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Philip Webb 08-01-2012 03:47 AM

new machine : proposed design
 
Thanks for all the advice so far. Here is the list of proposed pieces :

CPU : AMD Bulldozer X4 FX-4170 4-Core 4,2 GHz 8 MB : 149.99 (CAD)
Mobo : Asus M5A97 AM3+ DDR3 2133 6xSATA3 2xUSB3 USB2 : 99.99
Memory : Kingston ValueRAM 4 GB DDR3 1333 MHz CL9 : 24.99
Graphix : Asus GT520-1GD3-CSM Nv GT520 810 MHz 1 GB : 54.99
SSD : Kingston HyperX 3K SATA3 120 GB 6 Gb/s : 149.99
HDD : Seagate Barracuda SATA3 500 GB 16 MB 6 Gb/s : 69.99
Case : Canada Computer NA-680 ATX Tower 450 W W/CR : 42.99
subtotal : 592.93
tax : 77.08
total : 670.01

CPU : the principal point made seemed to be that raw speed is central;
I'm suspicious that > 4 cores, chip design becomes vital to performance
& I doubt if I'm going to need more cores; this is the fastest CPU in sight.

Mobo : I've always bought Asus.

Memory : I already have 1 of these in another machine,
so I'll end up with 8 GB after transfering it ; there's no point
in buying faster memory, as it will run at the lower speed.

Graphics : I prefer to go with Nvidia on a separate card :
my suspicion is that Intel's built-in GPU takes space on the die
& I had a bad experience with drivers when I tried to use it
on a machine I built in 2007 (I had to add an Nvidia card in the end).

SSD : I'll use this for everything needing regular access
& esp anything Portage (grin).

HDD : This is far larger than I'll need in the foreseeable future,
but it will allow me to set up an incremental Rsync back-up.

Case : I assume 450 W is adequate; the 2007 PSU has 500 W .

I will also transfer a CD/DVD drive from another machine.

All pieces are in good supply at Canada Computers in downtown Toronto,
which suggests they are popular with other customers.

Comments are as welcome as ever (big smile).

--
========================,,======================== ====================
SUPPORT ___________//___, Philip Webb
ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT `-O----------O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Volker Armin Hemmann 08-01-2012 05:25 AM

new machine : proposed design
 
Eithout looking it up.... With that prize the case is crap. The psu even more so. And Kingston....ugh... noname quality....


Quoting will be shot, blame phone.

Am 01.08.2012 05:52 schrieb "Philip Webb" <purslow@ca.inter.net>:
Thanks for all the advice so far. *Here is the list of proposed pieces :



* CPU : AMD Bulldozer X4 FX-4170 4-Core 4,2 GHz 8 MB * *: *149.99 (CAD)

* Mobo : Asus M5A97 AM3+ DDR3 2133 6xSATA3 2xUSB3 USB2 *: * 99.99

* Memory : Kingston ValueRAM 4 GB DDR3 1333 MHz CL9 * * : * 24.99

* Graphix : Asus GT520-1GD3-CSM Nv GT520 810 MHz 1 GB * : * 54.99

* SSD : Kingston HyperX 3K SATA3 120 GB 6 Gb/s * * * * *: *149.99

* HDD : Seagate Barracuda SATA3 500 GB 16 MB 6 Gb/s * * : * 69.99

* Case : Canada Computer NA-680 ATX Tower 450 W W/CR * *: * 42.99

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *subtotal : *592.93

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * tax : * 77.08

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * total : *670.01



CPU : the principal point made seemed to be that raw speed is central;

I'm suspicious that *> 4 *cores, chip design becomes vital to performance

& I doubt if I'm going to need more cores; this is the fastest CPU in sight.



Mobo : I've always bought Asus.



Memory : I already have *1 *of these in another machine,

so I'll end up with *8 GB *after transfering it ; there's no point

in buying faster memory, as it will run at the lower speed.



Graphics : I prefer to go with Nvidia on a separate card :

my suspicion is that Intel's built-in GPU takes space on the die

& I had a bad experience with drivers when I tried to use it

on a machine I built in 2007 (I had to add an Nvidia card in the end).



SSD : I'll use this for everything needing regular access

& esp anything Portage (grin).



HDD : This is far larger than I'll need in the foreseeable future,

but it will allow me to set up an incremental Rsync back-up.



Case : I assume *450 W *is adequate; the 2007 PSU has *500 W .



I will also transfer a CD/DVD drive from another machine.



All pieces are in good supply at Canada Computers in downtown Toronto,

which suggests they are popular with other customers.



Comments are as welcome as ever (big smile).



--

========================,,======================== ====================

SUPPORT * * ___________//___, * Philip Webb

ELECTRIC * /] [] [] [] [] []| * Cities Centre, University of Toronto

TRANSIT * *`-O----------O---' * purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Daniel Petre 08-01-2012 05:33 AM

new machine : proposed design
 
On Wed, Aug 01, 2012 at 07:25:10AM +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> Eithout looking it up.... With that prize the case is crap. The psu even
> more so. And Kingston....ugh... noname quality....

actually ValueRam is pretty decent, i ran ddr2 modules in some old machines
without problems in the last years, also i remember using HyperX ddr2 on
non *nix computers flawless in office work.

careful on the "real" ssd sata3 types performances tho..

>
> Quoting will be shot, blame phone.
> Am 01.08.2012 05:52 schrieb "Philip Webb" <purslow@ca.inter.net>:
>
> > Thanks for all the advice so far. Here is the list of proposed pieces :
> >
> > CPU : AMD Bulldozer X4 FX-4170 4-Core 4,2 GHz 8 MB : 149.99 (CAD)
> > Mobo : Asus M5A97 AM3+ DDR3 2133 6xSATA3 2xUSB3 USB2 : 99.99
> > Memory : Kingston ValueRAM 4 GB DDR3 1333 MHz CL9 : 24.99
> > Graphix : Asus GT520-1GD3-CSM Nv GT520 810 MHz 1 GB : 54.99
> > SSD : Kingston HyperX 3K SATA3 120 GB 6 Gb/s : 149.99
> > HDD : Seagate Barracuda SATA3 500 GB 16 MB 6 Gb/s : 69.99
> > Case : Canada Computer NA-680 ATX Tower 450 W W/CR : 42.99
> > subtotal : 592.93
> > tax : 77.08
> > total : 670.01
> >
> > CPU : the principal point made seemed to be that raw speed is central;
> > I'm suspicious that > 4 cores, chip design becomes vital to performance
> > & I doubt if I'm going to need more cores; this is the fastest CPU in
> > sight.
> >
> > Mobo : I've always bought Asus.
> >
> > Memory : I already have 1 of these in another machine,
> > so I'll end up with 8 GB after transfering it ; there's no point
> > in buying faster memory, as it will run at the lower speed.
> >
> > Graphics : I prefer to go with Nvidia on a separate card :
> > my suspicion is that Intel's built-in GPU takes space on the die
> > & I had a bad experience with drivers when I tried to use it
> > on a machine I built in 2007 (I had to add an Nvidia card in the end).
> >
> > SSD : I'll use this for everything needing regular access
> > & esp anything Portage (grin).
> >
> > HDD : This is far larger than I'll need in the foreseeable future,
> > but it will allow me to set up an incremental Rsync back-up.
> >
> > Case : I assume 450 W is adequate; the 2007 PSU has 500 W .
> >
> > I will also transfer a CD/DVD drive from another machine.
> >
> > All pieces are in good supply at Canada Computers in downtown Toronto,
> > which suggests they are popular with other customers.
> >
> > Comments are as welcome as ever (big smile).
> >
> > --
> > ========================,,======================== ====================
> > SUPPORT ___________//___, Philip Webb
> > ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto
> > TRANSIT `-O----------O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
> >
> >
> >

--
IPv6 PPPoE customized OpenWRT firmware for:
tp-link wr740n,wr1043nd,mr3420,mr11u,wr703n
http://www.ip6.ro

Adam Carter 08-01-2012 05:53 AM

new machine : proposed design
 
>> CPU : AMD Bulldozer X4 FX-4170 4-Core 4,2 GHz 8 MB : 149.99 (CAD)

I don't know your use case, but the only thing that is CPU intensive
for me is software compilation, and since that uses more cores nicely,
i'd go an 8150 to get 8 cores.

>> Case : Canada Computer NA-680 ATX Tower 450 W W/CR : 42.99

IMO power supplies are the least reliable bit of a PC so go for a
quality one. I had an Antec that didn't last as long as it should, so
I bought a Corsair last time. Of course making a decision on a sample
size of one is not credible...

Dale 08-01-2012 06:12 AM

new machine : proposed design
 
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>
> Eithout looking it up.... With that prize the case is crap. The psu
> even more so. And Kingston....ugh... noname quality....
>
> Quoting will be shot, blame phone.
>
>
<< SNIPPED out nasty phone quote >>

I don't tend to say much on case other than making sure it has good air
flow. The "looks" of one is in the eye of the beholder. Power supply,
I would look at these:

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=589708

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=458204

That talks about P/S's and which are known to be good and such. I think
it lists some to avoid to. I can't get them to come up right now. My
rig is not to far from yours. Mine pulls about 200 watts with the
monitor turned off. I still have the DSL modem, router and such turned
on tho and the rig is at idle. My drives are regular drives, no SSD
thingys, yet. Your wattage may be OK but if you add to much to it, it
may not be big enough. Just a thought.

I have used Kingston for years. I have never had trouble with them.

One last thing, make sure the mobo, CPU and memory match up. May not be
a bad idea to check the ASUS website to see if they list this ram just
in case. Gigabyte has this and I checked mine before I bought the
parts. Nothing worse than getting the ram and realizing they are the
wrong type.

Post back and let us know if lightning bolts come out of it. o_O

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Volker Armin Hemmann 08-01-2012 05:57 PM

new machine : proposed design
 
Am Mittwoch, 1. August 2012, 08:33:39 schrieb Daniel Petre:
> On Wed, Aug 01, 2012 at 07:25:10AM +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > Eithout looking it up.... With that prize the case is crap. The psu even
> > more so. And Kingston....ugh... noname quality....
>
> actually ValueRam is pretty decent, i ran ddr2 modules in some old machines
> without problems in the last years, also i remember using HyperX ddr2 on
> non *nix computers flawless in office work.


sadly: no. Kingston is unable to program SPDeeproms correctly and with every
ValueRam stick you will get another type of chips. Oh - and their quality
checks suck.

Kingston is way too expensive for their low quality products. You can just buy
some cheapo 'almost' noname brand and get better results.

And the SSD - seriously? Get OCZ or Samsung. Kingston is just rebranding one
of those. Just with lesser probability of bug fixing firmware updates and much
worse customer support.

--
#163933

Philip Webb 08-01-2012 08:33 PM

new machine : proposed design
 
120801 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> Kingston is way too expensive for their low quality products.
> You can just buy some cheapo 'almost' noname brand and get better results.

At my regular store (no, I'm not schlepping all over town), I see :

AMD Entertainment 4 GB DDR3 1600 MHz CL9 Optimized for AMD : 24.99

They have 8 in stock, which suggests they're popular with customers.
I'm sceptical re 'optimized for AMD', but it is the same manufacturer.
This is 1600 MHz a/a the Kingston, which is 1330 MHz ,
but I want to re-use a stick I already own from another machine
which is also a Kingston 4 GB 1330 MHz , so I won't be using the speed.
I've never had a problem with Kingston memory nor with their USB sticks,
so I need a bit more convincing (smile).

> And the SSD - seriously ? Get OCZ or Samsung:
> Kingston is just rebranding one of those.

There are no Samsung SSDs available at the store (do they make them ? ).
However, OCZ does look very competitive (thanks for this bit of advice):

OCZ Vertex3 240 GB SATA3 6 GB/s R 550 MB/s W 525 MB/s : 209.99
OCZ Vertex4 128 GB SATA3 6 GB/s R 560 MB/s W 430 MB/s : 124.99
OCZ Vertex3 120 GB SATA3 6 GB/s R 550 MB/s W 500 MB/s : 119.99
OCZ Agility3 120 GB SATA3 6 GB/s R 525 MB/s W 500 MB/s : 99.99

So I can pay CAD 60 more & get twice the storage
or save CAD 25 - 50 & get the same storage.
I don't suppose the R/W variations make much difference in everyday use
(the Kingston I listed is R 555 W 510 : in the same ballpark).
Moreover, all of them are 10+ in stock, again suggesting popularity.

So you've got my attention (grin). Any further comments by VAH or others ?

--
========================,,======================== ====================
SUPPORT ___________//___, Philip Webb
ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT `-O----------O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Mark Knecht 08-01-2012 08:55 PM

new machine : proposed design
 
On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 8:47 PM, Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:
> Thanks for all the advice so far. Here is the list of proposed pieces :
>
> CPU : AMD Bulldozer X4 FX-4170 4-Core 4,2 GHz 8 MB : 149.99 (CAD)
> Mobo : Asus M5A97 AM3+ DDR3 2133 6xSATA3 2xUSB3 USB2 : 99.99
> Memory : Kingston ValueRAM 4 GB DDR3 1333 MHz CL9 : 24.99
> Graphix : Asus GT520-1GD3-CSM Nv GT520 810 MHz 1 GB : 54.99
> SSD : Kingston HyperX 3K SATA3 120 GB 6 Gb/s : 149.99
> HDD : Seagate Barracuda SATA3 500 GB 16 MB 6 Gb/s : 69.99
> Case : Canada Computer NA-680 ATX Tower 450 W W/CR : 42.99
> subtotal : 592.93
> tax : 77.08
> total : 670.01
>
> CPU : the principal point made seemed to be that raw speed is central;
> I'm suspicious that > 4 cores, chip design becomes vital to performance
> & I doubt if I'm going to need more cores; this is the fastest CPU in sight.
>
> Mobo : I've always bought Asus.
>
> Memory : I already have 1 of these in another machine,
> so I'll end up with 8 GB after transfering it ; there's no point
> in buying faster memory, as it will run at the lower speed.
>
> Graphics : I prefer to go with Nvidia on a separate card :
> my suspicion is that Intel's built-in GPU takes space on the die
> & I had a bad experience with drivers when I tried to use it
> on a machine I built in 2007 (I had to add an Nvidia card in the end).
>
> SSD : I'll use this for everything needing regular access
> & esp anything Portage (grin).
>
> HDD : This is far larger than I'll need in the foreseeable future,
> but it will allow me to set up an incremental Rsync back-up.
>
> Case : I assume 450 W is adequate; the 2007 PSU has 500 W .
>
> I will also transfer a CD/DVD drive from another machine.
>
> All pieces are in good supply at Canada Computers in downtown Toronto,
> which suggests they are popular with other customers.
>
> Comments are as welcome as ever (big smile).
>
> --
> ========================,,======================== ====================
> SUPPORT ___________//___, Philip Webb
> ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto
> TRANSIT `-O----------O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
>
>

Ok, so I get that you're on a budget (who isn't these days!) and so
you're proposing to reuse some memory from another box, but I think
for a nice new processor you'd do better to spend a few bucks more
and buy a new 8GB DRAM set for about $80 instead of reusing the older
one. This would allow you to get another 8GB later when you decide you
want it. (and you will!) ;-)

Anyway, it's an additional $45 which is about 8% of the machine cost.

I attach a link to Crucial's page for that motherboard. Crucial stuff
you can usually get through Amazon so no running around. Crucial has
replaced memory 2 or 3 times for me no charge. Good company.

Good luck,
Mark

http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=M5A97&Cat=RAM

Dale 08-01-2012 08:57 PM

new machine : proposed design
 
Philip Webb wrote:
> 120801 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>> Kingston is way too expensive for their low quality products.
>> You can just buy some cheapo 'almost' noname brand and get better results.
> At my regular store (no, I'm not schlepping all over town), I see :
>
> AMD Entertainment 4 GB DDR3 1600 MHz CL9 Optimized for AMD : 24.99
>
> They have 8 in stock, which suggests they're popular with customers.
> I'm sceptical re 'optimized for AMD', but it is the same manufacturer.
> This is 1600 MHz a/a the Kingston, which is 1330 MHz ,
> but I want to re-use a stick I already own from another machine
> which is also a Kingston 4 GB 1330 MHz , so I won't be using the speed.
> I've never had a problem with Kingston memory nor with their USB sticks,
> so I need a bit more convincing (smile).
>
>

Kingston should work fine. I been using them for years, one build was
built back in 2003 and it still runs, although slowly by todays
standards. ;-) I have also used Kingston in other people's rigs for
upgrades and they are working fine too.

I think memory is like hard drives, one or two people have something go
wrong and they have to be all bad for everyone. It's one reason I hate
asking a hard drive question. Someone always chimes up that they had
one fail many years ago so it just has to be bad. lol

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Volker Armin Hemmann 08-02-2012 04:25 PM

new machine : proposed design
 
Am Mittwoch, 1. August 2012, 15:57:25 schrieb Dale:
>
> I think memory is like hard drives, one or two people have something go
> wrong and they have to be all bad for everyone.

no, it is like: no correct SPD rom ever. Just because most mobos work around
it, is not an excuse.
Or like an entire batch where the sticker machine crushed the chips beneath it
- and Kingston 'quality control' did not catch it.

Heise had lots of fun with them (and those high prized 'overclocker'
sticks....)

If you want quality: buy something else.
If you are concerned about the prize: seriously, buy something else.


--
#163933


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