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Old 08-23-2011, 07:50 PM
Canek Peláez Valdés
 
Default systemd

On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue 23 August 2011 15:06:25 Canek Peláez Valdés did opine thusly:
>> > Now if it had similarities to say hal, I would instantly
>> > understand. But dbus is good and useful in all the ways that
>> > hal isn't.
>> Wasn't. HAL is dead. From
>> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/hal
>
> Sadly, HAL is not yet dead. It lives still.
>
> It lives on the production database server I just happen to be
> rebooting as I type this (another story for another time) and will
> continue to live here for a very very long time indeed.
>
> Dale can confirm this. Dale will swear in a court of law with hand on
> bible than hal lives on in zombie form, infesting all the matter of
> his house and computers, infecting them with their undead zombieness.
>
> Ye gods, it's been a long hard day....

I remember getting rid of HAL in one weekend, from all my computers.
It was a long weekend, but it was not as bad as getting rid of Qt from
all the computers in my office some years ago.

Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
 
Old 08-23-2011, 08:16 PM
Sebastian Beßler
 
Default systemd

Am 23.08.2011 21:43, schrieb Alan McKinnon:

> Sadly, HAL is not yet dead. It lives still.
>
> It lives on the production database server I just happen to be
> rebooting as I type this (another story for another time) and will
> continue to live here for a very very long time indeed.

WHY is HAL installed on a database server?
I still see desktop systems with HAL, last on an newish kubuntu of a
friend, but on a server? For what is HAL needed there?

Greetings

Sebastian Beßler
 
Old 08-23-2011, 08:19 PM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default systemd

On Tue 23 August 2011 15:50:24 Canek Peláez Valdés did opine thusly:
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Alan McKinnon
<alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tue 23 August 2011 15:06:25 Canek Peláez Valdés did opine
thusly:
> >> > Now if it had similarities to say hal, I would instantly
> >> > understand. But dbus is good and useful in all the ways
> >> > that
> >> > hal isn't.
> >>
> >> Wasn't. HAL is dead. From
> >> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/hal
> >
> > Sadly, HAL is not yet dead. It lives still.
> >
> > It lives on the production database server I just happen to be
> > rebooting as I type this (another story for another time) and
> > will continue to live here for a very very long time indeed.
> >
> > Dale can confirm this. Dale will swear in a court of law with
> > hand on bible than hal lives on in zombie form, infesting all
> > the matter of his house and computers, infecting them with
> > their undead zombieness.
> >
> > Ye gods, it's been a long hard day....
>
> I remember getting rid of HAL in one weekend, from all my computers.
> It was a long weekend, but it was not as bad as getting rid of Qt
> from all the computers in my office some years ago.

Come to my work place, I have the perfect task for you:

to excise perl-5.8.0 from all the many machines it's on, plus the
atrocious in-house coding using it that no-one left understands, and
all running on hardware that no-one can replace.


--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
 
Old 08-23-2011, 08:32 PM
Canek Peláez Valdés
 
Default systemd

On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 4:19 PM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue 23 August 2011 15:50:24 Canek Peláez Valdés did opine thusly:
>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Alan McKinnon
> <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Tue 23 August 2011 15:06:25 Canek Peláez Valdés did opine
> thusly:
>> >> > Now if it had similarities to say hal, I would instantly
>> >> > understand. But dbus is good and useful in all the ways
>> >> > that
>> >> > hal isn't.
>> >>
>> >> Wasn't. HAL is dead. From
>> >> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/hal
>> >
>> > Sadly, HAL is not yet dead. It lives still.
>> >
>> > It lives on the production database server I just happen to be
>> > rebooting as I type this (another story for another time) and
>> > will continue to live here for a very very long time indeed.
>> >
>> > Dale can confirm this. Dale will swear in a court of law with
>> > hand on bible than hal lives on in zombie form, infesting all
>> > the matter of his house and computers, infecting them with
>> > their undead zombieness.
>> >
>> > Ye gods, it's been a long hard day....
>>
>> I remember getting rid of HAL in one weekend, from all my computers.
>> It was a long weekend, but it was not as bad as getting rid of Qt
>> from all the computers in my office some years ago.
>
> Come to my work place, I have the perfect task for you:
>
> to excise perl-5.8.0 from all the many machines it's on, plus the
> atrocious in-house coding using it that no-one left understands, and
> all running on hardware that no-one can replace.

Been there, done that. One of the reasons I got back to school to get
my Computer Science PhD.

Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México
 
Old 08-23-2011, 08:43 PM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default systemd

On Tue 23 August 2011 22:16:30 Sebastian Beßler did opine thusly:
> Am 23.08.2011 21:43, schrieb Alan McKinnon:
> > Sadly, HAL is not yet dead. It lives still.
> >
> > It lives on the production database server I just happen to be
> > rebooting as I type this (another story for another time) and
> > will continue to live here for a very very long time indeed.
>
> WHY is HAL installed on a database server?
> I still see desktop systems with HAL, last on an newish kubuntu of a
> friend, but on a server? For what is HAL needed there?

I wish I knew why. The fellow that did the install might know. I'm
betting it's because he clicked yes, yes, yes, yes, ok on the RHEL
install CD dialogs.

I can't fix it without running afoul of the Change Management process,
and today's emergency reboot didn't leave me any time to poke around
and determine the effect of removing hal.

This is how life in corporate IT works....

--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
 
Old 08-23-2011, 09:10 PM
kashani
 
Default systemd

On 8/23/2011 1:43 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote:


I can't fix it without running afoul of the Change Management process,
and today's emergency reboot didn't leave me any time to poke around
and determine the effect of removing hal.

This is how life in corporate IT works....



I hate Corp CM and it's one of the reasons I stay in startups. It's job
is to slow normal change down so much so that every change becomes an
emergency.


However next time I have to deal with one I am shoving mathematical
proof of "there is no rollback in systems" down there throats.
http://www.iu.hio.no/~mark/papers/totalfield.pdf


For those that aren't ginormous systems nerds this bit sums it up nicely.

"There is a deeper issue with roll-back in partial systems. If a system
is in contact with another system, e.g. receiving data, or if we have
partitioned a system into loosely coupled pieces only one of which is
being changed, then the other system becomes a part of the total system
and we must write a hypothetical journal for the entire system in order
to achieve a consistent rollback."


kashani
 
Old 08-23-2011, 09:22 PM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default systemd

On Tue 23 August 2011 14:10:57 kashani did opine thusly:
> On 8/23/2011 1:43 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > I can't fix it without running afoul of the Change Management
> > process, and today's emergency reboot didn't leave me any time
> > to poke around and determine the effect of removing hal.
> >
> > This is how life in corporate IT works....
>
> I hate Corp CM and it's one of the reasons I stay in startups.
It's
> job is to slow normal change down so much so that every change
> becomes an emergency.
>
> However next time I have to deal with one I am shoving
mathematical
> proof of "there is no rollback in systems" down there throats.
> http://www.iu.hio.no/~mark/papers/totalfield.pdf

Haven't read the pdf yet, but I just have to share this joke.

Tonight's CM was an unscheduled emergency reboot. This gave me
opportunity to do something I've been dying to do for ages, enter
this:

Install plan: reboot server
Test plan: ping server
Backout plan: unreboot server <====== :-)

On the whole our CM process is sane. The manager knows how
infrastructure works:

If that undersea optical link goes down, I'm fixing it right now and
to hell with the paperwork and process.

Contrast with my gf's job at the bank. That one truly is a case where
to change anything, she has to invent imaginary catastrophic
emergencies. More often than not, she causes them in undetectable ways
just to get her job done.


>
> For those that aren't ginormous systems nerds this bit sums it up
> nicely.
>
> "There is a deeper issue with roll-back in partial systems. If a
> system is in contact with another system, e.g. receiving data, or
> if we have partitioned a system into loosely coupled pieces only
> one of which is being changed, then the other system becomes a part
> of the total system and we must write a hypothetical journal for
> the entire system in order to achieve a consistent rollback."
>
> kashani
--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
 
Old 08-23-2011, 10:00 PM
"Stefan G. Weichinger"
 
Default systemd

Am 23.08.2011 11:22, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:

> http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Improve_responsiveness_with_cgroups
>
> brings the script /usr/local/sbin/cgroup_start which is started by
> openrc, but not by systemd. In there the perms would be set up for my
> user ...
>
>
> So the solution will be to teach systemd to start that script as well.

That was no big problem ... solved.

Interesting observation right now:

Wanted to extend a LV.

Unmounted it, "lvresize -L+5G ...", then "resize2fs ..."

resize2fs told me that the LV is mounted and that is has to do online
resizing.

whoa. I unmounted it before!

So it seems as if I would have to stop the related mount-service within
systemd first ...

That is an important thing to know IMO.

Stefan
 
Old 08-24-2011, 04:15 AM
Dale
 
Default systemd

Alan McKinnon wrote:

On Tue 23 August 2011 15:06:25 Canek Peláez Valdés did opine thusly:


Now if it had similarities to say hal, I would instantly
understand. But dbus is good and useful in all the ways that
hal isn't.


Wasn't. HAL is dead. From
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/hal


Sadly, HAL is not yet dead. It lives still.

It lives on the production database server I just happen to be
rebooting as I type this (another story for another time) and will
continue to live here for a very very long time indeed.

Dale can confirm this. Dale will swear in a court of law with hand on
bible than hal lives on in zombie form, infesting all the matter of
his house and computers, infecting them with their undead zombieness.

Ye gods, it's been a long hard day....




Not here. I shot hal with a silver bullet and drove a stake into it a
long time ago. If that thing even twitches, I'll go Navy Seals on it.
O_O Man I love the 2nd amendment we have. ;-) Even the NSA wouldn't
be able to bring that back.


Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 08-24-2011, 07:03 AM
Joost Roeleveld
 
Default systemd

On Wednesday, August 24, 2011 12:00:17 AM Stefan G. Weichinger wrote:
> Am 23.08.2011 11:22, schrieb Stefan G. Weichinger:
> > http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Improve_responsiveness_with_cgroups
> >
> > brings the script /usr/local/sbin/cgroup_start which is started by
> > openrc, but not by systemd. In there the perms would be set up for my
> > user ...
> >
> >
> > So the solution will be to teach systemd to start that script as well.
>
> That was no big problem ... solved.
>
> Interesting observation right now:
>
> Wanted to extend a LV.
>
> Unmounted it, "lvresize -L+5G ...", then "resize2fs ..."
>
> resize2fs told me that the LV is mounted and that is has to do online
> resizing.
>
> whoa. I unmounted it before!
>
> So it seems as if I would have to stop the related mount-service within
> systemd first ...
>
> That is an important thing to know IMO.

You can resize a partition without having to umount it first.

That's been possible for a couple of years now.

--
Joost
 

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