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Old 03-27-2012, 04:57 PM
Dale
 
Default InitRAMFS - boot expert sought

Michael Hampicke wrote:
>> Dracut is masked on ~amd64. Bugs me, as I'd rather use something like
>> that than genkernel (I very much like building my own kernels; it
>> helps me keep things lean, and keeps me familiar with the capabilities
>> of current and future systems). But now I have to find time to learn
>> how to use Genkernel.
>
> I don't understand why people always say that they hate genkernel
> because they like to build the kernel on their own. You still can do
> this with genkernel. I've been doing it for years.
>
> This is my workflow after I merged a new kernel
>
> # copy old config to new kernel sources
> % zcat /proc/config.gz > /usr/src/linux/.config
>
> # enter source dir
> % cd /usr/src/linux
>
> # run make oldconfig (help you keep things lean, keeps you familiar with
> the capabilities of current and future systems.....)
> % make oldconfig
>
> # compile kernel and modules, generate initrd, install to /boot and
> /lib/modules, create symlinks in /boot
> % genkernel all
>
> # recompile 3rd party modules
> % module-rebuild rebuild
>
> You just have to tell genkernel not to "make mrproper" in
> /etc/genkernel.conf - so that it actually uses your kernel config, and
> in essence, let's you "build your own kernel". I also tell genkernel not
> to run "make clean" - for a faster recompile if I have changed my kernel
> config.
>
> I love genkernel, it just makes life so much easier, you don't have
> enter every command manually. And still keeps it the gentoo-way: you can
> configure everything so that it does exactly what you wan't.
>
> Just take a look at /etc/genkernel.conf
> genkernel can do even more stuff for you.
> For example include a copy of /etc/mdadm.conf into your initramfs so
> that the initramfs can mount your software raid (even with metadata
> higher than 0.90 - this is where the kernel raid auto assembly fails).
> Or enable a splash theme for a graphical boot - if you like that sort of
> thing.
>
> I'm sure you're gonna love it to after you have used it for some time.
>
>


I tried genkernel and it was a miserable failure for me. So, for me, I
have no desire to use it. I have also read where others have the same
experience so it is not just me. It may work fine for some but for
others it does not.

I plan to keep making mine the manual way. You can keep using genkernel
if you want.

BTW, mine is like this:

copy old config
make oldconfig
make all && make modules_install
copy kernel to /boot

That to me seems a LOT easier and it also works very well for me.

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or
how you interpreted my words!

Miss the compile output? Hint:
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--quiet-build=n"
 
Old 03-27-2012, 05:09 PM
Mark Knecht
 
Default InitRAMFS - boot expert sought

On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Michael Hampicke wrote:
<SNIP>
>>
>> I don't understand why people always say that they hate genkernel
>> because they like to build the kernel on their own. You still can do
>> this with genkernel. I've been doing it for years.
<SNIP>
>
>
> I tried genkernel and it was a miserable failure for me. *So, for me, I
> have no desire to use it. *I have also read where others have the same
> experience so it is not just me. *It may work fine for some but for
> others it does not.
>
> I plan to keep making mine the manual way. *You can keep using genkernel
> if you want.
>
> BTW, mine is like this:
>
> copy old config
> make oldconfig
> make all && make modules_install
> copy kernel to /boot
>
> That to me seems a LOT easier and it also works very well for me.
>
> Dale
>
> :-) *:-)

Until you add in the work of doing the initrd for each new kernel. I
think that's Michael's point.

I agree with you Dale. I do it the same way as you, except if I build
an initrd I've done it completely by hand, building the whole
directory structure, etc, then building it into the binary. That's a
lot of work. Today we have two tools I know of, genkernel & dracut,
that are represented as doing this work for us. I'm interested in what
genkernel did wrong for you, as well as how to use both tools
successfully.

- Mark
 
Old 03-27-2012, 05:35 PM
"Mike Edenfield"
 
Default InitRAMFS - boot expert sought

> From: Dale [mailto:rdalek1967@gmail.com]

> Mike Edenfield wrote:

> > I'm pretty sure that a stable Dracut is a prerequisite for a stable
> > udev-182+. Hopefully with more people taking interest in using an
> > initramfs it will stabilize quickly. It's working for me on all of the
> > systems I'm tried it, so I'm going to try switching a couple of
> > servers at work over to using it. But none of them have anything
> > particularly complex (no net boots, for example) so I don't know how
> > much of a test case they'll be

> I'm still trying to figure out why my dracut init thingy isn't working right. If I
> use the init thingy, I can't su to root from a user. If I don't use the init thingy,
> I can su just fine. By the way, I boot the exact same kernel either way I boot.

So, just to make sure I'm understanding you here (cuz it sounds kinda crazy)

If you specify a dracut-created inittramfs in your grub.conf, your machine boots, but using 'su' to go from root -> non-root fails?
If you remove the initrd line from grub.conf and boot the exact same kernel, 'su' works fine?
What's the error? Cuz once the pivot_root step happens and the real init is running, things in user-space should be *exactly* the same as if you had no initramfs.

--Mike
 
Old 03-27-2012, 06:30 PM
Dale
 
Default InitRAMFS - boot expert sought

Mike Edenfield wrote:
>> From: Dale [mailto:rdalek1967@gmail.com]
>
>> Mike Edenfield wrote:
>
>>> I'm pretty sure that a stable Dracut is a prerequisite for a stable
>>> udev-182+. Hopefully with more people taking interest in using an
>>> initramfs it will stabilize quickly. It's working for me on all of the
>>> systems I'm tried it, so I'm going to try switching a couple of
>>> servers at work over to using it. But none of them have anything
>>> particularly complex (no net boots, for example) so I don't know how
>>> much of a test case they'll be
>
>> I'm still trying to figure out why my dracut init thingy isn't working right. If I
>> use the init thingy, I can't su to root from a user. If I don't use the init thingy,
>> I can su just fine. By the way, I boot the exact same kernel either way I boot.
>
> So, just to make sure I'm understanding you here (cuz it sounds kinda crazy)
>
> If you specify a dracut-created inittramfs in your grub.conf, your machine boots, but using 'su' to go from root -> non-root fails?
> If you remove the initrd line from grub.conf and boot the exact same kernel, 'su' works fine?
> What's the error? Cuz once the pivot_root step happens and the real init is running, things in user-space should be *exactly* the same as if you had no initramfs.
>
> --Mike
>
>
>


The other way around. When I boot using the init thingy, if I login as
a user, dale in this case, I can not su to root. I think the error was
something like authentication failed or something to that effect.

I can reboot the exact same kernel but omit the init part, everything
works fine. I even tried different kernels and it still does it.

The reason it is a issue for me is that I use Konsole within KDE to
emerge, edit config files and such. When I use the init thingy, none of
those work. I get a error about paths being wrong or incorrect
password. If I reboot without the init thingy, it works fine. I can't
find any difference other than the init thingy being used.

Weird, yea, but it sure doesn't work here. I found me another drive the
other day. May be trying Kubuntu here pretty soon. This udev and /usr
crap is just getting on my nerves. I don't have a lot of them left and
I need to save the few I do have. At least by using something else, I
don't have to fiddle with the crap and installs to fix things are a LOT
quicker. I mentioned this before but it is just getting closer and
closer. First time my system fails to boot because of this mess, it's
decision time.

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or
how you interpreted my words!

Miss the compile output? Hint:
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--quiet-build=n"
 
Old 03-27-2012, 07:27 PM
Sebastian Beßler
 
Default InitRAMFS - boot expert sought

On 27.03.2012 20:30, Dale wrote:
> May be trying Kubuntu here pretty soon.

Be prepared for hard times using Kubuntu as it is now no major part of
the Ubuntu family anymore. That means much less money and much less
manpower. And if this issue with a init-thingy bothers you, Kubuntu will
be living hell. As long as (K)Ubuntu works everything is fine, but in
case of an error you just can't fix it. Everything is close tight to
everything else. Change on thing and all fails.

Greetings

Sebastian
 
Old 03-27-2012, 08:04 PM
Dale
 
Default InitRAMFS - boot expert sought

Sebastian Beßler wrote:
> On 27.03.2012 20:30, Dale wrote:
>> May be trying Kubuntu here pretty soon.
>
> Be prepared for hard times using Kubuntu as it is now no major part of
> the Ubuntu family anymore. That means much less money and much less
> manpower. And if this issue with a init-thingy bothers you, Kubuntu will
> be living hell. As long as (K)Ubuntu works everything is fine, but in
> case of an error you just can't fix it. Everything is close tight to
> everything else. Change on thing and all fails.
>
> Greetings
>
> Sebastian
>


Well, based on my experience with Mandrake back in the day, the init
thingy is going to break for me here just like it did there. I'm
thinking about Kubuntu but I may actually decide on something else.
Thing is, it appears Gentoo is going to break my system so I may as well
find something that I can install lots quicker to fix what is broke.
Kubuntu is just one option. I installed it for my brother and it works
fine, SO FAR.

I may be jumping out of the frying pan into a fire but I think I need to
at least try something else. This is very true if I continue to have
issues with the init thingy and not being able to su to root. I know
how to use a console but I only use it when needed. That's not very
often and I sort of like it that way.

Barring that, I could just put everything on / and just hope nothing
goes bonkers and fills it up with useless errors or something in the
messages file. I have had this happen before and /var was full, I mean
FULL. I divide things so that I don't get conquered when it hits the fan.

One thing about Linux, it has a LOT of options.

Oh, there is talk of moving more things on -dev. If I didn't know
better, I'd think someone was trying to just change Gentoo until it
doesn't work any more. I dunno. Maybe I'm ready for a Apple now. o_O

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or
how you interpreted my words!

Miss the compile output? Hint:
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--quiet-build=n"
 
Old 03-27-2012, 08:07 PM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default InitRAMFS - boot expert sought

On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 10:09:23 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:

> > copy old config
> > make oldconfig
> > make all && make modules_install
> > copy kernel to /boot

make all modules_install install

does everything the last two lines do in a single command.
> >
> > That to me seems a LOT easier and it also works very well for me.

> Until you add in the work of doing the initrd for each new kernel. I
> think that's Michael's point.

make all with build the initramfs, just set the source path in the kernel
config.

> I agree with you Dale. I do it the same way as you, except if I build
> an initrd I've done it completely by hand, building the whole
> directory structure, etc, then building it into the binary. That's a
> lot of work.

Yes it is, I now I used to waste my time like that. Now I have a config
file that lists what needs to go into the initramfs and the kernel build
automatically pulls everything in for me. The only other thing I need is
the init script. So I get the benefit of hand crafting everything with
the ease of automated building.


--
Neil Bothwick

"Meow" <SPLAT!> "Woof" <SPLAT!> Jeez, it's really raining today.
 
Old 03-27-2012, 08:09 PM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default InitRAMFS - boot expert sought

On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 13:30:41 -0500, Dale wrote:

> The other way around. When I boot using the init thingy, if I login as
> a user, dale in this case, I can not su to root. I think the error was
> something like authentication failed or something to that effect.
>
> I can reboot the exact same kernel but omit the init part, everything
> works fine. I even tried different kernels and it still does it.

What is in the init script in your initramfs?


--
Neil Bothwick

Headline: "Explosion At Sperm Bank, Nurses Overcome"
 
Old 03-27-2012, 08:23 PM
Michael Mol
 
Default InitRAMFS - boot expert sought

On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sebastian Beßler wrote:
>> On 27.03.2012 20:30, Dale wrote:
>>> May be trying Kubuntu here pretty soon.
>>
>> Be prepared for hard times using Kubuntu as it is now no major part of
>> the Ubuntu family anymore. That means much less money and much less
>> manpower. And if this issue with a init-thingy bothers you, Kubuntu will
>> be living hell. As long as (K)Ubuntu works everything is fine, but in
>> case of an error you just can't fix it. Everything is close tight to
>> everything else. Change on thing and all fails.
>>
>> Greetings
>>
>> Sebastian
>>
>
>
> Well, based on my experience with Mandrake back in the day, the init
> thingy is going to break for me here just like it did there. *I'm
> thinking about Kubuntu but I may actually decide on something else.
> Thing is, it appears Gentoo is going to break my system so I may as well
> find something that I can install lots quicker to fix what is broke.
> Kubuntu is just one option. *I installed it for my brother and it works
> fine, SO FAR.
>
> I may be jumping out of the frying pan into a fire but I think I need to
> at least try something else. *This is very true if I continue to have
> issues with the init thingy and not being able to su to root. *I know
> how to use a console but I only use it when needed. *That's not very
> often and I sort of like it that way.
>
> Barring that, I could just put everything on / and just hope nothing
> goes bonkers and fills it up with useless errors or something in the
> messages file. *I have had this happen before and /var was full, I mean
> FULL. *I divide things so that I don't get conquered when it hits the fan.
>
> One thing about Linux, it has a LOT of options.
>
> Oh, there is talk of moving more things on -dev. *If I didn't know
> better, I'd think someone was trying to just change Gentoo until it
> doesn't work any more. *I dunno. * Maybe I'm ready for a Apple now. *o_O

The reason I like Gentoo (and why I've moved so much stuff to it) is
because it lets me get in and have much finer _optional_ control over
many things with minimal fuss. Ubuntu-derived distributions make it
very, very difficult to change very, very many things, while retaining
an update-stable setup. As long as you don't have to stray to far from
their One True Way, Ubuntu (or most Linux distros, actually) should be
fine. The annoying thing about Ubuntu is how their One True Way
changes dramatically every six months to a year.

--
:wq
 
Old 03-27-2012, 08:36 PM
Dale
 
Default InitRAMFS - boot expert sought

Mark Knecht wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Michael Hampicke wrote:
> <SNIP>
>>>
>>> I don't understand why people always say that they hate genkernel
>>> because they like to build the kernel on their own. You still can do
>>> this with genkernel. I've been doing it for years.
> <SNIP>
>>
>>
>> I tried genkernel and it was a miserable failure for me. So, for me, I
>> have no desire to use it. I have also read where others have the same
>> experience so it is not just me. It may work fine for some but for
>> others it does not.
>>
>> I plan to keep making mine the manual way. You can keep using genkernel
>> if you want.
>>
>> BTW, mine is like this:
>>
>> copy old config
>> make oldconfig
>> make all && make modules_install
>> copy kernel to /boot
>>
>> That to me seems a LOT easier and it also works very well for me.
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-) :-)
>
> Until you add in the work of doing the initrd for each new kernel. I
> think that's Michael's point.
>
> I agree with you Dale. I do it the same way as you, except if I build
> an initrd I've done it completely by hand, building the whole
> directory structure, etc, then building it into the binary. That's a
> lot of work. Today we have two tools I know of, genkernel & dracut,
> that are represented as doing this work for us. I'm interested in what
> genkernel did wrong for you, as well as how to use both tools
> successfully.
>
> - Mark
>
>


Thing is, I can't get dracut to boot a system as I use it. See my other
post. Right now, my plan is to mask udev at what it is and either
switch to another distro, hope someone figures out why dracut isn't
working or just move everything to / and hope it doesn't ever screw up
right after I go to bed and full up / with errors in the messages file.
I had this happen once. Having /var on it's own partition was the only
thing that saved my butt.

The thing about switching to a distro that uses a init thingy, I don't
have to mess with it. Someone else makes the stupid thing.

Just weighing out my options. There are lots of things to weigh to.

Dale

:-) :-)

--
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or
how you interpreted my words!

Miss the compile output? Hint:
EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS="--quiet-build=n"
 

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