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Old 02-14-2008, 05:51 PM
Dale
 
Default Linux, reiserfs and file fragmentation

Alan McKinnon wrote:

On Thursday 14 February 2008, Uwe Thiem wrote:


Yes, everything will be defragmented. In addition, it will leave gaps
between files. So if a file lateron grows it will not immediately
fragment.



Which will cause a stupid script to report fragmentation if the author
does not understand file system structure...





Yea, I have always read that Linux file systems are a lot better at
taking care of fragmentation. Considering how old this install is and
how much has been installed/removed/upgraded over the past several
years, I think it is not to bad really. Even 10% with the number of
files I have is better than fat or NTFS. My bro has XP with NTFS and it
gets downright awful.

For the record, I have over 502,000 files and over 49,000 directories on
this system. That's less than 20,000 files that are fragmented. It's
not just the OS but documents, little movies and a LOT of pictures.


Maybe I just need a bigger hard drive. O_O I have two 80GB drives and
a single 40GB drive. Waiting on DSL. he he he he he


I also attached a copy of the program I used. I think I got it off the
forums. Maybe some guru can improve it a little. ;-)


Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 02-14-2008, 07:25 PM
Uwe Thiem
 
Default Linux, reiserfs and file fragmentation

On Thursday 14 February 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Thursday 14 February 2008, Uwe Thiem wrote:
> > Yes, everything will be defragmented. In addition, it will leave
> > gaps between files. So if a file lateron grows it will not
> > immediately fragment.
>
> Which will cause a stupid script to report fragmentation if the
> author does not understand file system structure...

One can assume any level stupidness of writer of little perl
scripts. ;-)

That aside, how would gaps *between* files ever translate into
fragmentation unless the author of that particular piece of software
managed to kill his very last brain cell?

Uwe

--
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http://www.linux.org.na/
SysEx (Pty) Ltd.:
http://www.SysEx.com.na/
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Old 02-14-2008, 07:33 PM
Uwe Thiem
 
Default Linux, reiserfs and file fragmentation

On Thursday 14 February 2008, Dale wrote:

> I also attached a copy of the program I used. I think I got it off
> the forums. Maybe some guru can improve it a little. ;-)

Not me. Perl has been invented to generate reports from log files or
such. It is not a general purpose language, though many sysadmins
abuse it for such.

I can't read my own perl scripts I have written three weeks ago. It
all looks like spider legs or chicken cratches to me.

Uwe

--
Informal Linux Group Namibia:
http://www.linux.org.na/
SysEx (Pty) Ltd.:
http://www.SysEx.com.na/
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Old 02-14-2008, 07:48 PM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default Linux, reiserfs and file fragmentation

On Thursday 14 February 2008, Uwe Thiem wrote:
> That aside, how would gaps *between* files ever translate into
> fragmentation unless the author of that particular piece of software
> managed to kill his very last brain cell?

Oops. I had a brain fart there.

--
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 02-14-2008, 07:49 PM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default Linux, reiserfs and file fragmentation

On Thursday 14 February 2008, Uwe Thiem wrote:
> On Thursday 14 February 2008, Dale wrote:
> > I also attached a copy of the program I used. I think I got it off
> > the forums. Maybe some guru can improve it a little. ;-)
>
> Not me. Perl has been invented to generate reports from log files or
> such. It is not a general purpose language, though many sysadmins
> abuse it for such.
>
> I can't read my own perl scripts I have written three weeks ago. It
> all looks like spider legs or chicken cratches to me.

Three weeks! You remember what you coded for up to three weeks but not
usually longer????

Wow. You are one lucky SOB. I barely manage three DAYS lately <grin>


--
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

--
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Old 02-15-2008, 04:06 AM
Dale
 
Default Linux, reiserfs and file fragmentation

Alan McKinnon wrote:

On Thursday 14 February 2008, Uwe Thiem wrote:


That aside, how would gaps *between* files ever translate into
fragmentation unless the author of that particular piece of software
managed to kill his very last brain cell?



Oops. I had a brain fart there.




You two are so funny. I found this too:
http://www.oo-software.com/home/en/products/oodefrag/ Seems someone is
trying to make money. I have also read that most Linux file systems do
this automatically somehow. After doing my test, I tend to agree. So
why have a commercial product for this? Is it just money?


Your thoughts, humor is OK too. o_O

Dale

:-) :-)
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Old 02-15-2008, 06:09 AM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default Linux, reiserfs and file fragmentation

On Friday 15 February 2008, Dale wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On Thursday 14 February 2008, Uwe Thiem wrote:
> >> That aside, how would gaps *between* files ever translate into
> >> fragmentation unless the author of that particular piece of
> >> software managed to kill his very last brain cell?
> >
> > Oops. I had a brain fart there.
>
> You two are so funny.

Thank you. We try to please :-)

> I found this too:
> http://www.oo-software.com/home/en/products/oodefrag/ Seems someone
> is trying to make money. I have also read that most Linux file
> systems do this automatically somehow. After doing my test, I tend
> to agree. So why have a commercial product for this? Is it just
> money?

Yeah, pretty much just money. Microsoft's business model is to trap the
market, never perform at any level higher than mediocrity, and create
an ecosystem that needs thousands of support apps just to keep the OS
limping along. Then shaft all of them with vendor-lockin

Coping with file fragmentation has to be one of the easiest algorithms
around, it isn't even hard. Write a file, and look to see how the
blocks are distributed. If it can be improved, then do so. Otherwise
leave it as is

But then again, if you have written a file system so that everything is
just mushed onto the same device, all higeldypigeldy with no sane
structure at all ... then I suppose you would need stuff like defrag to
come along once a week and save your ass :-)



--
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 02-15-2008, 08:42 AM
Uwe Thiem
 
Default Linux, reiserfs and file fragmentation

On Friday 15 February 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Friday 15 February 2008, Dale wrote:
> > Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > > On Thursday 14 February 2008, Uwe Thiem wrote:
> > >> That aside, how would gaps *between* files ever translate into
> > >> fragmentation unless the author of that particular piece of
> > >> software managed to kill his very last brain cell?
> > >
> > > Oops. I had a brain fart there.
> >
> > You two are so funny.
>
> Thank you. We try to please :-)

I second that. Africa makes you so. I mean funny and trying to
please. ;-)

>
> > I found this too:
> > http://www.oo-software.com/home/en/products/oodefrag/ Seems
> > someone is trying to make money. I have also read that most
> > Linux file systems do this automatically somehow. After doing my
> > test, I tend to agree. So why have a commercial product for
> > this? Is it just money?
>
> Yeah, pretty much just money. Microsoft's business model is to trap
> the market, never perform at any level higher than mediocrity, and
> create an ecosystem that needs thousands of support apps just to
> keep the OS limping along. Then shaft all of them with
> vendor-lockin
>
> Coping with file fragmentation has to be one of the easiest
> algorithms around, it isn't even hard. Write a file, and look to
> see how the blocks are distributed. If it can be improved, then do
> so. Otherwise leave it as is
>
> But then again, if you have written a file system so that
> everything is just mushed onto the same device, all higeldypigeldy
> with no sane structure at all ... then I suppose you would need
> stuff like defrag to come along once a week and save your ass :-)

Back in the days when I still used DOS, one certainly wanted to
defragment periodically. The system became significantly more
performant for a while. On Linux/Unix, I never bothered.

Uwe

--
Informal Linux Group Namibia:
http://www.linux.org.na/
SysEx (Pty) Ltd.:
http://www.SysEx.com.na/
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Old 02-15-2008, 08:57 AM
Dale
 
Default Linux, reiserfs and file fragmentation

Uwe Thiem wrote:



Back in the days when I still used DOS, one certainly wanted to
defragment periodically. The system became significantly more
performant for a while. On Linux/Unix, I never bothered.


Uwe




Yea, I remember those days too. Put the disk and get it started then
wait until it finishes the next day. Sometimes it would take more time
than that. I mean, when you got a puter with 64K of ram and maybe 200
or 300MBs of hard drive space, well, it takes a while. Oh, that 4MHz
blazingly fast CPU helped a lot too. ;-)


Dale

:-) :-) :-)
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Old 02-15-2008, 09:09 AM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default Linux, reiserfs and file fragmentation

On Friday 15 February 2008, Dale wrote:
> Uwe Thiem wrote:
> > Back in the days when I still used DOS, one certainly wanted to
> > defragment periodically. The system became significantly more
> > performant for a while. On Linux/Unix, I never bothered.
> >
> > Uwe
>
> Yea, I remember those days too. Put the disk and get it started then
> wait until it finishes the next day. Sometimes it would take more
> time than that. I mean, when you got a puter with 64K of ram and
> maybe 200 or 300MBs of hard drive space, well, it takes a while. Oh,
> that 4MHz blazingly fast CPU helped a lot too. ;-)

I remember using PCTools for defrag then switching to Norton. Took 2
days on a 20M MFM drive - Norton used a different layout scheme to
PCTools and wanted to change *everything* around.

Heck, I remember changing the interleaving on that disk from 1 to 3 and
getting a massive performance increase...



--
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

--
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