FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Gentoo > Gentoo User

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 03-12-2012, 06:42 PM
pk
 
Default Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failu-(

On 2012-03-12 10:24, Alan Mackenzie wrote:

>> #!/bin/busybox ash
>> mount -t proc proc /proc
>> mount -t sysfs sysfs /sys
>> exec /sbin/init

> How do I know whether my /sbin/linuxrc actually ran? Maybe, I mean how
> can I be sure my "append = "init=/sbin/linuxrc"" actually worked?

Well, you can always put in:

echo "linuxrc executing!"
sleep 5s #I put this here since I suspect it will flash by...

before the 'exec /sbin/init' line (or the mount lines) in the linuxrc
script above...

HTH

Best regards

Peter K
 
Old 03-13-2012, 06:14 AM
"Walter Dnes"
 
Default Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failu-(

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 09:24:32AM +0000, Alan Mackenzie wrote

> Help would be appreciated.

Sorry, mdev is not for you, it looks like udev is a mandatory
dependancy for lvm2. I tried "emerge -pv lvm2" and it came back with...

waltdnes@d530 ~ $ emerge -pv lvm2

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!

!!! All ebuilds that could satisfy ">=sys-fs/udev-151-r4" have been masked.
!!! One of the following masked packages is required to complete your request:
- sys-fs/udev-9999::gentoo (masked by: package.mask, missing keyword)
/etc/portage/package.mask:

I'll update my instructions to mention this. Thanks for your help.
Even a negative result, i.e. knowing what doesn't work, is one more
piece of information in my quest.

--
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
 
Old 03-13-2012, 06:33 AM
"Walter Dnes"
 
Default Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failu-(

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 09:24:32AM +0000, Alan Mackenzie wrote

Once you're back to your old setup, can you do me a favour? Please do
the following...

1) Add the line...

sys-fs/udev

to /etc/portage/package.mask.


2) Run the 2 commands
emerge -pv system > system.txt
emerge -pv world > world.txt

3) Remove the "sys-fs/udev" entry from /etc/portage/package.mask.

and gzip or zip the files system.txt and world.txt and file-attach them.
My guess is that at the end of world.txt, there will be a complaint
about udev being masked. I intend to add that sanity-check to the
instructions, so that people will know ahead of time whether or not
they'll run into this problem.

Again, sorry about putting you through this trouble. You did what a
beta tester is supposed to do, i.e. find problems/bugs.

--
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
 
Old 03-13-2012, 06:00 PM
"Walter Dnes"
 
Default Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failu-(

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 01:05:34PM +0000, Alan Mackenzie wrote

> I also did "2> {system,world}.err". system.err was empty. I've included
> world.err in the enclosed tarball.

From your error listing, it looks like lvm2, kde, and gnome (including
the XFCE subset) require udev. Ouch.

--
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
 
Old 03-13-2012, 07:27 PM
Canek Peláez Valdés
 
Default Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failu-(

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> wrote:
> Hello, Walter,
>
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 03:00:52PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 01:05:34PM +0000, Alan Mackenzie wrote
>
>> > I also did "2> {system,world}.err". *system.err was empty. *I've included
>> > world.err in the enclosed tarball.
>
>> * From your error listing, it looks like lvm2, kde, and gnome (including
>> the XFCE subset) require udev. *Ouch.
>
> :-) *This cannot be the case. *Otherwise somebody would have said. *Hmm.
> What we could do with is a "requires xdev", for x in (m u). *I've
> forgotten what that's called in portage.
>
> There are surely lots of packages marked "need udev" which don't really
> need it at all. *I mean, are there any programs which need precisely
> udev to work, as opposed to a populated /dev?
>
> I mean, what does udev give me that mdev won't? *That's not really a
> rhetorical question. *What potential benefits am I throwing away by
> converting to mdev?

From my desktop:

centurion ~ # equery depends udev
* These packages depend on udev:
dev-libs/libatasmart-0.18 (>=sys-fs/udev-143)
dev-python/python-gudev-147.2 (>=sys-fs/udev-171[gudev])
(>=sys-fs/udev-147[extras])
gnome-base/gnome-settings-daemon-3.2.2-r1 (packagekit ? sys-fs/udev[gudev])
(packagekit ? sys-fs/udev[extras])
(udev ? sys-fs/udev[gudev])
(udev ? sys-fs/udev[extras])
gnome-base/gvfs-1.10.1 (!prefix ? >=sys-fs/udev-164-r2)
(>=sys-fs/udev-171[gudev])
(>=sys-fs/udev-145[extras])
media-gfx/shotwell-0.11.6 (>=sys-fs/udev-171[gudev])
(>=sys-fs/udev-145[extras])
media-libs/libcanberra-0.28-r5 (udev ? >=sys-fs/udev-160)
media-libs/libgpod-0.8.0 (udev ? sys-fs/udev)
media-libs/mesa-7.11.2 (gbm ? sys-fs/udev)
media-sound/pulseaudio-1.1-r1 (udev ? >=sys-fs/udev-171[hwdb])
(udev ? >=sys-fs/udev-143[extras])
media-sound/rhythmbox-2.95 (>=sys-fs/udev-171[gudev])
(>=sys-fs/udev-145[extras])
media-video/cheese-3.2.2 (>=sys-fs/udev-171[gudev])
(>=sys-fs/udev-145-r1[extras])
net-im/empathy-3.2.2 (v4l ? sys-fs/udev[gudev])
(v4l ? sys-fs/udev[extras])
net-misc/networkmanager-0.9.2.0-r5 (>=sys-fs/udev-171[gudev])
(>=sys-fs/udev-147[extras])
net-wireless/bluez-4.98-r2 (>=sys-fs/udev-169)
net-wireless/gnome-bluetooth-3.2.2 (sys-fs/udev)
sys-apps/systemd-43-r1 (>=sys-fs/udev-172)
sys-fs/lvm2-2.02.88 (>=sys-fs/udev-151-r4)
sys-fs/udisks-1.0.4-r1 (>=sys-fs/udev-171[gudev])
(>=sys-fs/udev-147[extras])
sys-kernel/dracut-017-r2 (>=sys-fs/udev-164)
sys-power/upower-0.9.15 (kernel_linux ? >=sys-fs/udev-171-r1[gudev])
(kernel_linux ? <sys-fs/udev-171-r1[extras])
virtual/dev-manager-0 (sys-fs/udev)
x11-base/xorg-server-1.11.2-r2 (udev ? >=sys-fs/udev-150)
x11-libs/cairo-1.10.2-r1 (drm ? >=sys-fs/udev-136)
x11-misc/colord-0.1.15 (udev ? sys-fs/udev[gudev])
(udev ? sys-fs/udev[extras])

I don't know exactly what packages actually *require* udev. What I can
say with some certainty is that more and more "maistream" packages
will require udev either directly or indirectly (by some dep).

You will lose those with mdev.

"Fringe" programs will not require udev, or it will be optional; but
the moment a "fringe" program reaches critical mass to become
"maistream", the probability of it needing udev (directly or
indirectly) will increase.

I'm willing to bet a beer on that prediction.

Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
 
Old 03-13-2012, 07:54 PM
"Bruce Hill, Jr."
 
Default Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failu-(

On March 13, 2012 at 4:27 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés" <caneko@gmail.com>
wrote:
<snip>
>
> "Fringe" programs will not require udev, or it will be optional; but
> the moment a "fringe" program reaches critical mass to become
> "maistream", the probability of it needing udev (directly or
> indirectly) will increase.
>
> I'm willing to bet a beer on that prediction.
>
> Regards.
> --
> Canek Peláez Valdés



It _sounds_ like your definition of a "fringe" program is one that does not
need udev; but when it becomes "mainstream" it will need udev. If not, you
write us the definition of a "fringe" program and a "mainstream" program.

Excuse me, but that's just incredibly _arrogant_!

I wasn't getting into this ridiculous discussion, but your irresponsible
ranting...

Yes, I dedicate my "Linux life" to killing FUD, and that post of yours is
FUD!

I'm from the South, where FUD is colloquially called bull<manure>. <:-)}

Below are some "mainstream" programs that my every computer on the LAN in
my computer business uses _every_ day which don't require udev:

x11-terms/rxvt-unicode
app-editors/vim
net-misc/dhcpcd
...

The more I think about your arrogance, the more ticked off I get! Here's
the very few packages on my workstation that _do_ require udev:

mingdao@workstation ~ $ equery depends udev
* These packages depend on udev:
media-libs/libcanberra-0.28-r5 (udev ? >=sys-fs/udev-160)
media-libs/mesa-7.11.2 (gbm ? sys-fs/udev)
media-video/vlc-1.1.13 (udev ? >=sys-fs/udev-142)
net-print/hplip-3.11.10 (acl ? >=sys-fs/udev-171[acl])
(acl ? >=sys-fs/udev-145[extras])
(kernel_linux ? >=sys-fs/udev-114)
sys-fs/lvm2-2.02.88 (>=sys-fs/udev-151-r4)
virtual/dev-manager-0 (sys-fs/udev)
x11-base/xorg-server-1.11.2-r2 (udev ? >=sys-fs/udev-150)
x11-libs/cairo-1.10.2-r1 (drm ? >=sys-fs/udev-136)
x11-libs/libva-1.0.15 (video_cards_dummy ? sys-fs/udev)

Perhaps it would be ridiculously easy to get rid of udev on this box. But,
that's not the point I'm making here.

It's not so much that udev is evil, to me; but that requiring an initrd is
stupid.
And, it's not so much udev vs. mdev or whatever, but that your attitude
_STINKS_!

Geez...
--
Happy Penguin Computers >`)
126 Fenco Drive (
Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^
662-269-2706; 662-491-8613
support at happypenguincomputers dot com
http://www.happypenguincomputers.com
 
Old 03-13-2012, 08:22 PM
Canek Peláez Valdés
 
Default Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failu-(

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr.
<daddy@happypenguincomputers.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On March 13, 2012 at 4:27 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés" <caneko@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> <snip>
>>
>> "Fringe" programs will not require udev, or it will be optional; but
>> the moment a "fringe" program reaches critical mass to become
>> "maistream", the probability of it needing udev (directly or
>> indirectly) will increase.
>>
>> I'm willing to bet a beer on that prediction.
>>
>> Regards.
>> --
>> Canek Peláez Valdés
>
>
>
> It _sounds_ like your definition of a "fringe" program is one that does not
> need udev; but when it becomes "mainstream" it will need udev. If not, you
> write us the definition of a "fringe" program and a "mainstream" program.
>
> Excuse me, but that's just incredibly _arrogant_!

Relax man. That's why "fringe" is written QUOTE fringe UNQUOTE, and
"mainstream" is written QUOTE mainstream UNQUOTE. If it makes you
happy, replace "fringe" with "GNOME/KDE/XFCE/lvm2-not-related" and
"mainstream" with "GNOME/KDE/XFCE/lvm2-related". That's using the very
same definition that Walter (the guy behind the mdev-instead-of-udev
effort) used just three mails below (or above, depending on your email
client).

Please chill, no need to get all worked out.

And I maintain my prediction.

Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
 
Old 03-13-2012, 08:33 PM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failu-(

On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:07:37 +0000, Alan Mackenzie wrote:

> But I really meant what functionality udev has that mdev lacks. For
> example, mdev this morning recognised my USB stick being inserted, and
> created /dev/sdc for it.

udev does a *lot* more than that, for example the persistent naming of
network interfaces. More significantly, it can run programs based on
device rules. For example, usb_modeswitch installs a udev rule to switch a
3G USB modem from CD to modem mode, without which it won't work. That's
fine when you plug it into a running system, but when you boot with it
plugged in, it can trip over itself because the usb_modeswitch executable
is in /usr/sbin.

You could use this to argue that /usr should be mounted before udev is
started, but you could just as well use it to argue that udev should not
be trying to run such rules at the boot runlevel.


--
Neil Bothwick

... "I dropped my toothpaste," Tom said, Crestfallen.
 
Old 03-13-2012, 08:35 PM
"Bruce Hill, Jr."
 
Default Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failu-(

On March 13, 2012 at 5:22 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés" <caneko@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr.
> <daddy@happypenguincomputers.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On March 13, 2012 at 4:27 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés" <caneko@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > <snip>
> >>
> >> "Fringe" programs will not require udev, or it will be optional; but
> >> the moment a "fringe" program reaches critical mass to become
> >> "maistream", the probability of it needing udev (directly or
> >> indirectly) will increase.
> >>
> >> I'm willing to bet a beer on that prediction.
> >>
> >> Regards.
> >> --
> >> Canek Peláez Valdés
> >
> >
> >
> > It _sounds_ like your definition of a "fringe" program is one that does
not
> > need udev; but when it becomes "mainstream" it will need udev. If not,
you
> > write us the definition of a "fringe" program and a "mainstream"
program.
> >
> > Excuse me, but that's just incredibly _arrogant_!
>
> Relax man. That's why "fringe" is written QUOTE fringe UNQUOTE, and
> "mainstream" is written QUOTE mainstream UNQUOTE. If it makes you
> happy, replace "fringe" with "GNOME/KDE/XFCE/lvm2-not-related" and
> "mainstream" with "GNOME/KDE/XFCE/lvm2-related". That's using the very
> same definition that Walter (the guy behind the mdev-instead-of-udev
> effort) used just three mails below (or above, depending on your email
> client).
>
> Please chill, no need to get all worked out.
>
> And I maintain my prediction.
>
> Regards.
> --
> Canek Peláez Valdés


So, what qualifies for "the moment a "fringe" program reaches critical mass
to become "maistream", the probability of it needing udev (directly or
indirectly) will increase."

Again, quoting _your_ definition.

I gave you examples of programs which have reached critical mass, which
don't require udev.

And, I'm not attaching your character, for I know you not ... just
attacking your FUD!
--
Happy Penguin Computers >`)
126 Fenco Drive (
Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^
662-269-2706; 662-491-8613
support at happypenguincomputers dot com
http://www.happypenguincomputers.com
 
Old 03-13-2012, 08:49 PM
Canek Peláez Valdés
 
Default Beta test Gentoo with mdev instead of udev; version 5 - failu-(

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr.
<daddy@happypenguincomputers.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On March 13, 2012 at 5:22 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés" <caneko@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 2:54 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr.
>> <daddy@happypenguincomputers.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On March 13, 2012 at 4:27 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés" <caneko@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > <snip>
>> >>
>> >> "Fringe" programs will not require udev, or it will be optional; but
>> >> the moment a "fringe" program reaches critical mass to become
>> >> "maistream", the probability of it needing udev (directly or
>> >> indirectly) will increase.
>> >>
>> >> I'm willing to bet a beer on that prediction.
>> >>
>> >> Regards.
>> >> --
>> >> Canek Peláez Valdés
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > It _sounds_ like your definition of a "fringe" program is one that does
> not
>> > need udev; but when it becomes "mainstream" it will need udev. If not,
> you
>> > write us the definition of a "fringe" program and a "mainstream"
> program.
>> >
>> > Excuse me, but that's just incredibly _arrogant_!
>>
>> Relax man. That's why "fringe" is written QUOTE fringe UNQUOTE, and
>> "mainstream" is written QUOTE mainstream UNQUOTE. If it makes you
>> happy, replace "fringe" with "GNOME/KDE/XFCE/lvm2-not-related" and
>> "mainstream" with "GNOME/KDE/XFCE/lvm2-related". That's using the very
>> same definition that Walter (the guy behind the mdev-instead-of-udev
>> effort) used just three mails below (or above, depending on your email
>> client).
>>
>> Please chill, no need to get all worked out.
>>
>> And I maintain my prediction.
>>
>> Regards.
>> --
>> Canek Peláez Valdés
>
>
> So, what qualifies for "the moment a "fringe" program reaches critical mass
> to become "maistream", the probability of it needing udev (directly or
> indirectly) will increase."

Just what I was saying: I said (right there) "the probability of it
needing udev (directly or indirectly) will increase." I did not say it
would *need* udev for sure; just that the probability of it needing
udev would increase.

I'm not spreading FUD; I'm just stating my opinion. And I stick to it;
wanna bet that beer?

Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 09:03 AM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright ©2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org