On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 7:10 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> AFAIK, you should be fine renaming bzImage to vmlinuz. (Note the z.
>> It's vmlinuz, not vmlinux")
>>
>
> Well that fixed one thing already. lol I bet I would have named that
> wrong. ;-)
>
> vmlinuz. Weird. They did that to confuse me didn't they. :/
>
> Dale

I continue to call them things like bzImage-3.3.8-gentoo and the like,
however vmlinuz has been around forever and a day...

- Mark

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vmlinuz

On 2012-06-30, Peter Humphrey <peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:
> On Friday 29 June 2012 21:46:20 Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> Things have been going steadily downhill since the days of V7 on a
>> PDP-11 with 256K words of RAM, a 20MB hard drive and uucp via dial-up
>> modems for "networking". Real programmers didn't _need_ more that
>> 64k of text and 64k data to get the job done.
>
> Sorry, but that's just bloat. When I joined the software development
> effort on the national grid control system in 1980 (I was the third of
> three) we had two Ferranti Argus 500 computers, one on-line and one
> standby, each with 32KB RAM (twice as much as the same machines had at
> the newly commissioning AGR power stations)

Touche!

> The displays were graphic stroke writers, as used in submarines and
> other warships - none of that nasty raster technology. I think the
> display drivers were more complex than the CPUs - all that D-A
> conversion of multiple values at once. Can you imagine X and Y
> amplifiers to drive a spot in a circle - and meet up?

That's actually pretty trivial: Feed a sine wave into X and cosine
into Y. AC amplitude controls size, DC offsets control position.
Hint: cosine is just sine phase shifted by 90 degrees, so you can do
that with a single resistor and capacitor.

> Then a display full of them.

Been there, done that.

It was one of the standard junior-level homework lab assignements when
I was in College back around 1980: design, build, and demonstrate a
circuit that would display the contents of a 2716 EPROM (in binary) on
an X-Y vector display (e.g. oscilloscope). It's not as hard as you
might think. All it takes is a a counter, a half-dozen gates, and
about three op-amps. It fit on one of these proto-boards:

http://www.busboard.us/photos/BPS-IMG-BB830.jpg

IIRC, it displayed one byte per line (eight '1' or '0' characters),
eight bytes per "page". It used a dip-switch to select what "page"
from the EPROM to display. Expanding the 8x8 display to something
like 128x64 would just require slightly longer counters.

--
Grant

Dale writes:

> Neil Bothwick wrote:

> > Seriously though, why not use make install? That way you know the
> > right files get copied and given the expected names.
>
> Because I name my kernel and config the same thing. I also don't like
> the way it does that link thingy it does. It seems to expect to keep
> only two kernels around and I'm real bad to have more than that,
> sometimes way more than that. Plus, if I do it myself, I know what I am
> doing. If I use make install, I don't know if something was changed in
> how it does it.
>
> It's just me being me. lol

No, me too. In my history of using Linux, I very often had trouble with
new kernels. When I had an NVidia graphics card, that often caused
trouble. Nowadays it's ISDN sometimes.

The fact that I build a new kernel does not necessarily mean that I want
to boot it yet. And I want to keep old kernels around, several, not only
the last one. I do not reboot often, so sometimes multiple kernel versions
have been installed since the last reboot. I would not want my current
kernel to have vanished, just in case I will need it again when the new
ones do not work. With kernel >= 3.4.3 I had two weird panics in the last
two weeks, I am still using it, but maybe I will need 3.3.5 again, which
would be the sixth-newest one. And I think that maybe hibernation and
ISDN used to work longer ago, maybe I will give the last 2.6 kernel a try
again.

So I use genkernel to build and install new kernels, and modify grub.conf
manually to add this kernel to the menu. The .config is also being copied
to the boot partition, using a similar name as the kernel and the
initramfs.

I'll continue to use the old Grub, as it's working fine for me. I
understand it very well, probably because there is not much to
understand. Ususally it only takes root (hd0,0) and setup (hd0) commands
to install, and the config file is very easy to edit.

I had some painful experiences with Grub2 on Ubuntu, and did not
understand for a while what to do. There's too much automagic involved,
scripts creating the actual grub.cfg file. Config files in /etc/grub.d
and /etc/default/grub. There's grub-install, grub-setup, update-grub, and
what else. The Grub menu is shown only if there are multiple operating
systems installed, it took me quite a while to figure out how to make it
appear at all.

Gentoo is a distro for experts they say, but for me it seems to be
actually easier than other distros like Ubuntu which are supposed to be
easy. Yes, they are, but only when you do standard things. If your setup
is somewhat special, it's actually harder to figure out what is necessary
to do, at least that's my experience.

Wonko

On Saturday 30 June 2012 15:52:13 Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2012-06-30, Peter Humphrey <peter@humphrey.ukfsn.org> wrote:
> > The displays were graphic stroke writers, as used in submarines and
> > other warships - none of that nasty raster technology. I think the
> > display drivers were more complex than the CPUs - all that D-A
> > conversion of multiple values at once. Can you imagine X and Y
> > amplifiers to drive a spot in a circle - and meet up?
>
> That's actually pretty trivial: Feed a sine wave into X and cosine
> into Y. AC amplitude controls size, DC offsets control position.
> Hint: cosine is just sine phase shifted by 90 degrees, so you can do
> that with a single resistor and capacitor.

Hmm. Hadn't thought of doing it that way. Neat.

> > Then a display full of them.
>
> Been there, done that.

:-)

--
Rgds
Peter

Alex Schuster:

>I'll continue to use the old Grub, as it's working fine for me.

And i am still happy with lilo. Am i the only one?

Hartmut
--
Usenet-ABC-Wiki http://www.usenet-abc.de/wiki/
Von Usern fuer User :-)

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 19:05:31 +0200
Hartmut Figge <h.figge@gmx.de> wrote:

>
> And i am still happy with lilo. Am i the only one?
>

Heck no. I use lilo on all of my LInux machines, and when the
time comes to switch to EFI, I will switch to elilo.

In fact, the Intel MB's that I use all have the capability
to use EFI and I will shortly be experimenting with EFI/elilo.

My needs are simple and simple tools are appropriate and available.
Wouldn't it be a shame if, by popular assent, nothing else were
maintained other than grub.

Frank Peters

On 30/06/12 17:10, Dale wrote:

Michael Mol wrote:

AFAIK, you should be fine renaming bzImage to vmlinuz. (Note the z.
It's vmlinuz, not vmlinux")


Well that fixed one thing already. lol I bet I would have named that
wrong. ;-)

vmlinuz. Weird. They did that to confuse me didn't they. :/


I think that you can just symlink the kernel you want to vmlinuz, and
then every time you "make install" in the kernel sources will
automatically update that symlink. (Assuming you have the
sys-apps/debianutils package installed.)

G.Wolfe Woodbury wrote:
> On 06/30/2012 05:50 AM, Dale wrote:
>>
>> Thanks. Now more questions. I have read about this a few times but
>> never quite figured it out. I copy the bzImage and name it bzImage-*
>> because that is what it is named when I type make etc to build a
>> kernel. Is there a difference between bzImage and vmlinux? If it is,
>> is it safe to rename it like that or will it break something? If I need
>> a vmlinux kernel instead of a bzImage, where is that thing? I have
>> looked and I don't have one on mine here. Maybe I am missing
>> something. Google didn't find me anything either.
>>
> As someone else said, the spelling. For grub-mkconfig to recognize it
> as a kernel
> the default names should begin with "vmlinuz-" or "kernel-"
> For my gentoo disk, I rename the bzImage to gentoo.<XYZ> where the XYZ
> is the kernel
> version number. I hand mung the grub.cfg (still legacy grub) in the
> usual fashion.
> I will probably migrate to grub2 pretty quick next time I play with
> the gentoo install.
>
> Grub2 grub-mkconfig os-prober method recognizes grub legacy configs
> and builds proper
> menuentry stanzas as needed.
>
> I'm using multiple discs for booting my system. The first drive (BIOS
> default) is a Win7 native,
> but I use the BIOS "boot menu" options to usually boot grub2 from
> another drive. This drive's grub.cfg
> contains all of my linux installations, which are spread around 4
> different drives.
>
Ahhhh, I can name it kernel. That makes more sense to me. Me votes for
kernel-x.y.z. Heck, this may work for me.

I still don't like the deal of having to run something after changing
the kernel tho. It seems to lilo-ish to me.

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 09:07:30 -0500, Dale wrote:

> > Seriously though, why not use make install? That way you know the
> > right files get copied and given the expected names.

> Because I name my kernel and config the same thing.

make install also copies your config to /boot, with a matching name.

> I also don't like
> the way it does that link thingy it does.

It only does that if you already have the links, i.e. it updates them,
not creates them..

> It seems to expect to keep
> only two kernels around and I'm real bad to have more than that,
> sometimes way more than that.

No it doesn't, it only installs kernels, not uninstalls them. Sure, there
are only two symlinks but those are less relevant with GRUB2 since
grub2-mkconfig creates menu entries for all your kernels anyway.

> Plus, if I do it myself, I know what I am
> doing. If I use make install, I don't know if something was changed in
> how it does it.

So you trust make to compile and link hundreds of object files and create
the kernels and modules. You also trust it to copy all the modules, but
you just want to copy that one last file manually so you can pretend you
are in control? ;-)


--
Neil Bothwick

Feminism: the radical notion that women are people.

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 15:24:17 -0500, Dale wrote:

> I still don't like the deal of having to run something after changing
> the kernel tho. It seems to lilo-ish to me.

Then how do you manage with GRUB legacy? If you don't have symlinks to
the kernels and you don't update the config, how do you boot the new
kernel? You have to update the config, GRUB2 just has an option to do
this automatically.


--
Neil Bothwick

furbling, v.:
Having to wander through a maze of ropes at an airport or bank
even when you are the only person in line.
-- Rich Hall, "Sniglets"