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Old 12-08-2011, 11:44 AM
Alex Schuster
 
Default How can I keep baselayout-1?

James Broadhead writes:

> On 8 December 2011 11:17, Jarry <mr.jarry@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I just upgraded gcc and after switching to the new version
> > I want to update system too.
> > But it wants to emerge
> > baselayout-2 as dependency of system:
> >
> > !!! All ebuilds that could satisfy "sys-apps/baselayout" have
> > !!! been masked. One of the following masked packages is required
> > !!! to complete your request:
> > - sys-apps/baselayout-2.1::gentoo (masked by: package.mask,
> > *~amd64 keyword)
> > /etc/portage/package.mask:
> > - sys-apps/baselayout-2.0.3::gentoo (masked by: package.mask)
> > (dependency required by "@system" [argument])
> >
> > I do not want to upgrade to baselayout-2, but I want to
> > re-emerge system. So how can I do it now, when all 1.x
> > versions have been removed from portage?
>
> I think that the standard answer is "you can't". I mean, you could
> fetch an old copy of the ebuild from cvs, and add it to a local
> overlay, but you'd be completely unsupported (unsupportable?).

The ebuilds of currently installed packages can also be found
as /var/db/pkg/<category>/<package>/<package>.ebuild.
They are masked now, but when putting the packages
in /etc/portage/package.unmask it should be possible to install them
again.

> A better question would be - Why do you want to?

Probably in order to deal with potential migration problems later, and
not risking to harm a system that is currently running fine. The
migration should be a smooth one, but some manual changes have to be
made, and the syntax in /etc/conf.d/net has changed.

But I'd just wait with the system update, and make the switch when I have
some time.

Wonko
 
Old 12-08-2011, 01:41 PM
Jarry
 
Default How can I keep baselayout-1?

On 08-Dec-11 12:26, James Broadhead wrote:


I do not want to upgrade to baselayout-2, but I want to
re-emerge system. So how can I do it now, when all 1.x
versions have been removed from portage?


I think that the standard answer is "you can't". I mean, you could
fetch an old copy of the ebuild from cvs, and add it to a local
overlay, but you'd be completely unsupported (unsupportable?).

A better question would be - Why do you want to?


This server is ~50 miles away, and if I screw something
and it does not boot up, I will have to go there and fix it
on place. One small typo in ~50 config-files which must be
updated is just enough to cause it...

Anyway I'm surprised that everything older than 2.0.3
has been simply thrown overboard, especially while it
worked for us without a problem for many years...

Jarry

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Old 12-08-2011, 01:54 PM
James Broadhead
 
Default How can I keep baselayout-1?

On 8 December 2011 14:41, Jarry <mr.jarry@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 08-Dec-11 12:26, James Broadhead wrote:
>
>>> I do not want to upgrade to baselayout-2, but I want to
>>> re-emerge system. So how can I do it now, when all 1.x
>>> versions have been removed from portage?
>>
>>
>> I think that the standard answer is "you can't". I mean, you could
>> fetch an old copy of the ebuild from cvs, and add it to a local
>> overlay, but you'd be completely unsupported (unsupportable?).
>>
>> A better question would be - Why do you want to?
>
>
> This server is ~50 miles away, and if I screw something
> and it does not boot up, I will have to go there and fix it
> on place. One small typo in ~50 config-files which must be
> updated is just enough to cause it...
>
> Anyway I'm surprised that everything older than 2.0.3
> has been simply thrown overboard, especially while it
> worked for us without a problem for many years...

Personally, I quite like baselayout-2, and had a smooth time upgrading
my 3 boxes - two in advance of stabilisation and one which did the
baselayout upgrade as part of a normal upgrade. I only noticed when
the latter asked me to merge the config files :P

I suppose that your options for packages which depend back to
baselayout are to hack their various config files / init scripts to
make them baselayout-1 compatible, or to avoid upgrading them.

You could clone your current install into a new /root, upgrade and set
grub to boot into /root one time only, then to fall back to /bakroot.
Slightly outside my expertise, but grub can be told to boot one option
by default just once, and then to return to a different default
subsequently.

Good luck!
 
Old 12-08-2011, 01:55 PM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default How can I keep baselayout-1?

On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 15:41:38 +0100
Jarry <mr.jarry@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 08-Dec-11 12:26, James Broadhead wrote:
>
> >> I do not want to upgrade to baselayout-2, but I want to
> >> re-emerge system. So how can I do it now, when all 1.x
> >> versions have been removed from portage?
> >
> > I think that the standard answer is "you can't". I mean, you could
> > fetch an old copy of the ebuild from cvs, and add it to a local
> > overlay, but you'd be completely unsupported (unsupportable?).
> >
> > A better question would be - Why do you want to?
>
> This server is ~50 miles away, and if I screw something
> and it does not boot up, I will have to go there and fix it
> on place. One small typo in ~50 config-files which must be
> updated is just enough to cause it...
>
> Anyway I'm surprised that everything older than 2.0.3
> has been simply thrown overboard, especially while it
> worked for us without a problem for many years...

KDE-2 and even KDE-3 also worked just fine for many years. Those are
not in the tree either.

baselayout and openrc changes over the past year were not done on a
whim, it has been leading up to this for about 3 years if not more.

The external apparancy is that the old versions worked and everything
was just fine. But the actual problems with it were many, here's a few:

1. too many things in baselayout had legacy problems attached, files in
odd places, file that were inconsistent with everything else
2. it had a hard dependancy on bash, which is a rather bad thing, it
means you have to have bash installed on anything using Gentoo. What if
your platform did not support bash, or didn't support it well?
3. the init system itself was creaking and groaning a lot and becoming
a maintenance burden

Things do change over time, bits do rot, and periodically legacy shit
needs to be turfed. People resist change for very little good reason
(as you are currently doing) and prefer to only think of their own
little space and not the big picture.

This is what happened with baselayout. All reasonable prior steps that
techies like to have done with migrations were done, there was more
than adequate notice, and all discussions were out in the open. Really,
the presence of baselayout-2 is good and the absence of baselayout-1 is
better.

You haven't been left out in the cold with no way forward. You were
given notice, you chose to not act on it, so the maintenance burden
shifts to you. This is the general contract between gentoos devs and
users. Portage gives you all the tools you need to maintain your
systems at current levels, so you CAN keep it as-is until your next
maintenence windows on that server 50 miles away when you intend being
in the room.

Some recent decisions in gentoo-land about what to deprecate and when
have indeed been questionable, but in all honesty baselayout is not one
of them.


--
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com
 
Old 12-08-2011, 02:27 PM
"Albert W. Hopkins"
 
Default How can I keep baselayout-1?

On Thu, 2011-12-08 at 15:41 +0100, Jarry wrote:
> Anyway I'm surprised that everything older than 2.0.3
> has been simply thrown overboard, especially while it
> worked for us without a problem for many years...

With all due respect, baselayout-2/openrc has been around for a while
too (I've been using it for at least 3 years) and has been deemed stable
enough to move to the stable trees. And version 2 has been in stable
for quite some time. You can't blame the volunteer developers for not
wanting to have to support 2 versions of the software indefinitely.
>
>
 
Old 12-08-2011, 02:34 PM
Michael Orlitzky
 
Default How can I keep baselayout-1?

On 12/08/2011 09:41 AM, Jarry wrote:


This server is ~50 miles away, and if I screw something
and it does not boot up, I will have to go there and fix it
on place.


That's it? If you drive really awesome you can be there in half an hour!
 
Old 12-08-2011, 03:01 PM
Pandu Poluan
 
Default How can I keep baselayout-1?

On Dec 8, 2011 9:46 PM, "Jarry" <mr.jarry@gmail.com> wrote:

>

> This server is ~50 miles away, and if I screw something

> and it does not boot up, I will have to go there and fix it

> on place. One small typo in ~50 config-files which must be

> updated is just enough to cause it...

>


That's why I no longer deploy baremetal servers these days.* Always as a VM on top of a hypervisor, with a small VM dedicated as an SSH tunnel. If I mess up, I can use the hypervisor management tool to reboot the VM, or open a console session, or even revert to a "known good" state.



Rgds,
 
Old 12-08-2011, 11:23 PM
JD Horelick
 
Default How can I keep baselayout-1?

I upgraded 2 systems (both servers, one about 30 miles from me and one
a VPS on another continent) and had zero issues. Unless you have the
king of all obscure setups or you insist on merging config files
by-hand instead of using etc-update or dispatch-conf, there's only a
miniscule chance that you'll have any problems. I'd say go for it.

On 8 December 2011 09:41, Jarry <mr.jarry@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This server is ~50 miles away, and if I screw something
> and it does not boot up, I will have to go there and fix it
> on place. One small typo in ~50 config-files which must be
> updated is just enough to cause it...
>
> Anyway I'm surprised that everything older than 2.0.3
> has been simply thrown overboard, especially while it
> worked for us without a problem for many years...
>
>
> Jarry
>
> --
> __________________________________________________ _____________
> This mailbox accepts e-mails only from selected mailing-lists!
> Everything else is considered to be spam and therefore deleted.
>
 
Old 12-09-2011, 06:16 AM
"J. Roeleveld"
 
Default How can I keep baselayout-1?

On Thu, December 8, 2011 5:01 pm, Pandu Poluan wrote:
> On Dec 8, 2011 9:46 PM, "Jarry" <mr.jarry@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> This server is ~50 miles away, and if I screw something
>> and it does not boot up, I will have to go there and fix it
>> on place. One small typo in ~50 config-files which must be
>> updated is just enough to cause it...
>>
>
> That's why I no longer deploy baremetal servers these days. Always as a
> VM
> on top of a hypervisor, with a small VM dedicated as an SSH tunnel. If I
> mess up, I can use the hypervisor management tool to reboot the VM, or
> open
> a console session, or even revert to a "known good" state.

A seperate machine with serial-console or Ethernet-KVM on the mainboard
also helps. Especially when updating the host

My new servers will all have Ethernet-KVM for this reason.

--
Joost
 
Old 12-09-2011, 08:45 AM
Pandu Poluan
 
Default How can I keep baselayout-1?

On Dec 9, 2011 2:18 PM, "J. Roeleveld" <joost@antarean.org> wrote:

>

> On Thu, December 8, 2011 5:01 pm, Pandu Poluan wrote:

> > On Dec 8, 2011 9:46 PM, "Jarry" <mr.jarry@gmail.com> wrote:

> >>

> >> This server is ~50 miles away, and if I screw something

> >> and it does not boot up, I will have to go there and fix it

> >> on place. One small typo in ~50 config-files which must be

> >> updated is just enough to cause it...

> >>

> >

> > That's why I no longer deploy baremetal servers these days. *Always as a

> > VM

> > on top of a hypervisor, with a small VM dedicated as an SSH tunnel. If I

> > mess up, I can use the hypervisor management tool to reboot the VM, or

> > open

> > a console session, or even revert to a "known good" state.

>

> A seperate machine with serial-console or Ethernet-KVM on the mainboard

> also helps. Especially when updating the host

>

> My new servers will all have Ethernet-KVM for this reason.

>


How I wish I can deploy an Ethernet KVM... my boss thought it was a good idea, until he saw the price tag :-/


Rgds,
 

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