Its been fixed;
http://sources.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/gentoo-x86/app-office/libreoffice/ChangeLog?view=markup

On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 19:41 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> Apparently, though unproven, at 16:38 on Sunday 22 May 2011, Indi did opine
> thusly:
>
> > On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 12:10:01AM +0200, walt wrote:
> > > On 05/20/2011 08:24 PM, Indi wrote:
> > > > On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 12:50:01AM +0200, walt wrote:
> > > >> For you users of unstable gentoo: the recent update of 'icu' broke
> > > >> dozens of packages (as it always does) including libreoffice.
> > > >>
> > > >> The problem is that libreoffice fails to build if you have bison-2.5
> > > >
> > > > I have bison-2.5, but am using libreoffice-bin which seems fine.
> > >
> > > Yes, that would be expected because bison is needed only at compile time,
> > > not at run time.
> > >
> > > I would be using libreoffice-bin too, except for a ridiculous change made
> > > about a year ago in the way openoffice charts are scaled on the y-axis.
> > >
> > > I complained bitterly on the openoffice 'chart' mail list, only to
> > > discover that openoffice changed its perfectly good scaling algorithm to
> > > ape a change made in M$ Office!
> > >
> > > Nobody at openoffice.org would consider reverting that ridiculous mee-too
> > > change, so I've been editing the open(libre)office source code to remove
> > > it myself before compiling it. I was very disappointed to find a major
> > > open- source project following M$ around like a hungry puppy
> >
> > It's unfortunate that we don't have small, fast, light, standalone
> > programs to deal with the formats of word, excel, powerpoint, etc but
> > if we did odds are most people would shun them for a big, bloaty
> > office suite anyway. Personally, I'd love it if I could open and edit
> > those office formats in vim...
>
>
> What makes you think they don't *already* exist?
>
> * app-office/libreoffice-bin-3.3.2
> Total files : 8138
> Total size : 498.24 MiB
>
> * app-office/koffice-libs-2.3.3
> Total files : 697
> Total size : 19.45 MiB
> * app-office/koffice-data-2.3.3
> Total files : 214
> Total size : 608.63 KiB
> * app-office/karbon-2.3.3
> Total files : 160
> Total size : 3 MiB
> * app-office/kexi-2.3.3
> Total files : 337
> Total size : 8.17 MiB
> * app-office/kpresenter-2.3.3
> Total files : 188
> Total size : 9.28 MiB
> * app-office/krita-2.3.3
> Total files : 783
> Total size : 26.10 MiB
> * app-office/kspread-2.3.3
> Total files : 337
> Total size : 11.62 MiB
> * app-office/kword-2.3.3-r1
> Total files : 215
> Total size : 7.82 MiB
>
> Small, fast, light, standalone: yeah, they are all there.
>
> Editing them in something vim-alike is highly unlikely to be useful - compare
> antiword. Office suites are gui programs and the gui layout is as important
> (if not more so) than the content. And I haven't even touched on graphics
> elements yet.
>
> So you may be able to modify the content but probably not the layout. Have a
> look inside OOo source code sometimes for a look at what it takes to calculate
> something as "simple" as where on the page some text goes.
>
>
Do any of them actually work acceptably in terms of compatibility with
MSword though? - having a good, lite suit available for the "quick" jobs
would be nice.

The OO/LibreOffice suits are almost compatible, the others barely if at
all. Even simple documents fox abiword for instance, and anything
complex is hopeless.

And unfortunately, working in an MS centric organisation means close to
100% compatibility is demanded by the other end, especially on documents
being passed back and forward.

BillK

Apparently, though unproven, at 02:17 on Monday 23 May 2011, Bill Kenworthy
did opine thusly:

> Do any of them actually work acceptably in terms of compatibility with
> MSword though? - having a good, lite suit available for the "quick" jobs
> would be nice.

Well, my usual initial retort to MS suers on that is "MS Office isn't even
compatible with itself across versions!" It doesn't help much but makes me
feel better :-)

koffice does a reasonable job overall as long as you restrict it to simple
docs. In general, the more complex the source doc, the greater the chances of
failure. This isn't anything to do with Office vs LibreOffice vs KOffice per
se, it's just that office suites are complex beasts and 100% compatibility
between them is unlikely to happen. It was like that in the days in
WordPerfect and not much has changed.

Some problems are just unsolveable. Consider how MS Word lays out pages and
paragraphs on the page - it is fundamentally incompatible with the model OOo
uses internally. Same with anchored images.

> The OO/LibreOffice suits are almost compatible, the others barely if at
> all. Even simple documents fox abiword for instance, and anything
> complex is hopeless.

Your average user creates simple docs (regardless of length) without any style
sheeting. Headings are big text bold, emphasis is bold or italics and by far
the most common font change is to Comic Sans. Most folk avoid bullet/numbered
lists like the plaque (mostly because they can't get it to work and have given
up on having lists randomly re-number themselves).

Spreadsheets for your average user are one big table with columns and rows.

For these documents, KOffice manages fine.

Corporate users are another story. Any corporate has a go-to team of
PowerPoint experts, usually backed up with endless lists of stylesheets and
templates. Good luck with compatibility with those, as you have observed.

> And unfortunately, working in an MS centric organisation means close to
> 100% compatibility is demanded by the other end, especially on documents
> being passed back and forward.

Yup, the only thing that works in an MS shop is Office. It would be the same
in reverse - an Office user would be just as stymied in an OOo/Libre-centric
setting.

Some battles can be fought and won.
Sometimes it's easier to install VirtualBox.


--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 11:31:40PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote

> No, I think you need to get real. It's 2011, what did you expect?

Here's what I don't expect. I run a tight ship on my machine. I
currently have gnumeric and AbiWord and libreoffice-bin running uncer
icewm. In order to get "emerge -p app-office/kword" to actually start,
I had to...

!) remove "sys-apps/dbus" from /etc/portage/package.mask

2) add the following to /etc/portage/package.use

x11-libs/qt-sql qt3support
x11-libs/qt-core qt3support ssl exceptions
x11-libs/qt-gui qt3support accessibility dbus
x11-libs/qt-qt3support accessibility kde
x11-libs/qt-svg accessibility
x11-libs/qt-opengl qt3support
x11-libs/qt-webkit kde
sys-block/parted device-mapper
sys-fs/udev extras
sys-auth/consolekit policykit
x11-libs/qt-declarative qt3support

3) and here is the 390 megabytes of stuff to emerge...
gebuild N ] dev-libs/libgpg-error-1.10 USE="-common-lisp -nls -static-libs"
[ebuild N ] dev-libs/libical-0.43
[ebuild N ] dev-util/boost-build-1.42.0 USE="-examples -python"
[ebuild N ] sys-apps/sdparm-1.03
[ebuild N ] sys-power/pm-quirks-20100619
[ebuild N ] sys-block/eject-2.1.5-r2 USE="-nls"
[ebuild N ] kde-base/oxygen-icons-4.6.2 USE="(-aqua) (-kdeenablefinal) (-kdeprefix)"
[ebuild N ] sys-apps/dbus-1.4.6 USE="X -debug -doc (-selinux) -static-libs -test"
[ebuild N ] dev-cpp/eigen-2.0.13 USE="-debug -doc -examples"
[ebuild N ] dev-libs/libassuan-2.0.1 USE="-static-libs"
[ebuild N ] dev-libs/cyrus-sasl-2.1.23-r1 USE="-authdaemond -berkdb -crypt -gdbm -java -kerberos -ldap -mysql -ntlm_unsupported_patch -pam -postgres -sample -sqlite -srp -ssl -urandom"
[ebuild N ] dev-libs/libksba-1.2.0 USE="-static-libs"
[ebuild N ] dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.4.6 USE="-static-libs"
[ebuild N ] dev-libs/pth-2.0.7-r2 USE="-debug"
[ebuild N ] app-admin/eselect-boost-0.3
[ebuild NS ] app-text/docbook-xml-dtd-4.2-r2 [4.3-r1]
[ebuild N ] dev-libs/libpcre-8.12 USE="bzip2 (unicode) zlib -cxx -recursion-limit -static-libs"
[ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.2.1 USE="-static-libs"
[ebuild N ] kde-base/kde-env-4.6.2 USE="(-aqua) (-kdeenablefinal) (-kdeprefix)"
[ebuild N ] sys-apps/attr-2.4.44 USE="-nls"
[ebuild N ] dev-cpp/clucene-0.9.21b-r1 USE="threads -debug -doc -static-libs"
[ebuild NS ] virtual/libusb-0 [1]
[ebuild N ] virtual/eject-0
[ebuild N ] app-crypt/pinentry-0.8.0 USE="-caps -gtk -ncurses -qt4 -static"
[ebuild N ] dev-libs/dbus-glib-0.92 USE="-bash-completion -debug -doc -static-libs -test"
[ebuild N ] app-crypt/gnupg-2.0.17 USE="bzip2 -adns -caps -doc -ldap -nls -openct -pcsc-lite (-selinux) -smartcard -static"
[ebuild N ] dev-libs/boost-1.42.0-r2 USE="-debug -doc -eselect -icu -mpi -python -static-libs -test -tools"
[ebuild N ] app-misc/strigi-0.7.1 USE="exif -clucene -dbus -debug -fam -hyperestraier -inotify (-log) -qt4 -test"
[ebuild N ] sys-apps/acl-2.2.49 USE="(-nfs) -nls"
[ebuild N ] sys-power/pm-utils-1.4.1 USE="-alsa -debug -networkmanager -ntp" VIDEO_CARDS="intel -radeon"
[ebuild R ] sys-fs/udev-151-r4 USE="extras*"
[ebuild N ] app-crypt/gpgme-1.3.0 USE="-common-lisp -pth"
[ebuild N ] sys-fs/lvm2-2.02.73-r1 USE="(-clvm) (-cman) -lvm1 -readline (-selinux) -static"
[ebuild N ] dev-libs/libatasmart-0.17 USE="-static-libs"
[ebuild N ] sys-block/parted-2.3 USE="device-mapper -debug -nls -readline (-selinux)"
[ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-core-4.7.2-r1 USE="exceptions qt3support ssl (-aqua) -debug -glib -iconv -jit -optimized-qmake -pch -private-headers"
[ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-sql-4.7.2 USE="qt3support (-aqua) -debug -exceptions (-firebird) -freetds -iconv -mysql -odbc -pch -postgres -sqlite"
[ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-script-4.7.2 USE="(-aqua) -debug -exceptions -iconv -jit -pch -private-headers"
[ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-test-4.7.2 USE="(-aqua) -debug -exceptions -iconv -pch"
[ebuild N ] dev-util/automoc-0.9.88
[ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-dbus-4.7.2 USE="(-aqua) -debug -exceptions -pch"
[ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-xmlpatterns-4.7.2 USE="(-aqua) -debug -pch"
[ebuild N ] dev-libs/soprano-2.6.0 USE="-clucene -dbus -debug -doc -raptor -redland -test -virtuoso"
[ebuild N ] app-crypt/qca-2.0.3 USE="(-aqua) -debug -doc -examples"
[ebuild N ] dev-libs/libattica-0.2.0 USE="-debug"
[ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-gui-4.7.2 USE="accessibility dbus mng qt3support tiff (-aqua) -cups -debug -egl -exceptions -glib -gtkstyle -nas -nis -pch -private-headers -raster -trace -xinerama"
[ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-qt3support-4.7.2 USE="accessibility kde (-aqua) -debug -exceptions -pch -phonon"
[ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-svg-4.7.2 USE="accessibility (-aqua) -debug -exceptions -iconv -pch"
[ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-opengl-4.7.2 USE="qt3support (-aqua) -debug -egl -exceptions -pch"
[ebuild N ] media-libs/phonon-4.5.0 USE="(-aqua) -debug -gstreamer -pulseaudio -vlc -xine"
[ebuild N ] dev-libs/libdbusmenu-qt-0.6.2 USE="-debug -test"
[ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-webkit-4.7.2 USE="kde (-aqua) -dbus -debug -exceptions -jit -pch"
[ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-declarative-4.7.2-r1 USE="qt3support (-aqua) -debug -exceptions -pch -private-headers -webkit"
[ebuild N ] sys-auth/polkit-0.101-r1 USE="-debug -doc -examples -gtk (-introspection) -kde -nls -pam"
[ebuild N ] sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.4 USE="policykit -debug -doc -pam -test"
[ebuild N ] sys-power/upower-0.9.8 USE="-debug -doc (-introspection) -ios"
[ebuild N ] sys-apps/sg3_utils-1.29
[ebuild N ] sys-apps/rescan-scsi-bus-1.29
[ebuild N ] sys-fs/udisks-1.0.2-r1 USE="-bash-completion -debug -doc -nls -remote-access"
[ebuild N ] kde-base/kdelibs-4.6.2-r3 USE="bzip2 mmx opengl sse sse2 -3dnow -acl -alsa (-altivec) (-aqua) -bindist -debug -doc -fam -handbook -jpeg2k (-kdeenablefinal) (-kdeprefix) -kerberos -lzma -nls -openexr -policykit -semantic-desktop -spell -ssl -test -udev -zeroconf"
[ebuild N ] app-office/koffice-data-2.3.3 USE="(-aqua) (-kdeenablefinal)"
[ebuild N ] kde-base/kdepimlibs-4.6.2-r1 USE="(-aqua) -debug -handbook (-kdeenablefinal) (-kdeprefix) -ldap -semantic-desktop -test"
[ebuild N ] app-office/koffice-libs-2.3.3 USE="opengl (-aqua) -crypt -debug (-kdeenablefinal) -openexr -reports -test"
[ebuild N ] app-office/kword-2.3.3 USE="(-aqua) -debug (-kdeenablefinal) -wpd"

--
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>

On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 10:00:03AM +0200, Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 11:31:40PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote
>
> > No, I think you need to get real. It's 2011, what did you expect?
>
> Here's what I don't expect. I run a tight ship on my machine. I
> currently have gnumeric and AbiWord and libreoffice-bin running uncer
> icewm. In order to get "emerge -p app-office/kword" to actually start,
> I had to...
>
> !) remove "sys-apps/dbus" from /etc/portage/package.mask
>
> 2) add the following to /etc/portage/package.use
>
> x11-libs/qt-sql qt3support
> x11-libs/qt-core qt3support ssl exceptions
> x11-libs/qt-gui qt3support accessibility dbus
> x11-libs/qt-qt3support accessibility kde
> x11-libs/qt-svg accessibility
> x11-libs/qt-opengl qt3support
> x11-libs/qt-webkit kde
> sys-block/parted device-mapper
> sys-fs/udev extras
> sys-auth/consolekit policykit
> x11-libs/qt-declarative qt3support
>
> 3) and here is the 390 megabytes of stuff to emerge...
> gebuild N ] dev-libs/libgpg-error-1.10 USE="-common-lisp -nls -static-libs"
> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libical-0.43
> [ebuild N ] dev-util/boost-build-1.42.0 USE="-examples -python"
> [ebuild N ] sys-apps/sdparm-1.03
> [ebuild N ] sys-power/pm-quirks-20100619
> [ebuild N ] sys-block/eject-2.1.5-r2 USE="-nls"
> [ebuild N ] kde-base/oxygen-icons-4.6.2 USE="(-aqua) (-kdeenablefinal) (-kdeprefix)"
> [ebuild N ] sys-apps/dbus-1.4.6 USE="X -debug -doc (-selinux) -static-libs -test"
> [ebuild N ] dev-cpp/eigen-2.0.13 USE="-debug -doc -examples"
> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libassuan-2.0.1 USE="-static-libs"
> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/cyrus-sasl-2.1.23-r1 USE="-authdaemond -berkdb -crypt -gdbm -java -kerberos -ldap -mysql -ntlm_unsupported_patch -pam -postgres -sample -sqlite -srp -ssl -urandom"
> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libksba-1.2.0 USE="-static-libs"
> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libgcrypt-1.4.6 USE="-static-libs"
> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/pth-2.0.7-r2 USE="-debug"
> [ebuild N ] app-admin/eselect-boost-0.3
> [ebuild NS ] app-text/docbook-xml-dtd-4.2-r2 [4.3-r1]
> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libpcre-8.12 USE="bzip2 (unicode) zlib -cxx -recursion-limit -static-libs"
> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/libXScrnSaver-1.2.1 USE="-static-libs"
> [ebuild N ] kde-base/kde-env-4.6.2 USE="(-aqua) (-kdeenablefinal) (-kdeprefix)"
> [ebuild N ] sys-apps/attr-2.4.44 USE="-nls"
> [ebuild N ] dev-cpp/clucene-0.9.21b-r1 USE="threads -debug -doc -static-libs"
> [ebuild NS ] virtual/libusb-0 [1]
> [ebuild N ] virtual/eject-0
> [ebuild N ] app-crypt/pinentry-0.8.0 USE="-caps -gtk -ncurses -qt4 -static"
> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/dbus-glib-0.92 USE="-bash-completion -debug -doc -static-libs -test"
> [ebuild N ] app-crypt/gnupg-2.0.17 USE="bzip2 -adns -caps -doc -ldap -nls -openct -pcsc-lite (-selinux) -smartcard -static"
> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/boost-1.42.0-r2 USE="-debug -doc -eselect -icu -mpi -python -static-libs -test -tools"
> [ebuild N ] app-misc/strigi-0.7.1 USE="exif -clucene -dbus -debug -fam -hyperestraier -inotify (-log) -qt4 -test"
> [ebuild N ] sys-apps/acl-2.2.49 USE="(-nfs) -nls"
> [ebuild N ] sys-power/pm-utils-1.4.1 USE="-alsa -debug -networkmanager -ntp" VIDEO_CARDS="intel -radeon"
> [ebuild R ] sys-fs/udev-151-r4 USE="extras*"
> [ebuild N ] app-crypt/gpgme-1.3.0 USE="-common-lisp -pth"
> [ebuild N ] sys-fs/lvm2-2.02.73-r1 USE="(-clvm) (-cman) -lvm1 -readline (-selinux) -static"
> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libatasmart-0.17 USE="-static-libs"
> [ebuild N ] sys-block/parted-2.3 USE="device-mapper -debug -nls -readline (-selinux)"
> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-core-4.7.2-r1 USE="exceptions qt3support ssl (-aqua) -debug -glib -iconv -jit -optimized-qmake -pch -private-headers"
> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-sql-4.7.2 USE="qt3support (-aqua) -debug -exceptions (-firebird) -freetds -iconv -mysql -odbc -pch -postgres -sqlite"
> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-script-4.7.2 USE="(-aqua) -debug -exceptions -iconv -jit -pch -private-headers"
> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-test-4.7.2 USE="(-aqua) -debug -exceptions -iconv -pch"
> [ebuild N ] dev-util/automoc-0.9.88
> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-dbus-4.7.2 USE="(-aqua) -debug -exceptions -pch"
> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-xmlpatterns-4.7.2 USE="(-aqua) -debug -pch"
> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/soprano-2.6.0 USE="-clucene -dbus -debug -doc -raptor -redland -test -virtuoso"
> [ebuild N ] app-crypt/qca-2.0.3 USE="(-aqua) -debug -doc -examples"
> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libattica-0.2.0 USE="-debug"
> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-gui-4.7.2 USE="accessibility dbus mng qt3support tiff (-aqua) -cups -debug -egl -exceptions -glib -gtkstyle -nas -nis -pch -private-headers -raster -trace -xinerama"
> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-qt3support-4.7.2 USE="accessibility kde (-aqua) -debug -exceptions -pch -phonon"
> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-svg-4.7.2 USE="accessibility (-aqua) -debug -exceptions -iconv -pch"
> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-opengl-4.7.2 USE="qt3support (-aqua) -debug -egl -exceptions -pch"
> [ebuild N ] media-libs/phonon-4.5.0 USE="(-aqua) -debug -gstreamer -pulseaudio -vlc -xine"
> [ebuild N ] dev-libs/libdbusmenu-qt-0.6.2 USE="-debug -test"
> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-webkit-4.7.2 USE="kde (-aqua) -dbus -debug -exceptions -jit -pch"
> [ebuild N ] x11-libs/qt-declarative-4.7.2-r1 USE="qt3support (-aqua) -debug -exceptions -pch -private-headers -webkit"
> [ebuild N ] sys-auth/polkit-0.101-r1 USE="-debug -doc -examples -gtk (-introspection) -kde -nls -pam"
> [ebuild N ] sys-auth/consolekit-0.4.4 USE="policykit -debug -doc -pam -test"
> [ebuild N ] sys-power/upower-0.9.8 USE="-debug -doc (-introspection) -ios"
> [ebuild N ] sys-apps/sg3_utils-1.29
> [ebuild N ] sys-apps/rescan-scsi-bus-1.29
> [ebuild N ] sys-fs/udisks-1.0.2-r1 USE="-bash-completion -debug -doc -nls -remote-access"
> [ebuild N ] kde-base/kdelibs-4.6.2-r3 USE="bzip2 mmx opengl sse sse2 -3dnow -acl -alsa (-altivec) (-aqua) -bindist -debug -doc -fam -handbook -jpeg2k (-kdeenablefinal) (-kdeprefix) -kerberos -lzma -nls -openexr -policykit -semantic-desktop -spell -ssl -test -udev -zeroconf"
> [ebuild N ] app-office/koffice-data-2.3.3 USE="(-aqua) (-kdeenablefinal)"
> [ebuild N ] kde-base/kdepimlibs-4.6.2-r1 USE="(-aqua) -debug -handbook (-kdeenablefinal) (-kdeprefix) -ldap -semantic-desktop -test"
> [ebuild N ] app-office/koffice-libs-2.3.3 USE="opengl (-aqua) -crypt -debug (-kdeenablefinal) -openexr -reports -test"
> [ebuild N ] app-office/kword-2.3.3 USE="(-aqua) -debug (-kdeenablefinal) -wpd"
>

For people already running kde it's ok, but for the rest of us
it's a bit ridiculous, isn't it?
I used to use a few "k" apps in the 3 days, they were small and
easily integrated into the system. Now kde is like it's own OS,
so they've basically eliminated their apps from consideration of
non-kde users.

Not that it matters much to me, one of the strengths of gentoo
is how many ways there are to do a given task.
But there are quite a few kde zealots who seem to be completely
unaware of what we mean by "fast, light, standalone".

I guess some people didn't experience the 80s or 90s.


--
caveat utilitor
♫ � ♫ � ♫ � ♫ �

On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 7:46 AM, Indi <thebeelzebubtrigger@gmail.com> wrote:
> For people already running kde it's ok, but for the rest of us
> it's a bit ridiculous, isn't it?

If he was already using Qt4, it might not have seemed so bad. I
think much of that list are from Qt4 and its dependencies. Other than
kdelibs, kde-env, kdepimlibs, oxygen-icons I don't see much generic
KDE stuff (not counting koffice since that's what he was installing).

On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 04:30:02PM +0200, Paul Hartman wrote:
> On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 7:46 AM, Indi <thebeelzebubtrigger@gmail.com> wrote:
> > For people already running kde it's ok, but for the rest of us
> > it's a bit ridiculous, isn't it?
>
> If he was already using Qt4, it might not have seemed so bad. I
> think much of that list are from Qt4 and its dependencies. Other than
> kdelibs, kde-env, kdepimlibs, oxygen-icons I don't see much generic
> KDE stuff (not counting koffice since that's what he was installing).

Last I tried it, you can't run much of that stuff without the
whole "kdeinit" thing, which is a giant resource hog (relatively
speaking, for those of us accustomed to running trim, fast, light
systems). That why I said it's become like an OS unto itself.
I remember when people used to carry on about bloaty GNUstep libs,
and I said "but those *are* small, fast, and light" and people
responded to me in the manner I've responded to kde people who say
that about kde. So it really is all quite relative...


My standard is simple: it has to be able to work without a mouse,
and when I hit the keys, I want to see results *immediately* --
real results, not a "wait" dialog or spinny thing.

--
caveat utilitor
♫ � ♫ � ♫ � ♫ �

Indi:

> Last I tried it, you can't run much of that stuff without the
> whole "kdeinit" thing, which is a giant resource hog (relatively
> speaking, for those of us accustomed to running trim, fast, light
> systems).

If i will try knode, i get this result:

Total: 69 packages (65 new, 2 in new slots, 2 reinstalls), Size of
downloads: 361,274 kB

Hart mut
--
Usenet-ABC-Wiki http://www.usenet-abc.de/wiki/
Von Usern fuer User :-)

Apparently, though unproven, at 14:46 on Wednesday 25 May 2011, Indi did opine
thusly:

> For people already running kde it's ok, but for the rest of us
> it's a bit ridiculous, isn't it?
> I used to use a few "k" apps in the 3 days, they were small and
> easily integrated into the system. Now kde is like it's own OS,
> so they've basically eliminated their apps from consideration of
> non-kde users.
>
> Not that it matters much to me, one of the strengths of gentoo
> is how many ways there are to do a given task.
> But there are quite a few kde zealots who seem to be completely
> unaware of what we mean by "fast, light, standalone".
>
> I guess some people didn't experience the 80s or 90s.
>
>

It doesn't make sense running koffice without also running KDE, it's a hard
requirement.

And not only did I experience the 80s and 90s, but the 70s as well.

So now that you have defined what fast, light, standalone means by your
current needs, it is obvious that no such package exists and hence there is a
gap in the market.

Now we know what your next project will be.


--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 06:40:01PM +0200, Hartmut Figge wrote:
> Indi:
>
> > Last I tried it, you can't run much of that stuff without the
> > whole "kdeinit" thing, which is a giant resource hog (relatively
> > speaking, for those of us accustomed to running trim, fast, light
> > systems).
>
> If i will try knode, i get this result:
>
> Total: 69 packages (65 new, 2 in new slots, 2 reinstalls), Size of
> downloads: 361,274 kB
>

I like mutt with the nntp patch for usenet anyway.
Add rss2email and you have email, rss, and nntp
all in mutt. Really nice. Quick and responsive, too.
Using leafnode you can even have filters for nntp.
Use elinks to open linked web content and feh for
images, and you're all set. Well, until you want to watch
something on hulu. But conkeror works well for that...


--
caveat utilitor
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