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Old 03-26-2008, 07:08 AM
Michael Schmarck
 
Default Gnome: No sound - "No volume control GStreamer plugins and/or devices found"

Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:

> Perhaps you could file a feature request at b.g.o. to get the old
> behaviour back. It seems entirely reasonable to me that rhythmbox
> should DEPENDs on gst-plugins-base which should conditionally DEPEND
> on -alsa or -oss (or other sound systems).

Isn't that what the gst-plugins-meta package does?

RDEPEND="oss? ( >=media-plugins/gst-plugins-oss-0.10 )
alsa? ( >=media-plugins/gst-plugins-alsa-0.10 )
esd? ( >=media-plugins/gst-plugins-esd-0.10 )
X? ( >=media-plugins/gst-plugins-x-0.10 )
xv? ( >=media-plugins/gst-plugins-xvideo-0.10 )
dvb? ( media-plugins/gst-plugins-dvb
>=media-libs/gst-plugins-bad-0.10.6
>=media-plugins/gst-plugins-fluendo-mpegdemux-0.10.15 )
mythtv? ( media-plugins/gst-plugins-mythtv )"

I filed a bug report at http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=214831.

Michael

PS: Now you're being helpful. Thanks a lot for that!

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Old 03-26-2008, 07:17 PM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default Gnome: No sound - "No volume control GStreamer plugins and/or devices found"

On Wednesday 26 March 2008, Michael Schmarck wrote:
> Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Perhaps you could file a feature request at b.g.o. to get the old
> > behaviour back. It seems entirely reasonable to me that rhythmbox
> > should DEPENDs on gst-plugins-base which should conditionally
> > DEPEND on -alsa or -oss (or other sound systems).
>
> Isn't that what the gst-plugins-meta package does?
>
> RDEPEND="oss? ( >=media-plugins/gst-plugins-oss-0.10 )
> alsa? ( >=media-plugins/gst-plugins-alsa-0.10 )
> esd? ( >=media-plugins/gst-plugins-esd-0.10 )
> X? ( >=media-plugins/gst-plugins-x-0.10 )
> xv? ( >=media-plugins/gst-plugins-xvideo-0.10 )
> dvb? ( media-plugins/gst-plugins-dvb
>
> >=media-libs/gst-plugins-bad-0.10.6
> >
> >=media-plugins/gst-plugins-fluendo-mpegdemux-0.10
> >.15 )
>
> mythtv? ( media-plugins/gst-plugins-mythtv )"
>
> I filed a bug report at
> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=214831.

It all makes sense in a kind of roundabout way:

gst-plugins-meta installs everything, so rhythmbox does not DEPEND on
it - that would force a user to have every possible plugin with no
option to not have them (very much a gentoo no-no). -meta packages tend
to not be DEPENDED on, they are there as a convenience for user that
want everything and can't be bothered to put the whole shebang in
world.

rhythmbox DEPENDS on gst-plugins-base to give you the required framework
that will handle the plugins you want (you get to pick and install them
manually...)

The question now is why were the alsa, oss and other drivers removed
from the -base ebuild? I recall something similar with another sound
app a while ago, the reason is that it could be used as a networked
sound delivery server and there's no good reason to require the user to
have sound driver support on the local machine. I suspect your bug will
be closed WONTFIX, with luck the dev will justify their reasoning.



--
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

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Old 03-27-2008, 09:28 AM
Michael Schmarck
 
Default Gnome: No sound - "No volume control GStreamer plugins and/or devices found"

Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday 26 March 2008, Michael Schmarck wrote:
>> Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Perhaps you could file a feature request at b.g.o. to get the old
>> > behaviour back. It seems entirely reasonable to me that rhythmbox
>> > should DEPENDs on gst-plugins-base which should conditionally
>> > DEPEND on -alsa or -oss (or other sound systems).
>>
>> Isn't that what the gst-plugins-meta package does?
>>
>> RDEPEND="oss? ( >=media-plugins/gst-plugins-oss-0.10 )
>> alsa? ( >=media-plugins/gst-plugins-alsa-0.10 )
>> esd? ( >=media-plugins/gst-plugins-esd-0.10 )
>> X? ( >=media-plugins/gst-plugins-x-0.10 )
>> xv? ( >=media-plugins/gst-plugins-xvideo-0.10 )
>> dvb? ( media-plugins/gst-plugins-dvb
>>
>> >=media-libs/gst-plugins-bad-0.10.6
>> >
>> >=media-plugins/gst-plugins-fluendo-mpegdemux-0.10
>> >.15 )
>>
>> mythtv? ( media-plugins/gst-plugins-mythtv )"
>>
>> I filed a bug report at
>> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=214831.
>
> It all makes sense in a kind of roundabout way:

Does it?

gst-plugins-meta MAY install everything, if all the USE flags
are set. But I don't quite get, why rb (or any other gst using
app) should not depend on it.

> gst-plugins-meta installs everything, so rhythmbox does not DEPEND on
> it - that would force a user to have every possible plugin with no
> option to not have them (very much a gentoo no-no).

Nope, that's not the case.

> -meta packages tend
> to not be DEPENDED on, they are there as a convenience for user that
> want everything and can't be bothered to put the whole shebang in
> world.

But that's not what gst-plugins-meta does. Read the ebuild
again. It features alsa, oss and what-not USE flags. And only
if those flags are set, stuff is installed.

> rhythmbox DEPENDS on gst-plugins-base to give you the required framework
> that will handle the plugins you want (you get to pick and install them
> manually...)

No, that's not the case. Read the bug report and read the bugs
that Jakub pointed out there.

> The question now is why were the alsa, oss and other drivers removed
> from the -base ebuild?

Because they belong to the meta package, I suppose. The real
question rather is, why was rb not updated to depend on -meta.
I filed https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=214852 for that.

> I recall something similar with another sound
> app a while ago, the reason is that it could be used as a networked
> sound delivery server and there's no good reason to require the user to
> have sound driver support on the local machine. I suspect your bug will
> be closed WONTFIX, with luck the dev will justify their reasoning.

If not, I'll reopen it.

Michael

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Old 03-27-2008, 01:56 PM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default Gnome: No sound - "No volume control GStreamer plugins and/or devices found"

On Thursday 27 March 2008, Michael Schmarck wrote:
> > The question now is why were the alsa, oss and other drivers
> > removed from the -base ebuild?
>
> Because they belong to the meta package, I suppose. The real
> question rather is, why was rb not updated to depend on -meta.
> I filed https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=214852 for that.

Good luck with getting a dev to agree to that. I wouldn't, and don't
know a single case in portage where an ebuild DEPENDS on a -meta ebuild
(possible -metas DEPENDING on subordinate -metas excepted)

-meta packages are designed to be manually added to world by users who
wish an easy way to emerge everything. It's not described in policy
anywhere I have ever seen, the actual usage in practise tells you the
intended usage.

Go back and read bug 159470 again, especially comments 3 and 4. The
dependencies you propose cause circular dependency loops and
recompilation of packages that depend on the USE flags when they
change, even when the resulting files installed are EXACTLY the same as
the ones replaced. This is the reason why the USE flags were removed
from the ebuild, to save you from the horror that is circular deps.

> > I recall something similar with another sound
> > app a while ago, the reason is that it could be used as a networked
> > sound delivery server and there's no good reason to require the
> > user to have sound driver support on the local machine. I suspect
> > your bug will be closed WONTFIX, with luck the dev will justify
> > their reasoning.
>
> If not, I'll reopen it.

And Jakob will probably just close it. He's brutal about that, and it's
his job. The problem you are trying to solve would be much better
served with a request for an ELOG to be emitted by rhythmbox alerting
to user to the need to install gst-plugins-whatever.

There's a damn good reason why rhythmbox does does depend on -meta. That
will never happen, so you should get over it. Bug 159470 explains why
it's not a good idea to depend on -base either, so now you get to issue
one more emerge by yourself. These decisions are made taking the entire
Gentoo ecosystem into account and what is best for all users. If you
will be inconvenienced by a step taken for the greater good and there
is no sane way to give you what you'd like, then the loser will be you.
Sorry.

--
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

--
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Old 03-27-2008, 06:20 PM
Michael Schmarck
 
Default Gnome: No sound - "No volume control GStreamer plugins and/or devices found"

Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon <at> gmail.com> writes:

>
> On Thursday 27 March 2008, Michael Schmarck wrote:
> > > The question now is why were the alsa, oss and other drivers
> > > removed from the -base ebuild?
> >
> > Because they belong to the meta package, I suppose. The real
> > question rather is, why was rb not updated to depend on -meta.
> > I filed https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=214852 for that.
>
> Good luck with getting a dev to agree to that. I wouldn't, and don't
> know a single case in portage where an ebuild DEPENDS on a -meta ebuild
> (possible -metas DEPENDING on subordinate -metas excepted)

In that case, rb should depend on gst-plugins-base, but that's
also not what them devs want. It rather seems, that they prefer
that users have a non-functional system - which I find a quite
strange attitude. But that's just me, I guess.

> -meta packages are designed to be manually added to world by users who
> wish an easy way to emerge everything.

Fine, but did you actually have a look at the gst-plugins-meta
package? It does *NOT* add everything. It is *NOT* at all like
the kde-meta package. The gst-plugins-meta package only adds
everything, if all the USE flags are set. Again, that's very
much different from the kde-meta package - for it to be the
same, the kde-meta would need to have, let's say, a "ppp"
flag with which a user could control if ppp stuff (kppp for
example) get's installed. But there's no such flag.

> It's not described in policy
> anywhere I have ever seen, the actual usage in practise tells you the
> intended usage.

The actual usage of other meta packages (again, I'm thinking
abut kde-meta and also gnome-base/gnome here) differs *completely*
from the usage of the gst-plugins-meta package. So I don't
see, how you can compare different things here.

> Go back and read bug 159470 again, especially comments 3 and 4.

I don't quite understand that. Nobody is proposing, that rb should
now grow an "alsa" USE flag. I'm also not saying that gst-plugins-base
should re-grow the alsa USE flag.

> The
> dependencies you propose cause circular dependency loops

Why's that?

rb should depend on gst-plugins-meta which should depend on
gst-plugins-alsa (if the USE flag is set so).

> and
> recompilation of packages that depend on the USE flags when they
> change, even when the resulting files installed are EXACTLY the same as
> the ones replaced.

Care to expand on that?

> This is the reason why the USE flags were removed
> from the ebuild,

That's fine.

> to save you from the horror that is circular deps.

Could you cook up a testcase to show that?

> > > I recall something similar with another sound
> > > app a while ago, the reason is that it could be used as a networked
> > > sound delivery server and there's no good reason to require the
> > > user to have sound driver support on the local machine. I suspect
> > > your bug will be closed WONTFIX, with luck the dev will justify
> > > their reasoning.
> >
> > If not, I'll reopen it.
>
> And Jakob will probably just close it.

Then I'll reopen it.

> He's brutal about that, and it's
> his job.

Dunno. But let's not discuss Jakub.

> The problem you are trying to solve would be much better
> served with a request for an ELOG to be emitted by rhythmbox alerting
> to user to the need to install gst-plugins-whatever.

I don't think so.

> There's a damn good reason why rhythmbox does does depend on -meta.

I suppose you mean "does not depend on -meta", right?

> That
> will never happen, so you should get over it. Bug 159470 explains why
> it's not a good idea to depend on -base either, so now you get to issue
> one more emerge by yourself.

Actually, it doesn't. Comment #3 from Jakub doesn't apply. I totally
agree with Jakub, that it might have been a bad idea to have something
like

mad? ( =media-plugins/gst-plugins-mad-0.10* )

in the totem ebuild. That sucks. Nobody wants that back.

I seem to be missing something - what happens, if rb would
depend on gst-plugins-meta? Suppose USE=alsa is set. Then if
"emerge rhythmbox" would be done, gst-plugins-meta and
gst-plugins-alsa would be emerged. Then the user thinks that
dvb is a good idea and adds "dvb" to his make.conf file.
If he'd recompile gst-plugins-meta, he'd also get gst-plugins-dvb
installed. Would rb then need to be recompiled, in the point
of view of emerge?

Michael

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