FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Gentoo > Gentoo User

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 05-11-2012, 01:15 AM
Bill Kenworthy
 
Default Are those "green" drives any good?

On Thu, 2012-05-10 at 12:20 -0400, Norman Invasion wrote:
> On 9 May 2012 04:47, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > As some know, I'm planning to buy me a LARGE hard drive to put all my
> > videos on, eventually. The prices are coming down now. I keep seeing
> > these "green" drives that are made by just about every company nowadays.
> > When comparing them to a non "green" drive, do they hold up as good?
> > Are they as dependable as a plain drive? I guess they are more
> > efficient and I get that but do they break quicker, more often or no
> > difference?
> >
> > I have noticed that they tend to spin slower and are cheaper. That much
> > I have figured out. Other than that, I can't see any other difference.
> > Data speeds seem to be about the same.
> >
>
> They have an ugly tendency to nod off at 6 second intervals.
> This runs up "193 Load_Cycle_Count" unacceptably: as many
> as a few hundred thousand in a year & a million cycles is
> getting close to the lifetime limit on most hard drives. I end
> up running some iteration of
> # hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda
> every boot.
>

hdparm installs an init script with a /etc/conf.d/hdparm file which
allows you to set things up at whatever run level you are using. Also
beware things like "laptopmode" which take over rewriting the kernel and
harddrive parameters for dynamic power saving (i.e., different between
running on battery as to from mains) - really does work but can kill a
drive with Load_Cycle_Counts so drive life can be foreshortened if you
get too zealous (i.e., very short spindown times and using a journalled
file system.

BillK
 
Old 05-12-2012, 09:34 AM
Mick
 
Default Are those "green" drives any good?

On Thursday 10 May 2012 19:51:14 Mark Knecht wrote:
> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Norman Invasion
>
> <invasivenorman@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 10 May 2012 14:01, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Norman Invasion
> >>
> >> <invasivenorman@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On 9 May 2012 04:47, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> As some know, I'm planning to buy me a LARGE hard drive to put all my
> >>>> videos on, eventually. The prices are coming down now. I keep seeing
> >>>> these "green" drives that are made by just about every company
> >>>> nowadays. When comparing them to a non "green" drive, do they hold up
> >>>> as good? Are they as dependable as a plain drive? I guess they are
> >>>> more efficient and I get that but do they break quicker, more often
> >>>> or no difference?
> >>>>
> >>>> I have noticed that they tend to spin slower and are cheaper. That
> >>>> much I have figured out. Other than that, I can't see any other
> >>>> difference. Data speeds seem to be about the same.
> >>>
> >>> They have an ugly tendency to nod off at 6 second intervals.
> >>> This runs up "193 Load_Cycle_Count" unacceptably: as many
> >>> as a few hundred thousand in a year & a million cycles is
> >>> getting close to the lifetime limit on most hard drives. I end
> >>> up running some iteration of
> >>> # hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda
> >>> every boot.
> >>
> >> Very true about the 193 count. Here's a drive in a system that was
> >> built in Jan., 2010 so it's a bit over 2 years old at this point. It's
> >> on 24/7 and not rebooted except for more major updates, etc. My tests
> >> say the drive spins down and starts back up every 2 minutes and has
> >> been doing so for about 28 months. IIRC the 193 spec on this drive was
> >> something like 300000 max with the drive currently clocking in at
> >> 700488. I don't see any evidence that it's going to fail but I am
> >> trying to make sure it's backed up often. Being that it's gone >2x at
> >> this point I will swap the drive out in the early summer no matter
> >> what. This week I'll be visiting where the machine is so I'm going to
> >> put a backup drive in the box to get ready.
> >
> > Yes, I just learned about this problem in 2009 or so, &
> > checked on my FreeBSD laptop, which turned out to be
> > at >400000. It only made it another month or so before
> > having unrecoverable errors.
> >
> > Now, I can't conclusively demonstrate that the 193
> > Load_Cycle_Count was somehow causitive, but I
> > gots my suspicions. Many of 'em highly suspectable.
>
> It's part of the 'Wear Out Failure' part of the Bathtub Curve posted
> in the last few days. That said, some Toyotas go 100K miles, and
> others go 500K miles. Same car, same spec, same production line,
> different owners, different roads, different climates, etc.
>
> It's not possible to absolutely know when any drive will fail. I
> suspect that the 300K spec is just that, a spec. They'd replace the
> drive if it failed at 299,999 and wouldn't replace it at 300,001. That
> said, they don't want to spec thing too tightly, and I doubt many
> people make a purchasing decision on a spec like this, so for the vast
> majority of drives most likely they'd do far more than 300K.
>
> At 2 minutes per count on that specific WD Green Drive, if a home
> machine is turned on for instance 5 hours a day (6PM to 11PM) then
> 300K count equates to around 6 years. To me that seems pretty generous
> for a low cost home machine. However for a 24/7 production server it's
> a pretty fast replacement schedule.
>
> Here's data for my 500GB WD RAID Edition drives in my compute server
> here. It's powered down almost every night but doesn't suffer from the
> same firmware issues. The machine was built in April, 2010, so it's a
> bit of 2 years old. Note that it's been powered on less than 1/2 the
> number of hours but only has a 193 count of 907 vs > 700000!
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>
>
> c2stable ~ # smartctl -a /dev/sda
> smartctl 5.42 2011-10-20 r3458 [x86_64-linux-3.2.12-gentoo] (local build)
> Copyright (C) 2002-11 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net
>
> === START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
> Model Family: Western Digital RE3 Serial ATA
> Device Model: WDC WD5002ABYS-02B1B0
> Serial Number: WD-WCASYA846988
> LU WWN Device Id: 5 0014ee 2042c3477
> Firmware Version: 02.03B03
> User Capacity: 500,107,862,016 bytes [500 GB]
> Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical
> Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
> ATA Version is: 8
> ATA Standard is: Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated
> Local Time is: Thu May 10 11:45:45 2012 PDT
> SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
> SMART support is: Enabled
>
> === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
> SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
>
> General SMART Values:
> Offline data collection status: (0x84) Offline data collection activity
> was suspended by an
> interrupting command from host.
> Auto Offline Data Collection:
> Enabled. Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test
> routine completed without error or no self-test has ever been run.
> Total time to complete Offline
> data collection: ( 9480) seconds.
> Offline data collection
> capabilities: (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
> Auto Offline data collection
> on/off support.
> Suspend Offline collection upon new
> command.
> Offline surface scan supported.
> Self-test supported.
> Conveyance Self-test
> supported.
> Selective Self-test supported.
> SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before
> entering
> power-saving mode.
> Supports SMART auto save
> timer.
> Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported.
> General Purpose Logging
> supported.
> Short self-test routine
> recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes.
> Extended self-test routine
> recommended polling time: ( 112) minutes.
> Conveyance self-test routine
> recommended polling time: ( 5) minutes.
> SCT capabilities: (0x303f) SCT Status supported.
> SCT Error Recovery Control
> supported.
> SCT Feature Control supported.
> SCT Data Table supported.
>
> SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
> Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE
> UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
> 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x002f 200 200 051 Pre-fail
> Always - 0
> 3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0027 239 235 021 Pre-fail
> Always - 1050
> 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
> Always - 935
> 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 200 200 140 Pre-fail
> Always - 0
> 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x002e 200 200 000 Old_age
> Always - 0
> 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 091 091 000 Old_age
> Always - 7281
> 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
> Always - 0
> 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
> Always - 0
> 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
> Always - 933
> 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age
> Always - 27
> 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age
> Always - 907
> 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 106 086 000 Old_age
> Always - 41
> 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age
> Always - 0
> 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age
> Always - 0
> 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0030 200 200 000 Old_age
> Offline - 0
> 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age
> Always - 0
> 200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x0008 200 200 000 Old_age
> Offline - 0

Is this 193 Load_Cycle_Count an issue only on the green drives?

I have a very old Compaq laptop here that shows:

# smartctl -A /dev/sda | egrep "Power_On|Load_Cycle"
9 Power_On_Hours 0x0012 055 055 000 Old_age Always
- 19830
193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 001 001 000 Old_age Always
- 1739734

Admittedly, there are some 60 errors on it (having been used extensively on
bouncy trains, buses, aeroplanes, etc) but it is still refusing to die ...
O_O

It is a Hitachi 20G

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Hitachi Travelstar 80GN
Device Model: IC25N020ATMR04-0
Serial Number: MRX107K1DS623H
Firmware Version: MO1OAD5A
User Capacity: 20,003,880,960 bytes [20.0 GB]
Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical
Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is: 6
ATA Standard is: ATA/ATAPI-6 T13 1410D revision 3a
Local Time is: Sat May 12 10:30:13 2012 BST
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===

--
Regards,
Mick
 
Old 05-12-2012, 09:49 AM
Volker Armin Hemmann
 
Default Are those "green" drives any good?

Am Samstag, 12. Mai 2012, 10:34:12 schrieb Mick:
> On Thursday 10 May 2012 19:51:14 Mark Knecht wrote:
> > On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Norman Invasion
> >
> > <invasivenorman@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 10 May 2012 14:01, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Norman Invasion
> > >>
> > >> <invasivenorman@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> On 9 May 2012 04:47, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>> Hi,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> As some know, I'm planning to buy me a LARGE hard drive to put all my
> > >>>> videos on, eventually. The prices are coming down now. I keep
> > >>>> seeing
> > >>>> these "green" drives that are made by just about every company
> > >>>> nowadays. When comparing them to a non "green" drive, do they hold up
> > >>>> as good? Are they as dependable as a plain drive? I guess they are
> > >>>> more efficient and I get that but do they break quicker, more often
> > >>>> or no difference?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I have noticed that they tend to spin slower and are cheaper. That
> > >>>> much I have figured out. Other than that, I can't see any other
> > >>>> difference. Data speeds seem to be about the same.
> > >>>
> > >>> They have an ugly tendency to nod off at 6 second intervals.
> > >>> This runs up "193 Load_Cycle_Count" unacceptably: as many
> > >>> as a few hundred thousand in a year & a million cycles is
> > >>> getting close to the lifetime limit on most hard drives. I end
> > >>> up running some iteration of
> > >>> # hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda
> > >>> every boot.
> > >>
> > >> Very true about the 193 count. Here's a drive in a system that was
> > >> built in Jan., 2010 so it's a bit over 2 years old at this point. It's
> > >> on 24/7 and not rebooted except for more major updates, etc. My tests
> > >> say the drive spins down and starts back up every 2 minutes and has
> > >> been doing so for about 28 months. IIRC the 193 spec on this drive was
> > >> something like 300000 max with the drive currently clocking in at
> > >> 700488. I don't see any evidence that it's going to fail but I am
> > >> trying to make sure it's backed up often. Being that it's gone >2x at
> > >> this point I will swap the drive out in the early summer no matter
> > >> what. This week I'll be visiting where the machine is so I'm going to
> > >> put a backup drive in the box to get ready.
> > >
> > > Yes, I just learned about this problem in 2009 or so, &
> > > checked on my FreeBSD laptop, which turned out to be
> > > at >400000. It only made it another month or so before
> > > having unrecoverable errors.
> > >
> > > Now, I can't conclusively demonstrate that the 193
> > > Load_Cycle_Count was somehow causitive, but I
> > > gots my suspicions. Many of 'em highly suspectable.
> >
> > It's part of the 'Wear Out Failure' part of the Bathtub Curve posted
> > in the last few days. That said, some Toyotas go 100K miles, and
> > others go 500K miles. Same car, same spec, same production line,
> > different owners, different roads, different climates, etc.
> >
> > It's not possible to absolutely know when any drive will fail. I
> > suspect that the 300K spec is just that, a spec. They'd replace the
> > drive if it failed at 299,999 and wouldn't replace it at 300,001. That
> > said, they don't want to spec thing too tightly, and I doubt many
> > people make a purchasing decision on a spec like this, so for the vast
> > majority of drives most likely they'd do far more than 300K.
> >
> > At 2 minutes per count on that specific WD Green Drive, if a home
> > machine is turned on for instance 5 hours a day (6PM to 11PM) then
> > 300K count equates to around 6 years. To me that seems pretty generous
> > for a low cost home machine. However for a 24/7 production server it's
> > a pretty fast replacement schedule.
> >
> > Here's data for my 500GB WD RAID Edition drives in my compute server
> > here. It's powered down almost every night but doesn't suffer from the
> > same firmware issues. The machine was built in April, 2010, so it's a
> > bit of 2 years old. Note that it's been powered on less than 1/2 the
> > number of hours but only has a 193 count of 907 vs > 700000!
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > c2stable ~ # smartctl -a /dev/sda
> > smartctl 5.42 2011-10-20 r3458 [x86_64-linux-3.2.12-gentoo] (local build)
> > Copyright (C) 2002-11 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net
> >
> > === START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
> > Model Family: Western Digital RE3 Serial ATA
> > Device Model: WDC WD5002ABYS-02B1B0
> > Serial Number: WD-WCASYA846988
> > LU WWN Device Id: 5 0014ee 2042c3477
> > Firmware Version: 02.03B03
> > User Capacity: 500,107,862,016 bytes [500 GB]
> > Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical
> > Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
> > ATA Version is: 8
> > ATA Standard is: Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated
> > Local Time is: Thu May 10 11:45:45 2012 PDT
> > SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
> > SMART support is: Enabled
> >
> > === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
> > SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED
> >
> > General SMART Values:
> > Offline data collection status: (0x84) Offline data collection activity
> >
> > was suspended by an
> >
> > interrupting command from host.
> >
> > Auto Offline Data Collection:
> > Enabled. Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test
> > routine completed without error or no self-test has ever been run.
> > Total time to complete Offline
> > data collection: ( 9480) seconds.
> > Offline data collection
> > capabilities: (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
> >
> > Auto Offline data collection
> >
> > on/off support.
> >
> > Suspend Offline collection upon
> > new
> > command.
> > Offline surface scan supported.
> > Self-test supported.
> > Conveyance Self-test
> >
> > supported.
> >
> > Selective Self-test supported.
> >
> > SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before
> > entering
> >
> > power-saving mode.
> > Supports SMART auto save
> >
> > timer.
> > Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported.
> >
> > General Purpose Logging
> >
> > supported.
> > Short self-test routine
> > recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes.
> > Extended self-test routine
> > recommended polling time: ( 112) minutes.
> > Conveyance self-test routine
> > recommended polling time: ( 5) minutes.
> > SCT capabilities: (0x303f) SCT Status supported.
> >
> > SCT Error Recovery Control
> >
> > supported.
> >
> > SCT Feature Control supported.
> > SCT Data Table supported.
> >
> > SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
> > Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
> > ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE
> > UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
> >
> > 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x002f 200 200 051 Pre-fail
> >
> > Always - 0
> >
> > 3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0027 239 235 021 Pre-fail
> >
> > Always - 1050
> >
> > 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
> >
> > Always - 935
> >
> > 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 200 200 140 Pre-fail
> >
> > Always - 0
> >
> > 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x002e 200 200 000 Old_age
> >
> > Always - 0
> >
> > 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 091 091 000 Old_age
> >
> > Always - 7281
> >
> > 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
> >
> > Always - 0
> >
> > 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
> >
> > Always - 0
> >
> > 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age
> >
> > Always - 933
> > 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age
> > Always - 27
> > 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age
> > Always - 907
> > 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 106 086 000 Old_age
> > Always - 41
> > 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age
> > Always - 0
> > 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age
> > Always - 0
> > 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0030 200 200 000 Old_age
> > Offline - 0
> > 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age
> > Always - 0
> > 200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x0008 200 200 000 Old_age
> > Offline - 0
>
> Is this 193 Load_Cycle_Count an issue only on the green drives?
>
> I have a very old Compaq laptop here that shows:
>
> # smartctl -A /dev/sda | egrep "Power_On|Load_Cycle"
> 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0012 055 055 000 Old_age Always
> - 19830
> 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 001 001 000 Old_age Always
> - 1739734
>
> Admittedly, there are some 60 errors on it (having been used extensively on
> bouncy trains, buses, aeroplanes, etc) but it is still refusing to die ...
> O_O
>
> It is a Hitachi 20G
>
> === START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
> Model Family: Hitachi Travelstar 80GN
> Device Model: IC25N020ATMR04-0
> Serial Number: MRX107K1DS623H
> Firmware Version: MO1OAD5A
> User Capacity: 20,003,880,960 bytes [20.0 GB]
> Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical
> Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
> ATA Version is: 6
> ATA Standard is: ATA/ATAPI-6 T13 1410D revision 3a
> Local Time is: Sat May 12 10:30:13 2012 BST
> SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
> SMART support is: Enabled
>
> === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===

SAMSUNG HD502IJ
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED
WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 100 100 051 Pre-fail Always
- 0
3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0007 085 085 011 Pre-fail Always
- 5480
4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 098 098 000 Old_age Always
- 1864
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 010 Pre-fail Always
- 0
7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000f 100 100 051 Pre-fail Always
- 0
8 Seek_Time_Performance 0x0025 100 100 015 Pre-fail Offline -
10814
9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 096 096 000 Old_age Always
- 20178
10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0033 100 100 051 Pre-fail Always
- 0
11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 098 098 000 Old_age Always
- 1854
13 Read_Soft_Error_Rate 0x000e 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
183 Runtime_Bad_Block 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 8
184 End-to-End_Error 0x0033 100 100 099 Pre-fail Always
- 0
187 Reported_Uncorrect 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
188 Command_Timeout 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022 082 065 000 Old_age Always
- 18 (Min/Max 13/18)
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 079 061 000 Old_age Always
- 21 (Min/Max 13/21)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 2587
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0030 100 100 000 Old_age Offline -
0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x003e 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x000a 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
201 Soft_Read_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 253 000 Old_age Always
- 0


SAMSUNG HD753LJ:

ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED
WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 100 100 051 Pre-fail Always
- 0
3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0007 075 075 011 Pre-fail Always
- 8330
4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 099 099 000 Old_age Always
- 1399
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 010 Pre-fail Always
- 0
7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000f 100 100 051 Pre-fail Always
- 0
8 Seek_Time_Performance 0x0025 100 100 015 Pre-fail Offline -
10041
9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 097 097 000 Old_age Always
- 16941
10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0033 100 100 051 Pre-fail Always
- 0
11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 099 099 000 Old_age Always
- 1397
13 Read_Soft_Error_Rate 0x000e 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
183 Runtime_Bad_Block 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
184 End-to-End_Error 0x0033 100 100 000 Pre-fail Always
- 0
187 Reported_Uncorrect 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
188 Command_Timeout 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022 081 065 000 Old_age Always
- 19 (Min/Max 12/19)
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 077 064 000 Old_age Always
- 23 (Min/Max 12/23)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered 0x001a 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 1412
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0030 100 100 000 Old_age Offline -
0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x003e 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x000a 100 100 000 Old_age Always
- 0
201 Soft_Read_Error_Rate 0x000a 253 253 000 Old_age Always
- 0

i have some more disks, but those clocked the most hours.


--
#163933
 
Old 05-12-2012, 06:50 PM
Frank Steinmetzger
 
Default Are those "green" drives any good?

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 12:20:57PM -0400, Norman Invasion wrote:
> On 9 May 2012 04:47, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > As some know, I'm planning to buy me a LARGE hard drive to put all my
> > videos on, eventually. *The prices are coming down now. *I keep seeing
> > these "green" drives that are made by just about every company nowadays.
> > *When comparing them to a non "green" drive, do they hold up as good?
> > Are they as dependable as a plain drive? *I guess they are more
> > efficient and I get that but do they break quicker, more often or no
> > difference?
> >
> > I have noticed that they tend to spin slower and are cheaper. *That much
> > I have figured out. *Other than that, I can't see any other difference.
> > *Data speeds seem to be about the same.
> >
>
> They have an ugly tendency to nod off at 6 second intervals.
> This runs up "193 Load_Cycle_Count" unacceptably: as many
> as a few hundred thousand in a year & a million cycles is
> getting close to the lifetime limit on most hard drives. I end
> up running some iteration of
> # hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda
> every boot.

I bought my current internal laptop disk for Christmas 2008. It's a Samsung
HM500JI (with 500 GB). Early on I noticed that, according to smartctl, its
Load_Cycle_Count is increasing every 2 or 3 seconds. I even asked Samsung
about this, but they either couldn't give any clue or didn't want to, b/c the
Serial Number is from Turkey, so not from the European market.

Anyhoo... I just checked the values:
Power on hours: 11500
Start/stop count: 2797
Power cycle count: 2197

But the load cycle count is at almost 12.3 million(!). That just can't be
right. I stopped believing that number a good while ago.


OTOH, I just became a bit nervous when looking at smartctl's output...
Reallocated sectors: 7 (threshold 10)
Calibration retry count: 1631
Load retry count: 1631
--
Gru | Greetings | Qapla'
Please do not share anything from, with or about me with any Facebook service.

Humans lose most of their time trying to gain time.
 
Old 05-13-2012, 09:35 AM
David Haller
 
Default Are those "green" drives any good?

Hello,

On Sat, 12 May 2012, Mick wrote:
>Is this 193 Load_Cycle_Count an issue only on the green drives?

AFAIK it was a firmware bug on some models.

>I have a very old Compaq laptop here that shows:
>
># smartctl -A /dev/sda | egrep "Power_On|Load_Cycle"
> 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0012 055 055 000 Old_age Always
>- 19830
>193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 001 001 000 Old_age Always
>- 1739734

Laptop drives are _built_ for unloading frequently to protect the
drive from bumps and also to save power. Desktop drives are _not_
built for that.

So, don't worry.

HTH,
-dnh

--
Death: I am last minute stuff!
 
Old 05-13-2012, 09:38 AM
David Haller
 
Default Are those "green" drives any good?

Hello,

On Sat, 12 May 2012, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
>On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 12:20:57PM -0400, Norman Invasion wrote:
>> On 9 May 2012 04:47, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > As some know, I'm planning to buy me a LARGE hard drive to put all my
>> > videos on, eventually. *The prices are coming down now. *I keep seeing
>> > these "green" drives that are made by just about every company nowadays.
>> > *When comparing them to a non "green" drive, do they hold up as good?
>> > Are they as dependable as a plain drive? *I guess they are more
>> > efficient and I get that but do they break quicker, more often or no
>> > difference?
>> >
>> > I have noticed that they tend to spin slower and are cheaper. *That much
>> > I have figured out. *Other than that, I can't see any other difference.
>> > *Data speeds seem to be about the same.
>> >
>>
>> They have an ugly tendency to nod off at 6 second intervals.
>> This runs up "193 Load_Cycle_Count" unacceptably: as many
>> as a few hundred thousand in a year & a million cycles is
>> getting close to the lifetime limit on most hard drives. I end
>> up running some iteration of
>> # hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda
>> every boot.
>
>I bought my current internal laptop disk for Christmas 2008. It's a Samsung
>HM500JI (with 500 GB). Early on I noticed that, according to smartctl, its
>Load_Cycle_Count is increasing every 2 or 3 seconds. I even asked Samsung
>about this, but they either couldn't give any clue or didn't want to, b/c the
>Serial Number is from Turkey, so not from the European market.
>
>Anyhoo... I just checked the values:
>Power on hours: 11500
>Start/stop count: 2797
>Power cycle count: 2197
>
>But the load cycle count is at almost 12.3 million(!). That just can't be
>right. I stopped believing that number a good while ago.

As I said in another mail: laptop drives are built for frequent
unloading. Your number does seem a bit high though, that's about 1000
load cycles per hour...

>OTOH, I just became a bit nervous when looking at smartctl's output...
>Reallocated sectors: 7 (threshold 10)
>Calibration retry count: 1631
>Load retry count: 1631

That's not healty. c.f. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.

HTH,
-dnh

--
To resist the influence of others, knowledge of one's self is
most important. -- Teal'C, Stargate SG-1, 9x14 - Stronghold
 
Old 05-21-2012, 09:05 PM
Frank Steinmetzger
 
Default Are those "green" drives any good?

On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 11:38:34AM +0200, David Haller wrote:

> >I bought my current internal laptop disk for Christmas 2008. It's a Samsung
> >HM500JI (with 500 GB). Early on I noticed that, according to smartctl, its
> >Load_Cycle_Count is increasing every 2 or 3 seconds. I even asked Samsung
> >about this, but they either couldn't give any clue or didn't want to, b/c the
> >Serial Number is from Turkey, so not from the European market.
> >
> >Anyhoo... I just checked the values:
>>[…]
> >But the load cycle count is at almost 12.3 million(!). That just can't be
> >right. I stopped believing that number a good while ago.
>
> As I said in another mail: laptop drives are built for frequent
> unloading. Your number does seem a bit high though, that's about 1000
> load cycles per hour...

My Pa bought the same HDD model for his laptop a few months back. Last weekend
I visited him and loaded a diag tool on his Windows. It showed 20 or 30.000
cycle counts. So I guess my model just has a bad firmware or summit like that.
Perhaps that's why it was so cheap back then (only ~62€ for a 500 GB drive by
the end of 2008).

Oh well, I'll just have to remember to do backups a bit more often.
--
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla'
Please do not share anything from, with or about me with any Facebook service.

A boss is a human just like everyone else, he just doesn’t know.
 
Old 05-21-2012, 10:44 PM
Andrew Hoffman
 
Default Are those "green" drives any good?

You guys might find this study from google interesting:*
http://static.googleusercontent.com/external_content/untrusted_dlcp/research.google.com/en/us/archive/disk_failures.pdf*


On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Frank Steinmetzger <Warp_7@gmx.de> wrote:

On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 11:38:34AM +0200, David Haller wrote:



> >I bought my current internal laptop disk for Christmas 2008. *It's a Samsung

> >HM500JI (with 500 GB). *Early on I noticed that, according to smartctl, its

> >Load_Cycle_Count is increasing every 2 or 3 seconds. *I even asked Samsung

> >about this, but they either couldn't give any clue or didn't want to, b/c the

> >Serial Number is from Turkey, so not from the European market.

> >

> >Anyhoo... I just checked the values:

>>[…]

> >But the load cycle count is at almost 12.3 million(!). *That just can't be

> >right. *I stopped believing that number a good while ago.

>

> As I said in another mail: laptop drives are built for frequent

> unloading. Your number does seem a bit high though, that's about 1000

> load cycles per hour...



My Pa bought the same HDD model for his laptop a few months back. Last weekend

I visited him and loaded a diag tool on his Windows. It showed 20 or 30.000

cycle counts. So I guess my model just has a bad firmware or summit like that.

Perhaps that's why it was so cheap back then (only ~62€ for a 500 GB drive by

the end of 2008).



Oh well, I'll just have to remember to do backups a bit more often.

--

Gruß | Greetings | Qapla'

Please do not share anything from, with or about me with any Facebook service.



A boss is a human just like everyone else, he just doesn’t know.
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 09:46 PM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org