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Old 05-09-2012, 06:53 PM
Mark Knecht
 
Default Are those "green" drives any good?

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Paul Hartman
<paul.hartman+gentoo@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The best answer at the time was some piece of low level software from
>> WD called something like wdtwiddle or something
>
> WDTLER *
>

Hey, I wasn't that far off! ;-)
 
Old 05-09-2012, 09:28 PM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default Are those "green" drives any good?

On Wed, 09 May 2012 04:52:57 -0500
Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

> I was thinking the same thing about the speed and them lasting longer
> because of the slower speed. I mean, it's less wear and less heat.
> I'd just hate to buy one and it be a piece of junk or something else I
> wasn't expecting to be wrong. I wish I could afford server grade.
> Weeeeee!!

My thoughts these days is that nobody really makes a bad drive anymore.
Like cars[1], they're all good and do what it says on the box. Same
with bikes[2].

A manufacturer may have some bad luck and a product range is less than
perfect, but even that is quite rare and most stuff ups can be fixed
with new firmware. So it's all good.

For video, I would advise you invest in gobs and gobs of RAM (the stuff
is dirt cheap these days). Have more RAM than the biggest video you
will watch (so go for 8G minimum) and the entire video will fit in
memory = read the disc once and watch.

Funny lags in video just go away. That's what I did with my HP
MicroServers - maxed out the RAM to 8G and bought 4 x 3T WD 5400
drives. It runs FreeNAS (built on FreeBSD) with ZFS = shove the drives
in and let them software figure out what the blazes to do. Over the
years I've gotten sick and tired of pampering with disk arrays and
treating them like fragile china that must be molly-coddled. What I
want is lots of storage that will mail me when it detects issues.

--
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com
 
Old 05-09-2012, 10:24 PM
Dale
 
Default Are those "green" drives any good?

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Wed, 09 May 2012 04:52:57 -0500
> Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I was thinking the same thing about the speed and them lasting longer
>> because of the slower speed. I mean, it's less wear and less heat.
>> I'd just hate to buy one and it be a piece of junk or something else I
>> wasn't expecting to be wrong. I wish I could afford server grade.
>> Weeeeee!!
>
> My thoughts these days is that nobody really makes a bad drive anymore.
> Like cars[1], they're all good and do what it says on the box. Same
> with bikes[2].
>
> A manufacturer may have some bad luck and a product range is less than
> perfect, but even that is quite rare and most stuff ups can be fixed
> with new firmware. So it's all good.


That's my thoughts too. It doesn't matter what brand you go with, they
all have some sort of failure at some point. They are not built to last
forever and there is always the random failure, even when a week old.
It's usually the loss of important data and not having a backup that
makes it sooooo bad. I'm not real picky on brand as long as it is a
company I have heard of.

Now if someone posts that there is a bad design for some set of drives,
I would avoid that. If there are people that have a unusual high
failure rate then maybe an exception to the rule is needed. That's rare
tho. Anyone want to buy a Yugo for full price? lol I wouldn't.


>
> For video, I would advise you invest in gobs and gobs of RAM (the stuff
> is dirt cheap these days). Have more RAM than the biggest video you
> will watch (so go for 8G minimum) and the entire video will fit in
> memory = read the disc once and watch.
>
> Funny lags in video just go away. That's what I did with my HP
> MicroServers - maxed out the RAM to 8G and bought 4 x 3T WD 5400
> drives. It runs FreeNAS (built on FreeBSD) with ZFS = shove the drives
> in and let them software figure out what the blazes to do. Over the
> years I've gotten sick and tired of pampering with disk arrays and
> treating them like fragile china that must be molly-coddled. What I
> want is lots of storage that will mail me when it detects issues.
>


I got that beat a long time ago. I started out with 4Gbs originally. I
found out that a 64 bit OS uses a bit more memory so, I got another
4Gbs. Then newegg had a sale on a pair of 4gb sticks and I got them.
I'm at 16Gbs right now. I need to ramp up drive space to match up with
my memory space. I'm maxed out on ram but I got SATA ports that are
empty. We can't have that can we? lol

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or
how you interpreted my words!

Miss the compile output? Hint:
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--quiet-build=n"
 
Old 05-09-2012, 10:37 PM
Dale
 
Default Are those "green" drives any good?

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 9. Mai 2012, 03:47:09 schrieb Dale:
>> Hi,
>>
>> As some know, I'm planning to buy me a LARGE hard drive to put all my
>> videos on, eventually. The prices are coming down now. I keep seeing
>> these "green" drives that are made by just about every company nowadays.
>> When comparing them to a non "green" drive, do they hold up as good?
>> Are they as dependable as a plain drive? I guess they are more
>> efficient and I get that but do they break quicker, more often or no
>> difference?
>>
>> I have noticed that they tend to spin slower and are cheaper. That much
>> I have figured out. Other than that, I can't see any other difference.
>> Data speeds seem to be about the same.
>>
>> Please, no brand wars. I may get a WD, Maxtor, Samsung or some other
>> brand. I haven't picked that part yet. So far, I have had good luck
>> with drives. I think I have one doorstop so far. I have at least one
>> of each of the brands above too. Don't jinx me. I'm sure someone has a
>> horror story about some brand.
>>
>> Thanks much.
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-) :-)
>
> samsung here. Put that beast into an esata case. Sometimes I forget to turn it
> off, because it is so silent. And cool. The others should be similar. They are
> slower, yes, but fast enough to watch video.
>
> 7200 for stuff that needs some speed.
> 5400 for video and backups.
>
> just fine.
>


My videos and such is on a Samsung 750Gb drive now. I'm pretty sure it
is a 7200rpm drive tho. My whole system is quiet. I have a Cooler
Master HAF-932 case with those LARGE fans and you can't hear anything.
Even if I cut everything else off in this room, I can't hear the system
at all. Let's keep in mind that I am getting older tho. ;-)

One reason I am considering the green drives is that I can buy a larger
drive for about the same price. I use LVM so I added a 250Gb drive to
the 750Gb to get 1Tb. Thing is, I'll have that full to before to long.
I need to go ahead and get a large drive. Even a 2Tb drive will be
about half full if I transfer it all over. Of course I'm keeping the
750Gb to tho. Here is where I am with all drives in use.

/dev/mapper/data-data1 923G 619G 297G 68% /data

I start looking when I get to about 70% and by 85%, I want some hardware
or a plan to move things around or something.

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or
how you interpreted my words!

Miss the compile output? Hint:
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--quiet-build=n"
 
Old 05-09-2012, 10:48 PM
Paul Hartman
 
Default Are those "green" drives any good?

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> *It doesn't matter what brand you go with

Especially true since there are only 2 companies actually making
consumer hard drives anymore: WD and Seagate. Both of them seem to
know what they are doing, for the most part...

Some hard drives fail at the beginning of their life. All hard drives
fail at the end of their life.
 
Old 05-09-2012, 11:37 PM
Mark Knecht
 
Default Are those "green" drives any good?

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
<SNIP>
>> My thoughts these days is that nobody really makes a bad drive anymore.
>> Like cars[1], they're all good and do what it says on the box. Same
>> with bikes[2].
>>
>> A manufacturer may have some bad luck and a product range is less than
>> perfect, but even that is quite rare and most stuff ups can be fixed
>> with new firmware. So it's all good.
>
>
> That's my thoughts too. *It doesn't matter what brand you go with, they
> all have some sort of failure at some point. *They are not built to last
> forever and there is always the random failure, even when a week old.
> It's usually the loss of important data and not having a backup that
> makes it sooooo bad. *I'm not real picky on brand as long as it is a
> company I have heard of.
>

One thing to keep in mind is statistics. For a single drive by itself
it hardly matters anymore what you buy. You cannot predict the
failure. However if you buy multiple identical drives at the same time
then most likely you will either get all good drives or (possibly) a
bunch of drives that suffer from similar defects and all start failing
at the same point in their life cycle. For RAID arrays it's
measurably best to buy drives that come from different manufacturing
lots, better from different factories, and maybe even from different
companies. Then, if a drive fails, assuming the failure is really the
fault of the drive and not some local issue like power sources or ESD
events, etc., it's less likely other drives in the box will fail at
the same time.

Cheers,
Mark
 
Old 05-09-2012, 11:49 PM
Dale
 
Default Are those "green" drives any good?

Paul Hartman wrote:
> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It doesn't matter what brand you go with
>
> Especially true since there are only 2 companies actually making
> consumer hard drives anymore: WD and Seagate. Both of them seem to
> know what they are doing, for the most part...
>
> Some hard drives fail at the beginning of their life. All hard drives
> fail at the end of their life.
>
>


I'm about to show my age so please close your eyes. Pretty please. -_-

Way back in the stone age, there was a guy that released a curve for
electronics life. The failure rate is high at the beginning, especially
for the first few minutes, then falls to about nothing, then after
several years it goes back up again. At the beginning of the curve, the
thought was it could be a bad solder job, bad components or some other
problem. At the other end was just when age kicked in. Sweat spot is
in the middle.

I try to keep these things in mind. Example. I bought a TV a couple
years ago. My old TV was about 20 years old and the power supply had
some sort of issue. It was either a diode getting weak or a capacitor
was going bad. It had the little sine waves going up the screen. It
was hard to see but was visible when the screen was all the same colour.
Age was creeping up on this thing.

Anyway, when my DirecTv box went out, it was years old too, I went to
get me a new one. While there I saw this nice LCD TV sitting on a shelf
and I might add, it looked so lonesome. lol It was marked down about
half price. Hmmm, was it repaired or what? I asked a guy what the deal
was. He said it was their display model. My first thought was that
this could have already went through the first part of the curve. So, I
asked how long it was on display. He said about 9 or 10 months. He
thinks I am buying used and I'm thinking that this thing has already
went through the bad part of its life.

I walked out with a $800 TV for about $400. I think I got the better
deal myself.

Most of the drives, or other electronics, that I have either die under
warranty or die when I am past caring. It has been a good long while
since I had to return anything under warranty.

I'm done showing my age, open your eyes again. LOL

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or
how you interpreted my words!

Miss the compile output? Hint:
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--quiet-build=n"
 
Old 05-09-2012, 11:58 PM
Dale
 
Default Are those "green" drives any good?

Mark Knecht wrote:
> On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> <SNIP>
>>> My thoughts these days is that nobody really makes a bad drive anymore.
>>> Like cars[1], they're all good and do what it says on the box. Same
>>> with bikes[2].
>>>
>>> A manufacturer may have some bad luck and a product range is less than
>>> perfect, but even that is quite rare and most stuff ups can be fixed
>>> with new firmware. So it's all good.
>>
>>
>> That's my thoughts too. It doesn't matter what brand you go with, they
>> all have some sort of failure at some point. They are not built to last
>> forever and there is always the random failure, even when a week old.
>> It's usually the loss of important data and not having a backup that
>> makes it sooooo bad. I'm not real picky on brand as long as it is a
>> company I have heard of.
>>
>
> One thing to keep in mind is statistics. For a single drive by itself
> it hardly matters anymore what you buy. You cannot predict the
> failure. However if you buy multiple identical drives at the same time
> then most likely you will either get all good drives or (possibly) a
> bunch of drives that suffer from similar defects and all start failing
> at the same point in their life cycle. For RAID arrays it's
> measurably best to buy drives that come from different manufacturing
> lots, better from different factories, and maybe even from different
> companies. Then, if a drive fails, assuming the failure is really the
> fault of the drive and not some local issue like power sources or ESD
> events, etc., it's less likely other drives in the box will fail at
> the same time.
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>
>



You make a good point too. I had a headlight to go out on my car once
long ago. I, not thinking, replaced them both since the new ones were
brighter. Guess what, when one of the bulbs blew out, the other was out
VERY soon after. Now, I replace them but NOT at the same time. Keep in
mind, just like a hard drive, when one headlight is on, so is the other
one. When we turn our computers on, all the drives spin up together so
they are basically all getting the same wear and tear effect.

I don't use RAID, except to kill bugs, but that is good advice. People
who do use RAID would be wise to use it.

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or
how you interpreted my words!

Miss the compile output? Hint:
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--quiet-build=n"
 
Old 05-10-2012, 01:39 AM
Pandu Poluan
 
Default Are those "green" drives any good?

On May 10, 2012 6:54 AM, "Dale" <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

>

> Paul Hartman wrote:

> > On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> *It doesn't matter what brand you go with

> >

> > Especially true since there are only 2 companies actually making

> > consumer hard drives anymore: WD and Seagate. Both of them seem to

> > know what they are doing, for the most part...

> >

> > Some hard drives fail at the beginning of their life. All hard drives

> > fail at the end of their life.

> >

> >

>

>

> I'm about to show my age so please close your eyes. *Pretty please. *-_-

>

> Way back in the stone age, there was a guy that released a curve for

> electronics life. *The failure rate is high at the beginning, especially

> for the first few minutes, then falls to about nothing, then after

> several years it goes back up again. *At the beginning of the curve, the

> thought was it could be a bad solder job, bad components or some other

> problem. *At the other end was just when age kicked in. *Sweat spot is

> in the middle.

>

> I try to keep these things in mind. *Example. *I bought a TV a couple

> years ago. *My old TV was about 20 years old and the power supply had

> some sort of issue. *It was either a diode getting weak or a capacitor

> was going bad. *It had the little sine waves going up the screen. *It

> was hard to see but was visible when the screen was all the same colour.

> *Age was creeping up on this thing.

>

> Anyway, when my DirecTv box went out, it was years old too, I went to

> get me a new one. *While there I saw this nice LCD TV sitting on a shelf

> and I might add, it looked so lonesome. *lol *It was marked down about

> half price. *Hmmm, was it repaired or what? *I asked a guy what the deal

> was. *He said it was their display model. *My first thought was that

> this could have already went through the first part of the curve. *So, I

> asked how long it was on display. *He said about 9 or 10 months. *He

> thinks I am buying used and I'm thinking that this thing has already

> went through the bad part of its life.

>

> I walked out with a $800 TV for about $400. *I think I got the better

> deal myself.

>


Heeey, that's a good point! Now I know that buying display units might be the best deal.


Thanks, again! I'll now be keeping an eye open for such deals ;-)


Rgds,
 
Old 05-10-2012, 01:52 AM
Adam Carter
 
Default Are those "green" drives any good?

>> Way back in the stone age, there was a guy that released a curve for
>> electronics life. *The failure rate is high at the beginning, especially
>> for the first few minutes, then falls to about nothing, then after
>> several years it goes back up again.

That concept is much more general than just electronics;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve
 

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