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Old 08-01-2012, 05:04 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default Key installer functionality for F18: rescue mode, text/serial console mode

On 08/01/2012 08:56 AM, "Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson" wrote:

This however is something that worries me more.


One can get a basic shell to do things with by booting any boot media
that uses dracut and use "rd.break" as a option. You'll get a shell
before it switches to the runtime root, and from there you can play with
your filesystems and do whatever you need to do.


Not the greatest, but we're not leaving people without options.

--
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom▓ is a feature!

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Old 08-01-2012, 07:29 PM
Adam Williamson
 
Default Key installer functionality for F18: rescue mode, text/serial console mode

On Wed, 2012-08-01 at 11:01 -0400, Chris Lumens wrote:
> > on text install: apparently it's now the plan that a basic text mode
> > will be included in f18 and may even make Alpha. As long as that's a
> > commitment then that should work out fine and is no longer a worry.
>
> The alpha change deadline is August 14, so I can't really see that
> happening. Even more critically, the string freeze deadline is the same
> day.
>
> I'm not willing to commit to that, no matter how hard Martin and Jesse
> work. I just don't think there's enough time. I suppose beta is
> possible given it being a month later, but then people are just going to
> complain about major things being done after the feature freeze.

To be clear, I'm mainly worried about it getting in for Final. I think
we can live without it showing up at Alpha.

> > on rescue mode: we would like to see a roughly functional equivalent
> > replacement for rescue mode present in f18, with considerable
> > flexibility as to the exact form.
>
> I don't think rescue mode is too difficult to do. We've just not worked
> on it, barely talked about it, and not put anyone on the task. It's not
> alpha criteria so I haven't been especially worried about it.

It's obviously most important to focus on stuff that's in the Alpha
criteria for Alpha. To be clear, this thread is about the whole cycle,
not just Alpha - obviously we'd like to have stuff in as early as
possible as we can get more testing done that way, but the _main_
concern is not to be lacking too many features at Final.

> > If anaconda team can commit to a rescue mode replacement for f18 final
> > at least, that'd be great. thanks. Also, if anyone's aware of any other
> > major functionality that might go away with newUI - besides what's
> > already been discussed or called out on the feature page - please let us
> > know. thanks!
>
> Advanced storage filtering's not going to be there for F18 either.

Yeah, I think that one was mentioned on the feature page, so it's been
implicitly accepted by FESCo already...
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
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http://www.happyassassin.net

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Old 08-01-2012, 07:35 PM
Adam Williamson
 
Default Key installer functionality for F18: rescue mode, text/serial console mode

On Wed, 2012-08-01 at 15:56 +0000, "Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson" wrote:

> > I think we can probably do rescue mode, we just need to look at it and
> > it won't be for alpha.
>
> This however is something that worries me more.

Can you explain in more detail your concerns about rescue mode? It might
help the discussion. A key perspective on rescue mode is that it
doesn't, in an ultimate analysis, _do_ very much: basically it brings up
the network, mounts the installed system partitions, and gives you a
shell. Simple dracut 'rd.break' mode gives you two out of three already
(a rescue shell and the installed system partitions mounted). One angle
there is that it should actually be fairly trivial to implement a newUI
and/or dracut-based 'rescue mode' replacement, but another angle is that
losing rescue mode isn't really all that terrible; it sounds impressive,
but it really does comparatively little and there are all sorts of ways
to essentially achieve the same thing (boot a live image, whether a
Fedora one or a rescue-specific live image; boot to anaconda and use the
VT it presents; use rd.break on the 'broken' installation...)

So it would help to direct the discussion if those who are worried about
losing rescue mode define more precisely exactly what they feel we lose
by dropping it. That'll help us in determining exactly what is needed to
compensate for it.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
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Old 08-01-2012, 09:05 PM
Chris Lumens
 
Default Key installer functionality for F18: rescue mode, text/serial console mode

> > I'm not willing to commit to that, no matter how hard Martin and Jesse
> > work. I just don't think there's enough time. I suppose beta is
> > possible given it being a month later, but then people are just going to
> > complain about major things being done after the feature freeze.
>
> To be clear, I'm mainly worried about it getting in for Final. I think
> we can live without it showing up at Alpha.

Well, you can rest easy now because it took all of a couple hours to fix
up and I just pushed it. Note that I still think we need a nicer rescue
mode than we've got right now (especially given that it still uses newt,
which we are trying hard to wipe from the earth). But this should take
care of most people's needs for now.

- Chris

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Old 08-02-2012, 12:35 AM
Jon Stanley
 
Default Key installer functionality for F18: rescue mode, text/serial console mode

On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 8:03 PM, "Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson"
<johannbg@gmail.com> wrote:

> There are couple of issues that I'm aware of and will be discussing with
> Harald which I personally would like to see resolved before we use this as a
> replacement either altogether or until a noob friendly gui mode is
> implemented.

There never *was* a n00b friendly mode for rescue. You've always had
to know the secret incantation to put on the cmdline to boot anaconda.
Speaking as a real, actual enterprise user, I've used anaconda rescue
mode exactly.....ZERO times in the last year. If I have a system that
for whatever reason won't boot, even in current RHEL, I find it *much*
easier to just boot with init=/bin/bash and go about fixing things.

In newer Fedora, this becomes even easier with rd.break providing even
more functionality. My personal view on rescue mode, even if it were
to be completely absent from F18, would be "oh well".

$0.02
-Jon

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Old 08-02-2012, 09:01 AM
"Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson"
 
Default Key installer functionality for F18: rescue mode, text/serial console mode

On 08/02/2012 12:35 AM, Jon Stanley wrote:

On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 8:03 PM, "Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson"
<johannbg@gmail.com> wrote:


There are couple of issues that I'm aware of and will be discussing with
Harald which I personally would like to see resolved before we use this as a
replacement either altogether or until a noob friendly gui mode is
implemented.

There never *was* a n00b friendly mode for rescue.


That just an utter and total bullshit as limited as it might be it still
*lead* and *help* the users to setup their system for rescue.



You've always had
to know the secret incantation to put on the cmdline to boot anaconda.
Speaking as a real, actual enterprise user,


Are you claiming that I ain't an real actual enterprise user?

Care to share your difference between fake ones and real ones?


I've used anaconda rescue
mode exactly.....ZERO times in the last year. If I have a system that
for whatever reason won't boot, even in current RHEL, I find it *much*
easier to just boot with init=/bin/bash and go about fixing things.


I know a lot of sysadmin that use it and have used it in the past year(s).


In newer Fedora, this becomes even easier with rd.break providing even
more functionality.


Now what more functionality is that exactly that it provides?


My personal view on rescue mode, even if it were
to be completely absent from F18, would be "oh well".


I'm oh well with "text mode" and you are oh well with "rescue mode" I
guess our priorities differ.


JBG

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Old 08-02-2012, 09:03 AM
"Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson"
 
Default Key installer functionality for F18: rescue mode, text/serial console mode

On 08/02/2012 01:58 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:

If an additional Advanced menu item were to be added, would it be based on systemd's emergency.target, or rd.break?


rd.break systemd's targets are irrelevant here.

JBG

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Old 08-02-2012, 02:26 PM
Peter Jones
 
Default Key installer functionality for F18: rescue mode, text/serial console mode

On Thu, 2012-08-02 at 09:01 +0000, "Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson" wrote:
> On 08/02/2012 12:35 AM, Jon Stanley wrote:

> > You've always had
> > to know the secret incantation to put on the cmdline to boot anaconda.
> > Speaking as a real, actual enterprise user,
>
> Are you claiming that I ain't an real actual enterprise user?
>
> Care to share your difference between fake ones and real ones?

I'm pretty sure he was only talking about himself. There's no need to
be offended.

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Old 08-02-2012, 02:54 PM
Chris Lumens
 
Default Key installer functionality for F18: rescue mode, text/serial console mode

> That just an utter and total bullshit as limited as it might be it
> still *lead* and *help* the users to setup their system for rescue.

Keep this kind of language off this list.

- Chris

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Old 08-02-2012, 04:24 PM
"Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson"
 
Default Key installer functionality for F18: rescue mode, text/serial console mode

On 08/02/2012 02:54 PM, Chris Lumens
wrote:




That just an utter and total bullshit as limited as it might be it
> still *lead* and *help* the users to setup their system for rescue.


Keep this kind of language off this list.




Do you prefer bullocks or nonsense so I can be sure to use the
political correct term for either British or American English
because I can say without a shadow of doubt what he was claiming
there certainly was not true because on numerous occasions I have
seen technology challenge people manage to stumple their way through
it chroot into their partitions and clean up the disk after they
accidentally had filled it up which by the way is probably one of if
not the most use case scenario people are using Anaconda's rescue
mode to do so claiming that in Anaconda "There never *was* a n00b friendly mode for
rescue" is from pov and experience nonsense.



In any case note taken I'll try to be more subtle next time...



JBG



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