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Old 09-29-2011, 04:30 PM
Michael Mol
 
Default Slightly OT but interesting nonetheless...

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
<volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Am Mittwoch 28 September 2011, 17:15:34 schrieb Grant Edwards:
>
>>
>> Regardless, my point was that Linus's statement that it's unacceptable
>> to break things seemed rather disingenuous given the API churn that
>> Linux has compared with the BSD kernels.
>
> Linux has zero userland visible API 'churn'.
>
> You can't have less than zero.

Uh, that can't be right. Largely, libc masks things.

Several kernel options explicitly state in their description that they
require new-enough versions of this or that userland tool to function
properly. Randomizing module base addresses is one of those, IIRC.
Some things related to sysfs. sysfs itself. I think some network
filesystems. modutils.

If there's no API churn, it should be pretty trivial to run a current
userland on top of, e.g. 2.6.0-pre1, or even 2.6.0. I also STR 2.6.9
being a common pin point where a bunch of userland tools required
that-or-newer.

And that's ignoring dropping things like A.OUT support.

I'm not arguing whether or not it's reasonable (it almost certainly
is), but there certainly is churn.

--
:wq
 
Old 09-29-2011, 04:55 PM
Grant Edwards
 
Default Slightly OT but interesting nonetheless...

On 2011-09-29, Volker Armin Hemmann <volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Am Mittwoch 28 September 2011, 17:15:34 schrieb Grant Edwards:
>
>>
>> Regardless, my point was that Linus's statement that it's unacceptable
>> to break things seemed rather disingenuous given the API churn that
>> Linux has compared with the BSD kernels.
>
> Linux has zero userland visible API 'churn'.

I wasn't talking about the userland visible API. I was talking
about the driver API. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear about that.

--
Grant
 
Old 09-29-2011, 04:56 PM
Grant Edwards
 
Default Slightly OT but interesting nonetheless...

On 2011-09-29, Volker Armin Hemmann <volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Am Mittwoch 28 September 2011, 17:15:34 schrieb Grant Edwards:
>
>>
>> Regardless, my point was that Linus's statement that it's unacceptable
>> to break things seemed rather disingenuous given the API churn that
>> Linux has compared with the BSD kernels.
>
> Linux has zero userland visible API 'churn'.

Bullshit. Just a few weeks ago I tried to run a program on an older
machine (with an old kernel version) and it wouldn't work because of
kernel API changes.

--
Grant
 
Old 09-30-2011, 12:45 AM
Adam Carter
 
Default Slightly OT but interesting nonetheless...

>> > which is your own fucking fault.
>> >
>> > Get your drivers into the kernel. Problem solved.
>>
>> Does gratuitous obscenity come naturally to you, or do you have to work at
>> it?
>
> I am naturally grumpy.

Yeah we've noticed I like reading your posts because you know
stuff, and I like the fireworks.

You probably have a serotonin deficiency. Be careful though, being
grumpy is dangerously seductive.
 
Old 09-30-2011, 01:04 AM
Peter Humphrey
 
Default Slightly OT but interesting nonetheless...

On Friday 30 September 2011 01:45:39 Adam Carter wrote:




> Be careful though, being grumpy is dangerously seductive.




It is? You could have fooled me




--

Rgds

Peter Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23
 
Old 09-30-2011, 01:34 AM
Adam Carter
 
Default Slightly OT but interesting nonetheless...

>> Be careful though, being grumpy is dangerously seductive.
>
> It is? You could have fooled me

Sorry - I meant being grumpy is seductive for the grumpy person. Its
pretty much the opposite for the people they interact with, as you
imply.
 
Old 09-30-2011, 02:29 AM
Dale
 
Default Slightly OT but interesting nonetheless...

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:

Am Donnerstag 29 September 2011, 01:27:27 schrieb Peter Humphrey:

On Tuesday 27 September 2011 17:52:24 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:

which is your own fucking fault.

Get your drivers into the kernel. Problem solved.

Does gratuitous obscenity come naturally to you, or do you have to work at
it?

I am naturally grumpy.



Wonder what I am? Then again, does it matter? Then again, do I want to
know? :/


Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 09-30-2011, 02:47 AM
Michael Mol
 
Default Slightly OT but interesting nonetheless...

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>> Am Donnerstag 29 September 2011, 01:27:27 schrieb Peter Humphrey:
>>> On Tuesday 27 September 2011 17:52:24 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>> I am naturally grumpy.
>>
>
> Wonder what I am? *Then again, does it matter? *Then again, do I want to
> know? *:/

You're naturally curious, and unafraid to push technical boundaries.

Me, I'm just easily trolled.

--
:wq
 
Old 09-30-2011, 04:10 AM
Dale
 
Default Slightly OT but interesting nonetheless...

Michael Mol wrote:

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 10:29 PM, Dale<rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:

Am Donnerstag 29 September 2011, 01:27:27 schrieb Peter Humphrey:

On Tuesday 27 September 2011 17:52:24 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:

I am naturally grumpy.


Wonder what I am? Then again, does it matter? Then again, do I want to
know? :/

You're naturally curious, and unafraid to push technical boundaries.

Me, I'm just easily trolled.



I am the curious type except for one thing. SNAKES. Seeing one on TV
is fine but in real life, lead poisoning. O_O I have killed three this
year in my yard or garden. My cat isn't dead a year and they are moving
in on me.


Technical boundaries, I'd like to push the Fedora dev doing the /usr and
/var on / thing off my roof, holding a snake. lol


My Dad used to always tell me that a snake is more scared of us than we
are of it. I came back with this, does the snake wear Depends? I know
I was close to needing mine. If the snake is more scared, then he lost
his. o_O


I need to take my meds.

Dale

:-) :-)
 

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