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Michael Mol 09-11-2011 11:48 PM

- can /var be placed in a separate partition?
 
Yes. Man fstab.

On Sep 11, 2011 7:19 PM, "Francisco Ares" <frares@gmail.com> wrote:> Hi, All
>
> Is it possible to have /var in a separate partition, mounted during boot?

>
> Or do the boot process need it to read/write to it?
>
> I have found that mounting local file systems is one of the very first tasks
> on "rc boot".
>
> Thanks
> Francisco

Francisco Ares 09-11-2011 11:52 PM

- can /var be placed in a separate partition?
 
On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 11:48 PM, Michael Mol <mikemol@gmail.com> wrote:


Yes. Man fstab.

On Sep 11, 2011 7:19 PM, "Francisco Ares" <frares@gmail.com> wrote:> Hi, All
>
> Is it possible to have /var in a separate partition, mounted during boot?


>
> Or do the boot process need it to read/write to it?
>
> I have found that mounting local file systems is one of the very first tasks
> on "rc boot".
>
> Thanks
> Francisco





Thank you!

Alex Schuster 09-11-2011 11:53 PM

- can /var be placed in a separate partition?
 
Francisco Ares writes:

> Is it possible to have /var in a separate partition, mounted during
> boot?

This is very common. The advantage is that a process filling up the /var
directory (which is bad) will not fill the root partition (which would be
worse).

But this might change - the upcoming change in udev might require either
an initramfs, or /usr being on the root partition. And I read that the
same might be true for /var.

Wonko

Dale 09-11-2011 11:54 PM

- can /var be placed in a separate partition?
 
Francisco Ares wrote:

Hi, All

Is it possible to have /var in a separate partition, mounted during boot?

Or do the boot process need it to read/write to it?

I have found that mounting local file systems is one of the very first
tasks on "rc boot".


Thanks
Francisco


I think I saw it mentioned on -dev that some time shortly /usr and /var
will be needed on / or you will need the init* thingy to boot. That's
was my understanding of this mess. So, if you are about to do a install
that needs /var on its own partition, I would ask a dev to see how you
should plan. I could have misunderstood but I'm pretty sure it's
coming. It may also depend on what you are going to be running too. I
mention because no need doing it one way now and having to fix it
later. That sucks!


That said, I have /var on its own partition and mine boots fine,
although I haven't rebooted in a week or so. I don't think the change
has happened yet but is coming. I may have a different answer in a
month or so. ;-)


Dale

:-) :-)

Francisco Ares 09-12-2011 12:03 AM

- can /var be placed in a separate partition?
 
Thank you!

And I have found it as a partitioning example on the docs, with "/var" on its own partition (http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-amd64.xml?full=1#book_part1_chap4)

Francisco

On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

Francisco Ares wrote:


Hi, All



Is it possible to have /var in a separate partition, mounted during boot?



Or do the boot process need it to read/write to it?



I have found that mounting local file systems is one of the very first tasks on "rc boot".



Thanks

Francisco




I think I saw it mentioned on -dev that some time shortly /usr and /var will be needed on / or you will need the init* thingy to boot. *That's was my understanding of this mess. *So, if you are about to do a install that needs /var on its own partition, I would ask a dev to see how you should plan. *I could have misunderstood but I'm pretty sure it's coming. *It may also depend on what you are going to be running too. *I mention because no need doing it one way now and having to fix it later. *That sucks!




That said, I have /var on its own partition and mine boots fine, although I haven't rebooted in a week or so. *I don't think the change has happened yet but is coming. *I may have a different answer in a month or so. *;-)




Dale



:-) *:-)





--
"If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have one idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas." - George Bernard Shaw

Dale 09-12-2011 12:16 AM

- can /var be placed in a separate partition?
 
Francisco Ares wrote:

Thank you!

And I have found it as a partitioning example on the docs, with "/var"
on its own partition
(http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-amd64.xml?full=1#book_part1_chap4)


Francisco




That could be changing tho. It is documented that way now but the
change is coming. Whether it will affect your setup or not is not known
at the moment.


Basically, the changes that are coming are not in the docs yet. That is
a work in progress.


Dale

:-) :-)

"Albert W. Hopkins" 09-12-2011 12:28 AM

- can /var be placed in a separate partition?
 
On Sunday, September 11 at 18:54 (-0500), Dale said:

> I think I saw it mentioned on -dev that some time shortly /usr
> and /var
> will be needed on / or you will need the init* thingy to boot.
> That's
> was my understanding of this mess. So, if you are about to do a
> install
> that needs /var on its own partition, I would ask a dev to see how
> you
> should plan. I could have misunderstood but I'm pretty sure it's
> coming. It may also depend on what you are going to be running too.
> I
> mention because no need doing it one way now and having to fix it
> later. That sucks!
>
> That said, I have /var on its own partition and mine boots fine,
> although I haven't rebooted in a week or so. I don't think the
> change
> has happened yet but is coming. I may have a different answer in a
> month or so. ;-)
>
> Dale
>

Hmm, that doesn't smell right to me. What I think you may have heard is
about /run. systemd and some other things are preferring to
move /var/run to /run. The reason being is that /var does not have to
be on the root fs. sysdemd needs /run early (before mounting
filesystems) so the idea was to put /var/run on the rootfs, thus /run.

I don't think /usr should or ever will be required to be on the rootfs.
That's just dumb. The reason we have /bin /sbin, etc. is so that /usr
need not be on the rootfs. It doesn't make sense to change that well
known/established notion.

See also the FHS.

Dale 09-12-2011 01:07 AM

- can /var be placed in a separate partition?
 
Albert W. Hopkins wrote:


On Sunday, September 11 at 18:54 (-0500), Dale said:


I think I saw it mentioned on -dev that some time shortly /usr
and /var
will be needed on / or you will need the init* thingy to boot.
That's
was my understanding of this mess. So, if you are about to do a
install
that needs /var on its own partition, I would ask a dev to see how
you
should plan. I could have misunderstood but I'm pretty sure it's
coming. It may also depend on what you are going to be running too.
I
mention because no need doing it one way now and having to fix it
later. That sucks!

That said, I have /var on its own partition and mine boots fine,
although I haven't rebooted in a week or so. I don't think the
change
has happened yet but is coming. I may have a different answer in a
month or so. ;-)

Dale


Hmm, that doesn't smell right to me. What I think you may have heard is
about /run. systemd and some other things are preferring to
move /var/run to /run. The reason being is that /var does not have to
be on the root fs. sysdemd needs /run early (before mounting
filesystems) so the idea was to put /var/run on the rootfs, thus /run.

I don't think /usr should or ever will be required to be on the rootfs.
That's just dumb. The reason we have /bin /sbin, etc. is so that /usr
need not be on the rootfs. It doesn't make sense to change that well
known/established notion.

See also the FHS.



Have you been here the last week or so? We have been discussing this
change for that long. I got the info from -dev. Alex posted the same
so I guess I was reading it right. I agree it is dumb but that doesn't
appear to sway the devs a bit.


Dale

:-) :-)

Mike Edenfield 09-12-2011 12:11 PM

- can /var be placed in a separate partition?
 
On 9/11/2011 8:28 PM, Albert W. Hopkins wrote:



On Sunday, September 11 at 18:54 (-0500), Dale said:


I think I saw it mentioned on -dev that some time shortly /usr
and /var
will be needed on / or you will need the init* thingy to boot.



Hmm, that doesn't smell right to me. What I think you may have heard is
about /run. systemd and some other things are preferring to
move /var/run to /run. The reason being is that /var does not have to
be on the root fs. sysdemd needs /run early (before mounting
filesystems) so the idea was to put /var/run on the rootfs, thus /run.

I don't think /usr should or ever will be required to be on the rootfs.
That's just dumb. The reason we have /bin /sbin, etc. is so that /usr
need not be on the rootfs. It doesn't make sense to change that well
known/established notion.


Nope, Dale is exactly correct. If the upcoming changes to
udev make it into Gentoo unaltered and unscathed, it will
become necessary to have essentially your full system
available very early in the boot process -- at least as
early as when udev runs. This includes /usr, where I believe
the udev scripts and libraries are being moved, and anything
that any program in those scripts might access, which almost
definitely includes /var.


Any setup where only / is mounted when udev's device
population happens will become "unsupported" (if not
"impossible").


The proposed alternative to a single huge partition is to
use an initramfs that mounts your separate /usr (and /var)
very early in the boot process.


--Mike

Mick 09-13-2011 05:52 AM

- can /var be placed in a separate partition?
 
On Monday 12 Sep 2011 13:11:51 Mike Edenfield wrote:
> On 9/11/2011 8:28 PM, Albert W. Hopkins wrote:
> > On Sunday, September 11 at 18:54 (-0500), Dale said:
> >> I think I saw it mentioned on -dev that some time shortly /usr
> >> and /var
> >> will be needed on / or you will need the init* thingy to boot.
> >
> > Hmm, that doesn't smell right to me. What I think you may have heard is
> > about /run. systemd and some other things are preferring to
> > move /var/run to /run. The reason being is that /var does not have to
> > be on the root fs. sysdemd needs /run early (before mounting
> > filesystems) so the idea was to put /var/run on the rootfs, thus /run.
> >
> > I don't think /usr should or ever will be required to be on the rootfs.
> > That's just dumb. The reason we have /bin /sbin, etc. is so that /usr
> > need not be on the rootfs. It doesn't make sense to change that well
> > known/established notion.
>
> Nope, Dale is exactly correct. If the upcoming changes to
> udev make it into Gentoo unaltered and unscathed, it will
> become necessary to have essentially your full system
> available very early in the boot process -- at least as
> early as when udev runs. This includes /usr, where I believe
> the udev scripts and libraries are being moved, and anything
> that any program in those scripts might access, which almost
> definitely includes /var.
>
> Any setup where only / is mounted when udev's device
> population happens will become "unsupported" (if not
> "impossible").
>
> The proposed alternative to a single huge partition is to
> use an initramfs that mounts your separate /usr (and /var)
> very early in the boot process.

No! This is throwing a major spanner on all my boxen! Arrrrgh! :@

There's a lot of Gentoo users and I would imagine other Linux users who do not
use initr* and still have a separate /var (because of logs, or mail, or news,
or PORTAGE_TMPDIR, etc.).

I seriously hope that a Gentoo specific fix comes out soon and Fedora and
their devs can carry on this way. This M$Windows 'solution' looks more and
more like major bad programming and is getting really really stupid!

</rant>
--
Regards,
Mick


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