, I want to test this thing real good to really make sure it is up

> to the task before putting my data on it. *It's going to be so much

> data, there is really no way to do back-ups at this point. *Come on, 2

> to 3Tbs on 4Gb DVDs. *Really? *lol *Maybe a external drive later on but

> for now, well.

>

> I have heard of bonnie and friends. *I also think dd could do some

> testing too. *Is there any other way to give this a good work and see if

> it holds up? *Oh, helpful hints with Bonnie would be great too. *I have

> never used it before. *Maybe someone has some test that is really brutal.



I wouldn't want to torture the drive, but just make sure it works.



What I do: boot parted magic liveCD, run ATA SECURE ERASE on the drive

(you probably need to suspend and awaken your machine to unlock the

drive, the GUI tool in the liveCD does this for you automatically),

that will do factory reformat/low-level reformat, then run SMART full

test which can take many hours. If it survives both of those, and

doesn't make audible clicking noises in the process, I feel confident

that it is in working order.



Those steps are more important if I'm testing a used or refurbished

drive, for a new drive you may want to skip the secure erase and only

do the smart test. If SMART test passes then I don't think there's any

reason to run badblocks, but you can have it run during mkfs if you

want reassurance.
 
Old 08-08-2012, 03:10 PM
Paul Hartman
 
Default Want to seriously test a NEW hard drive

On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 9:19 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> 4 or 5 hours huh. I guess drives are a lot faster now. Back in the
> late 80's or early 90's, it took that long for those whimpy little 100Mb
> drives. Ooops, my ages is showing again. lol

I recently found a box of hard drives in my house and have been using
ddrescue to pull the data off of them. These drives were not that old,
around 1gb each. Desktop drives. I was amazed at how slow they were
relative to today's drives... 2MB/sec? 5MB/sec? My internet connection
is faster than that now.

Also, found a dead 5.25" Quantum hard drive... forgot how huge those
are. Weighed a ton and it was built like a tank.

Your new drive will probably go around 100-150MB/sec or so on
sequential writes. So you can do the math and figure out how many
hours that will take.
 
Old 08-08-2012, 03:39 PM
Dale
 
Default Want to seriously test a NEW hard drive

Paul Hartman wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 9:19 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 4 or 5 hours huh. I guess drives are a lot faster now. Back in the
>> late 80's or early 90's, it took that long for those whimpy little 100Mb
>> drives. Ooops, my ages is showing again. lol
> I recently found a box of hard drives in my house and have been using
> ddrescue to pull the data off of them. These drives were not that old,
> around 1gb each. Desktop drives. I was amazed at how slow they were
> relative to today's drives... 2MB/sec? 5MB/sec? My internet connection
> is faster than that now.
>
> Also, found a dead 5.25" Quantum hard drive... forgot how huge those
> are. Weighed a ton and it was built like a tank.
>
> Your new drive will probably go around 100-150MB/sec or so on
> sequential writes. So you can do the math and figure out how many
> hours that will take.
>
>


It won't be that fast. The drive supports 6Gbs/sec but my mobo is only
3Gbs/sec. I hope to upgrade my mobo at some point. Then maybe the ram
and CPU. I been looking at those 8 core CPUs a bit. The prices are
coming down slowly.

Anyway, I'll only get the 3Gbs/sec for now.

I used to have a couple of those really old 14 inch hard drives. I
think I sold them for scrap a few years ago. They were mostly aluminium
if I recall correctly. They were only a few megabytes but they sure was
big.

Our age is showing. lol I bet folks know I am not a teenager now. ;-)

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
 
Old 08-08-2012, 06:02 PM
Dale
 
Default Want to seriously test a NEW hard drive

Dale wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> I finally got me a 3Tb drive on the way. Should be here Wednesday. I
> have seen some reviews where it would not work right. I think some of
> it may be BIOS related since some BIOS's don't like drives that large.
> Anyway, I want to test this thing real good to really make sure it is up
> to the task before putting my data on it. It's going to be so much
> data, there is really no way to do back-ups at this point. Come on, 2
> to 3Tbs on 4Gb DVDs. Really? lol Maybe a external drive later on but
> for now, well.
>
> I have heard of bonnie and friends. I also think dd could do some
> testing too. Is there any other way to give this a good work and see if
> it holds up? Oh, helpful hints with Bonnie would be great too. I have
> never used it before. Maybe someone has some test that is really brutal.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dale
>
> :-) :-)
>


Update. I went to the mailbox and there was a nice pretty brown box.
Bad thing is, drive is OEM with just a blister pack around it. The box
had almost no packing, just a small amount of brown paper. Ewwwwww! It
was just flopping around in the box.

Anyway, I stole a SATA cable from another rig and got this:

root@fireball / # smartctl -t long /dev/sdd
smartctl 5.42 2011-10-20 r3458 [x86_64-linux-3.5.0-gentoo] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-11 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

=== START OF OFFLINE IMMEDIATE AND SELF-TEST SECTION ===
Sending command: "Execute SMART Extended self-test routine immediately
in off-line mode".
Drive command "Execute SMART Extended self-test routine immediately in
off-line mode" successful.
Testing has begun.
Please wait 255 minutes for test to complete.
Test will complete after Wed Aug 8 17:10:46 2012

Use smartctl -X to abort test.
root@fireball / #

255 minutes. Wow. My plan, let this test finish, do a little bit of
copy and rm, then test again. I figure copying 800Gbs to it should give
it a little bit of a work out since I will be doing it twice.

Yeppie.

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
 
Old 08-08-2012, 06:25 PM
Mark Knecht
 
Default Want to seriously test a NEW hard drive

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dale wrote:
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I finally got me a 3Tb drive on the way. Should be here Wednesday. I
>> have seen some reviews where it would not work right. I think some of
>> it may be BIOS related since some BIOS's don't like drives that large.
>> Anyway, I want to test this thing real good to really make sure it is up
>> to the task before putting my data on it. It's going to be so much
>> data, there is really no way to do back-ups at this point. Come on, 2
>> to 3Tbs on 4Gb DVDs. Really? lol Maybe a external drive later on but
>> for now, well.
>>
>> I have heard of bonnie and friends. I also think dd could do some
>> testing too. Is there any other way to give this a good work and see if
>> it holds up? Oh, helpful hints with Bonnie would be great too. I have
>> never used it before. Maybe someone has some test that is really brutal.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-) :-)
>>
>
>
> Update. I went to the mailbox and there was a nice pretty brown box.
> Bad thing is, drive is OEM with just a blister pack around it. The box
> had almost no packing, just a small amount of brown paper. Ewwwwww! It
> was just flopping around in the box.
>
> Anyway, I stole a SATA cable from another rig and got this:
>
> root@fireball / # smartctl -t long /dev/sdd
> smartctl 5.42 2011-10-20 r3458 [x86_64-linux-3.5.0-gentoo] (local build)
> Copyright (C) 2002-11 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net
>
> === START OF OFFLINE IMMEDIATE AND SELF-TEST SECTION ===
> Sending command: "Execute SMART Extended self-test routine immediately
> in off-line mode".
> Drive command "Execute SMART Extended self-test routine immediately in
> off-line mode" successful.
> Testing has begun.
> Please wait 255 minutes for test to complete.
> Test will complete after Wed Aug 8 17:10:46 2012
>
> Use smartctl -X to abort test.
> root@fireball / #
>
> 255 minutes. Wow. My plan, let this test finish, do a little bit of
> copy and rm, then test again. I figure copying 800Gbs to it should give
> it a little bit of a work out since I will be doing it twice.
>
> Yeppie.
>
> Dale
>
> :-) :-)
>
> --
> I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
>
>

Now, don't you wear it out, you hear?!?!? ;-)

If your machine runs all the time you can add smartctl runs as chron
jobs that run at midnight and have the results emailed to you. Look at
them once a week and other than an unpredictable catastrophic failure
you'll likely know a long time before it fails.

Cheers,
Mark
 
Old 08-08-2012, 10:09 PM
Dale
 
Default Want to seriously test a NEW hard drive

Mark Knecht wrote:
> Now, don't you wear it out, you hear?!?!? ;-) If your machine runs all
> the time you can add smartctl runs as chron jobs that run at midnight
> and have the results emailed to you. Look at them once a week and
> other than an unpredictable catastrophic failure you'll likely know a
> long time before it fails. Cheers, Mark

Not going to wear it out but going to make sure it survived the trip
across the country while bouncing around in the box. :/ Check this out:

Aug 8 12:46:47 localhost smartd[2083]: Device: /dev/sdd, type changed
from 'scsi' to 'sat'
Aug 8 12:46:47 localhost smartd[2083]: Device: /dev/sdd [SAT], opened
Aug 8 12:46:47 localhost smartd[2083]: Device: /dev/sdd [SAT],
ST3000DM001-9YN166, S/N:Z1F0PKT5, WWN:5-000c50-04d79e15c, FW:CC4C, 3.00 TB
Aug 8 12:46:47 localhost smartd[2083]: Device: /dev/sdd [SAT], not
found in smartd database.
Aug 8 12:46:47 localhost smartd[2083]: Device: /dev/sdd [SAT], is SMART
capable. Adding to "monitor" list.


And:

Aug 8 13:46:47 localhost smartd[2085]: Device: /dev/sdd [SAT],
self-test in progress, 80% remaining
Aug 8 14:16:47 localhost smartd[2085]: Device: /dev/sdd [SAT],
self-test in progress, 70% remaining
Aug 8 14:46:48 localhost smartd[2085]: Device: /dev/sdd [SAT],
self-test in progress, 60% remaining
Aug 8 15:16:47 localhost smartd[2085]: Device: /dev/sdd [SAT],
self-test in progress, 50% remaining
Aug 8 15:46:47 localhost smartd[2085]: Device: /dev/sdd [SAT],
self-test in progress, 40% remaining
Aug 8 16:16:47 localhost smartd[2085]: Device: /dev/sdd [SAT],
self-test in progress, 30% remaining
Aug 8 16:46:47 localhost smartd[2085]: Device: /dev/sdd [SAT],
self-test in progress, 20% remaining

It's working on it. ;-)

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
 
Old 08-09-2012, 03:22 AM
Dale
 
Default Want to seriously test a NEW hard drive

Dale wrote:
> Not going to wear it out but going to make sure it survived the trip
> across the country while bouncing around in the box. :/ Check this
> out: Aug 8 12:46:47 localhost smartd[2083]: Device: /dev/sdd, type
> changed from 'scsi' to 'sat' Aug 8 12:46:47 localhost smartd[2083]:
> Device: /dev/sdd [SAT], opened Aug 8 12:46:47 localhost smartd[2083]:
> Device: /dev/sdd [SAT], ST3000DM001-9YN166, S/N:Z1F0PKT5,
> WWN:5-000c50-04d79e15c, FW:CC4C, 3.00 TB Aug 8 12:46:47 localhost
> smartd[2083]: Device: /dev/sdd [SAT], not found in smartd database.
> Aug 8 12:46:47 localhost smartd[2083]: Device: /dev/sdd [SAT], is
> SMART capable. Adding to "monitor" list. And: Aug 8 13:46:47 localhost
> smartd[2085]: Device: /dev/sdd [SAT], self-test in progress, 80%
> remaining Aug 8 14:16:47 localhost smartd[2085]: Device: /dev/sdd
> [SAT], self-test in progress, 70% remaining Aug 8 14:46:48 localhost
> smartd[2085]: Device: /dev/sdd [SAT], self-test in progress, 60%
> remaining Aug 8 15:16:47 localhost smartd[2085]: Device: /dev/sdd
> [SAT], self-test in progress, 50% remaining Aug 8 15:46:47 localhost
> smartd[2085]: Device: /dev/sdd [SAT], self-test in progress, 40%
> remaining Aug 8 16:16:47 localhost smartd[2085]: Device: /dev/sdd
> [SAT], self-test in progress, 30% remaining Aug 8 16:46:47 localhost
> smartd[2085]: Device: /dev/sdd [SAT], self-test in progress, 20%
> remaining It's working on it. ;-) Dale :-) :-)

OK. Finished a selftest. So far, so good. Now, why didn't someone
remind me that I had to use some special tool to partition this
monster? It took some doing but I'm not sure I am doing this the right
way. It works for testing tho.

I used something called Gparted to partition this monster. This is
temporary tho. What should I be using to partition this thing? What is
the best, and easiest, tool for me to use? I have been using cfdisk in
the past but it doesn't seem to work on this one. I do want one very
large partition and plan to use LVM on it too.

Oh, it would be nice if the tool is on LiveCDs, SystemRescue in my
case. I use that when the stuff hits the fan and I am covered up pretty
deep. ;-)

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!
 

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