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-   -   new machine : (1) which CPU ? (http://www.linux-archive.org/gentoo-user/685497-new-machine-1-cpu.html)

Philip Webb 07-20-2012 07:24 AM

new machine : (1) which CPU ?
 
I plan to build a new machine in the next few months:
it wb for regular desktop use, but performance is as important as price.

A quick look at what was available in April suggested
an Intel Ivy Bridge i7 ( 22 nm ) ; Phoronix said it works with Kernel 3.2
+ an Intel Z77 mobo (I usually buy ASUS) & that power/watt was excellent.

However, I'm quite willing to look at AMD or consider waiting a bit
till something newer from Intel reaches the regular market.
My current box dates from 2007 & my stand-by from 2002 :
the former has an Intel Core2 Duo, the latter an AMD Athlon XP 2500+ .

I don't want to pay a premium price for a bleeding-edge device
which wb available at a more normal price a few months later.
I wb buying it from the local store (Canada Computers), not on-line.

Does anyone have thoughts or advice ?

--
========================,,======================== ====================
SUPPORT ___________//___, Philip Webb
ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT `-O----------O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

07-20-2012 11:40 AM

new machine : (1) which CPU ?
 
Hello!

On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 03:24:42 -0400
Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:

> I plan to build a new machine in the next few months:
> it wb for regular desktop use, but performance is as important as
> price.
>
> A quick look at what was available in April suggested
> an Intel Ivy Bridge i7 ( 22 nm ) ; Phoronix said it works with Kernel
> 3.2
> + an Intel Z77 mobo (I usually buy ASUS) & that power/watt was
> excellent.
>
If you are considering to buy an Intel CPU, I'd recommend you to pay
some attention to such Intel' technologies as this one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge#Intel_Insider_and_remote-control
because it doesn't looks like an advantage to the end user, but rather
as a security (or privacy) hole in one's system.


> However, I'm quite willing to look at AMD or consider waiting a bit
> till something newer from Intel reaches the regular market.
Speaking of AMD processors, I remember one of my friends told that
their A10-series a good. I didn't study any details of it, but if you
are interested, you can check them out as well.

> My current box dates from 2007 & my stand-by from 2002 :
> the former has an Intel Core2 Duo, the latter an AMD Athlon XP 2500+ .
>
> I don't want to pay a premium price for a bleeding-edge device
> which wb available at a more normal price a few months later.
> I wb buying it from the local store (Canada Computers), not on-line.
>
> Does anyone have thoughts or advice ?
>

Regards,
Vladimir

-----
<v_2e@ukr.net>

Dale 07-20-2012 12:06 PM

new machine : (1) which CPU ?
 
v_2e@ukr.net wrote:
> Hello!
>
> On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 03:24:42 -0400
> Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:
>
>
>> However, I'm quite willing to look at AMD or consider waiting a bit
>> till something newer from Intel reaches the regular market.
> Speaking of AMD processors, I remember one of my friends told that
> their A10-series a good. I didn't study any details of it, but if you
> are interested, you can check them out as well.
>
> Regards, Vladimir ----- <v_2e@ukr.net>

I built my rig with a AMD CPU and I like it. I prefer AMD since it has
a lot of bang for less bucks. Mine is this one:

AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 955 Processor

I went from 12 to 14 hours building LOo on my older AMD 2500+ single
core to about a hour or so on my new rig.

One thing I have learned over the years when money is tight. Always buy
parts that are about 2 to 3 notches below the latest release. My
current CPU is 3.2Ghz which is about two notches below the fastest they
had at the time. I think the fastest was 3.4Ghz or something. I saved
a lot of money but most likely wouldn't be able to see the difference in
speed. You can do the same for mobos and such too.

Also, with Linux, older hardware has more stable drivers than newer
stuff. If you buy a brand new mobo with all new chipsets, you can run
into stability issues until the drivers get sorted out. If you buy one
that has been out a year or so, you have a MUCH better chance of getting
good stable drivers.

As always, your mileage may vary.

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Michael Mol 07-20-2012 12:13 PM

new machine : (1) which CPU ?
 
On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 7:40 AM, <v_2e@ukr.net> wrote:
> Hello!
>
> On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 03:24:42 -0400
> Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:
>
>> I plan to build a new machine in the next few months:
>> it wb for regular desktop use, but performance is as important as
>> price.
>>
>> A quick look at what was available in April suggested
>> an Intel Ivy Bridge i7 ( 22 nm ) ; Phoronix said it works with Kernel
>> 3.2
>> + an Intel Z77 mobo (I usually buy ASUS) & that power/watt was
>> excellent.
>>
> If you are considering to buy an Intel CPU, I'd recommend you to pay
> some attention to such Intel' technologies as this one:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge#Intel_Insider_and_remote-control
> because it doesn't looks like an advantage to the end user, but rather
> as a security (or privacy) hole in one's system.

We went through this on this list a couple months ago.

That tech has been part of business-grade laptops and workstations for
a while. It's intended as a tool for a corporate IT department, not
the direct user of the machine.

I'm not saying it's something I'd necessarily like to have on my
personal devices, just that it's not exactly new.
--
:wq

Florian Philipp 07-20-2012 12:18 PM

new machine : (1) which CPU ?
 
Am 20.07.2012 14:06, schrieb Dale:
>
> v_2e@ukr.net wrote:
>> Hello!
>>
>> On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 03:24:42 -0400
>> Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> However, I'm quite willing to look at AMD or consider waiting a bit
>>> till something newer from Intel reaches the regular market.
>> Speaking of AMD processors, I remember one of my friends told that
>> their A10-series a good. I didn't study any details of it, but if you
>> are interested, you can check them out as well.
>>
>> Regards, Vladimir ----- <v_2e@ukr.net>
>
> I built my rig with a AMD CPU and I like it. I prefer AMD since it has
> a lot of bang for less bucks. Mine is this one:
>
> AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 955 Processor
>
> I went from 12 to 14 hours building LOo on my older AMD 2500+ single
> core to about a hour or so on my new rig.
>
> One thing I have learned over the years when money is tight. Always buy
> parts that are about 2 to 3 notches below the latest release. My
> current CPU is 3.2Ghz which is about two notches below the fastest they
> had at the time. I think the fastest was 3.4Ghz or something. I saved
> a lot of money but most likely wouldn't be able to see the difference in
> speed. You can do the same for mobos and such too.
>
> Also, with Linux, older hardware has more stable drivers than newer
> stuff. If you buy a brand new mobo with all new chipsets, you can run
> into stability issues until the drivers get sorted out. If you buy one
> that has been out a year or so, you have a MUCH better chance of getting
> good stable drivers.
>
> As always, your mileage may vary.
>
> Dale
>
> :-) :-)
>

+1 for AMD, especially if you consider integrated GPUs. If you want to
be sure you get a good deal, look for FLOPS per Dollar charts or similar
benchmarks. For example this [1].

[1] http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_value_available.html

Regards,
Florian Philipp

Dale 07-20-2012 05:44 PM

new machine : (1) which CPU ?
 
OP,

If you need help with this, i'd be glad to help you pick parts for your
build. The biggest thing is to make sure things work together. If the
mobo only has SATA drive connectors, a IDE hard drive will not work.
You have to make sure the memory will work with the mobo you have picked
too. Mobo, CPU and memory certainly are critical to work together.

If you want help, let me know. I'm sure others will chime in too.

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Mick 07-20-2012 11:24 PM

new machine : (1) which CPU ?
 
On Friday 20 Jul 2012 13:13:41 Michael Mol wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 7:40 AM, <v_2e@ukr.net> wrote:
> > Hello!
> >
> > On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 03:24:42 -0400
> >
> > Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:
> >> I plan to build a new machine in the next few months:
> >> it wb for regular desktop use, but performance is as important as
> >> price.
> >>
> >> A quick look at what was available in April suggested
> >> an Intel Ivy Bridge i7 ( 22 nm ) ; Phoronix said it works with Kernel
> >> 3.2
> >> + an Intel Z77 mobo (I usually buy ASUS) & that power/watt was
> >> excellent.
> >>
> > If you are considering to buy an Intel CPU, I'd recommend you to pay
> >
> > some attention to such Intel' technologies as this one:
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge#Intel_Insider_and_remote-contr
> > ol because it doesn't looks like an advantage to the end user, but rather
> > as a security (or privacy) hole in one's system.
>
> We went through this on this list a couple months ago.
>
> That tech has been part of business-grade laptops and workstations for
> a while. It's intended as a tool for a corporate IT department, not
> the direct user of the machine.
>
> I'm not saying it's something I'd necessarily like to have on my
> personal devices, just that it's not exactly new.

I didn't know my laptop came with this <aheam> 'Intel rootkit' feature until I
posted here a few weeks ago. I haven't done any research on this, but found
these spooky pages:

http://communities.intel.com/community/vproexpert/blog/2012/01/19/configuring-
intel-vpro-with-linux-in-user-control-mode

http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/download-the-latest-intel-amt-open-
source-drivers/

I'm not sure how vulnerable my machine may be as supplied by Dell - I assume
that unless the system is enabled first no out-of-band attempts will work.
--
Regards,
Mick

Philip Webb 07-21-2012 01:27 AM

new machine : (1) which CPU ?
 
120720 Dale wrote to me as OP:
> If you need help with this, i'd be glad to help you pick parts
> for your build. The biggest thing is to make sure things work together.

Thanks for the offer & the other advice from everyone so far.
I built machines successfully in 2000 2003 2007
& am still using the last 2 , tho' the 2007 mobo failed (ASUS)
& its replacement is showing minor bugs (glad I got in-store warranty).
Therefore, I'm not looking for basic advice how to put a box together.

I'm also willing to pay for a fast upto-date CPU,
but not of course whatever came out just last week,
which will soon drop in price & will still need some bugs sorting out.
I don't have to choose between a good CPU & a good SSD
& expect to get a competitive price from Canada Computers, as before.

Any further thoughts re Intel vs AMD wb very welcome.

--
========================,,======================== ====================
SUPPORT ___________//___, Philip Webb
ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT `-O----------O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Alecks Gates 07-21-2012 01:49 AM

new machine : (1) which CPU ?
 
On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:
> 120720 Dale wrote to me as OP:
>> If you need help with this, i'd be glad to help you pick parts
>> for your build. The biggest thing is to make sure things work together.
>
> Thanks for the offer & the other advice from everyone so far.
> I built machines successfully in 2000 2003 2007
> & am still using the last 2 , tho' the 2007 mobo failed (ASUS)
> & its replacement is showing minor bugs (glad I got in-store warranty).
> Therefore, I'm not looking for basic advice how to put a box together.
>
> I'm also willing to pay for a fast upto-date CPU,
> but not of course whatever came out just last week,
> which will soon drop in price & will still need some bugs sorting out.
> I don't have to choose between a good CPU & a good SSD
> & expect to get a competitive price from Canada Computers, as before.
>
> Any further thoughts re Intel vs AMD wb very welcome.
>
> --
> ========================,,======================== ====================
> SUPPORT ___________//___, Philip Webb
> ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto
> TRANSIT `-O----------O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
>
>

You'd definitely get more bang for your buck out of AMD, especially
with Gentoo. It might even be worth waiting for AMD's piledriver-core
CPUs depending on how much of an improvement they actually give,
though I'm not sure when those are supposed to be out. And paying for
a top-of-the-line AMD CPU is still much cheaper than Intel.

This is a very broad generalization of course, but a lot of it comes
down to multi-threaded (lean towards AMD) vs single-threaded (lean
towards Intel). Honestly I don't think you'd notice the difference
anyway on a general desktop. I'd pick AMD, and very likely one of
their APUs if you don't need intense graphics, as they seem to be able
to handle most things well and even some light gaming.

Dale 07-21-2012 02:15 AM

new machine : (1) which CPU ?
 
Alecks Gates wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Philip Webb <purslow@ca.inter.net> wrote:
>> 120720 Dale wrote to me as OP:
>>> If you need help with this, i'd be glad to help you pick parts
>>> for your build. The biggest thing is to make sure things work together.
>> Thanks for the offer & the other advice from everyone so far.
>> I built machines successfully in 2000 2003 2007
>> & am still using the last 2 , tho' the 2007 mobo failed (ASUS)
>> & its replacement is showing minor bugs (glad I got in-store warranty).
>> Therefore, I'm not looking for basic advice how to put a box together.
>>
>> I'm also willing to pay for a fast upto-date CPU,
>> but not of course whatever came out just last week,
>> which will soon drop in price & will still need some bugs sorting out.
>> I don't have to choose between a good CPU & a good SSD
>> & expect to get a competitive price from Canada Computers, as before.
>>
>> Any further thoughts re Intel vs AMD wb very welcome.
>>
>> --
>> ========================,,======================== ====================
>> SUPPORT ___________//___, Philip Webb
>> ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto
>> TRANSIT `-O----------O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
>>
>>
> You'd definitely get more bang for your buck out of AMD, especially
> with Gentoo. It might even be worth waiting for AMD's piledriver-core
> CPUs depending on how much of an improvement they actually give,
> though I'm not sure when those are supposed to be out. And paying for
> a top-of-the-line AMD CPU is still much cheaper than Intel.
>
> This is a very broad generalization of course, but a lot of it comes
> down to multi-threaded (lean towards AMD) vs single-threaded (lean
> towards Intel). Honestly I don't think you'd notice the difference
> anyway on a general desktop. I'd pick AMD, and very likely one of
> their APUs if you don't need intense graphics, as they seem to be able
> to handle most things well and even some light gaming.
>
>

I did some checking when I built my rig. If I recall correctly, just a
comparable Intel CPU would have cost as much as my AMD CPU *and* the
mobo. After you put down some bucks for the CPU, you still have to buy
a mobo which seem pricey to me as well. Between those two parts, you
can spend a lot of money for Intel based stuff.

Seriously, for desktop use and budget, go with AMD. Spend the money you
save on your SSD or a really nice video card. After all, the video card
is what you really see anyway.

I'm not saying Intel is bad but AMD is a great CPU and much cheaper.

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!


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