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Old 06-18-2012, 02:34 PM
 
Default Getting around ancient SATA disk size limitations

On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 04:12:35PM +0200, pk wrote:
> On 2012-06-18 08:16, felix@crowfix.com wrote:
>
> > I plugged two 4TB SATA drives in and the BIOS hangs trying to display the disk size.
> >Whether it is the size itself, or from using 4K blocks, I do not know.
>
> This is a bit confusing. Do you mean to say that these are 4TB internal
> drives (3.5")? I can't find any manufacturer that manufactures this size
> (yet)... Or is it 2x 2TB harddrives in a USB3 enclosure? There are
> plenty of those it seems from Seagate, Western digital etc...

Hitachi, I think. Fry's had two choies differing in size of cache
(64M vs 32M) and some 3TB drives too. I could get the model numbers
when I get back to that system (not near it for a few days).

> >I bought a USB 3.0 disk enclosure and the system refused to even acknowledge its presence.
> >USB 3.0 may be advertised as backwards compatible, but not on my system.
>
> If possible try a BIOS upgrade... if not you can always try this (no
> guarantees though):
> http://www.addonics.com/products/ad2u3pci.php

Interesting ... Cheap enough to be worth trying. Thanks.

--
... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._.
Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman & rocket surgeon / felix@crowfix.com
GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E 6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933
I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o
 
Old 06-18-2012, 02:39 PM
 
Default Getting around ancient SATA disk size limitations

On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 10:24:58AM -0400, Michael Mol wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 10:12 AM, pk <peterk2@coolmail.se> wrote:
> > On 2012-06-18 08:16, felix@crowfix.com wrote:
> >
> >> I plugged two 4TB SATA drives in and the BIOS hangs trying to display the disk size.
> >>Whether it is the size itself, or from using 4K blocks, I do not know.
> >
> > This is a bit confusing. Do you mean to say that these are 4TB internal
> > drives (3.5")? I can't find any manufacturer that manufactures this size
> > (yet)... Or is it 2x 2TB harddrives in a USB3 enclosure? There are
> > plenty of those it seems from Seagate, Western digital etc...
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barracuda-3-5-Inch-Internal-ST4000DX000/dp/B005WX3NEU/
>
> "Seagate Barracuda 7200 4 TB 7200RPM SATA 6 Gb/s NCQ 128MB Cache
> 3.5-Inch Internal Bare Drive"
>
> It does bring to mind a question...when I went to put SATAII drives in
> a SATA box, I needed to flip a jumper on the drive so that it would
> operate at 1.5Gb/s instead of 3Gb/s. Felix, did you follow any
> analogous steps for the 4TB drives?

I don't remember seeing any jumpers at all. I'll take another look when I get back there.

> (Cripes, that's a lot of data. One drive, bigger than any of my
> aggregate volumes.)

I remember buying a 330MB ATA drive for $300 and being amazed it was
less than $1/MB. These were $299 at Fry's, 10 cents per GB. Don't
know what I'll do with 8TB but I am sure it will fill up sooner rather
than later. If nothing else, I'll snapshot the system files every
night and take a year to fill it up.

--
... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._.
Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman & rocket surgeon / felix@crowfix.com
GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E 6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933
I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o
 
Old 06-18-2012, 02:48 PM
pk
 
Default Getting around ancient SATA disk size limitations

On 2012-06-18 16:24, Michael Mol wrote:

> http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barracuda-3-5-Inch-Internal-ST4000DX000/dp/B005WX3NEU/
>
> "Seagate Barracuda 7200 4 TB 7200RPM SATA 6 Gb/s NCQ 128MB Cache
> 3.5-Inch Internal Bare Drive"

Hm... then Seagate needs to update their product page:
http://www.seagate.com/gb/en/internal-hard-drives/desktop-hard-drives/barracuda/#

No 4TB in sight... oh, well. Or maybe it's one of those magical drives
I've read about[1]... ;-)

> It does bring to mind a question...when I went to put SATAII drives in
> a SATA box, I needed to flip a jumper on the drive so that it would
> operate at 1.5Gb/s instead of 3Gb/s. Felix, did you follow any
> analogous steps for the 4TB drives?

That would be a possibility of course... but if that fails he also have
this option:
http://www.areca.com.tw/products/pcix.htm
(I'm sure there are similar options from other manufacturers)...

[1]
http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/04/08/170235/magical-chinese-hard-drive

Best regards

Peter K
 
Old 06-18-2012, 02:56 PM
 
Default Getting around ancient SATA disk size limitations

On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 04:48:09PM +0200, pk wrote:
> That would be a possibility of course... but if that fails he also have
> this option:
> http://www.areca.com.tw/products/pcix.htm
> (I'm sure there are similar options from other manufacturers)...

My google-fu is deteriorating. I didn't see this or the USB 3.0 PCI
card, everything was for PCI-e.

This motherboard has some weird mixture of PCI and PXI-X slots. Don't
remember the tricks right now, but I can't put a good graphics card in
it without slowing down the SCSI drives, I think. Since it's a server
mostly, that doesn't matter, but I'll have to refresh my memory before
getting this card. Thanks for the lead.

--
... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._.
Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman & rocket surgeon / felix@crowfix.com
GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E 6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933
I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o
 
Old 06-18-2012, 02:57 PM
Michael Mol
 
Default Getting around ancient SATA disk size limitations

On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 10:48 AM, pk <peterk2@coolmail.se> wrote:
> On 2012-06-18 16:24, Michael Mol wrote:
>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barracuda-3-5-Inch-Internal-ST4000DX000/dp/B005WX3NEU/
>>
>> "Seagate Barracuda 7200 4 TB 7200RPM SATA 6 Gb/s NCQ 128MB Cache
>> 3.5-Inch Internal Bare Drive"
>
> Hm... then Seagate needs to update their product page:
> http://www.seagate.com/gb/en/internal-hard-drives/desktop-hard-drives/barracuda/#
>
> No 4TB in sight... oh, well. Or maybe it's one of those magical drives
> I've read about[1]... ;-)

Read the reviews on the Amazon page. It sounds like Seagate's selling
the 4TB drives, but only in USB enclosures. Reseller are taking the
3.5" drive out of the enclosure and reselling them individually at a
markup.

I only posted the link to the Seagate drive, since that was the first
one that popped up in my search. Point is, the 4TB drives do exist.

[snip]
--
:wq
 
Old 06-18-2012, 03:45 PM
pk
 
Default Getting around ancient SATA disk size limitations

On 2012-06-18 16:57, Michael Mol wrote:

> I only posted the link to the Seagate drive, since that was the first
> one that popped up in my search. Point is, the 4TB drives do exist.

Hm, now that you mentioned it I think I've read something about this a
while ago (long enough time has gone for me to forget it though... :-).

And yes, I knew they were in the "works" but I didn't know they were
selling them... Hitachi (GST owned by Western digital) apparently sells
4TB internal drives (without enclosures)... %-}

Best regards

Peter K
 
Old 06-18-2012, 03:45 PM
pk
 
Default Getting around ancient SATA disk size limitations

On 2012-06-18 16:34, felix@crowfix.com wrote:

> Hitachi, I think. Fry's had two choies differing in size of cache
> (64M vs 32M) and some 3TB drives too. I could get the model numbers
> when I get back to that system (not near it for a few days).

Ah, the deskstar 7K4000 is readily available on Hitachi Global Storage
(which is owned by Western digital) home page... Funny, I first looked
at Hitachis homepage and they refered to Toshibas home page... :-s

Will you be using these (huge!) drives as boot drives or merely as
storage? If the latter and you're really desperate (haven't tried this
myself) there should be an option to turn off the automatic discovery of
drives in the BIOS and (possibly) let the kernel discover them (again
haven't tried it but I don't see why you can't "hotswap" the drives
without BIOS aid)...

Also, this is an "advanced format" drive that emulates 512-byte sectors
so there may be some fiddling before getting it right:
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-4kb-sector-disks/

Best regards

Peter K
 
Old 06-18-2012, 03:54 PM
 
Default Getting around ancient SATA disk size limitations

On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 05:45:28PM +0200, pk wrote:

> Will you be using these (huge!) drives as boot drives or merely as
> storage? If the latter and you're really desperate (haven't tried this
> myself) there should be an option to turn off the automatic discovery of
> drives in the BIOS and (possibly) let the kernel discover them (again
> haven't tried it but I don't see why you can't "hotswap" the drives
> without BIOS aid)...

Just storage. Currently my bulk storage is two 300GB SATA drives,
about 90% full, so I figured an upgrade was in order. I poked around
the BIOS screens and don' remember any way to turn off discovery. But
I'll check again, since I hadn't been looking for that specific possibility.

> Also, this is an "advanced format" drive that emulates 512-byte sectors
> so there may be some fiddling before getting it right:
> https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-4kb-sector-disks/

I replaced a failing PATA (nee IDE) drive at the same time, which is
what triggered this whole mess, and notice that fdisk now defaults the
start sector to 2048 insyead of 63, presumably for the same reason.

--
... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._.
Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman & rocket surgeon / felix@crowfix.com
GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E 6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933
I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o
 
Old 06-18-2012, 08:27 PM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default Getting around ancient SATA disk size limitations

On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 06:24:16 -0700, felix@crowfix.com wrote:

> Found a Tyan page for my motherboard. Didn't see any obvious fixes
> for SATA size. I also don't remember my BIOS version, I'll have to
> check that.

lshw will show you the BIOs version without rebooting.


--
Neil Bothwick

The thrill of victory, the agony of delete.
 
Old 06-18-2012, 11:37 PM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default Getting around ancient SATA disk size limitations

On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 10:24:58 -0400
Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

> Felix, did you follow any
> analogous steps for the 4TB drives?
>
> (Cripes, that's a lot of data. One drive, bigger than any of my
> aggregate volumes.)


Completely OT but what the heck: :-)

I built a 12TB FreeNAS Storage box for the home and dared the wife to
fill it with content. For purposes of illustration I told her that this
was an awful lot of data - 1357 raw DVD movie rips for example.

"Go for it honey!" I said thinking the myself "She will NEVER fill that,
or even come close!"

The joke's on me. After 6 weeks, she's halfway there ^_^



--
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com
 

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