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-   -   mirrorselect on new install (http://www.linux-archive.org/gentoo-user/525599-mirrorselect-new-install.html)

Todd Goodman 05-12-2011 08:24 PM

mirrorselect on new install
 
* Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> [110512 16:15]:
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6 seems to
> have a circular reference, that is, suggesting the use of the subject utility
> prior to chrooting and having any such utility in $PATH. I've never installed
> Gentoo before, so maybe I've missed something. Or maybe that page could use
> another link or some rewrite to clarify?
>
> I tried to find an answer via http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/ but it
> seems to lack a search function/box. :-(
> --
> "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
> words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
>
> Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
>
> Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/

mirrorselect is available in the system you're running before you
chroot.

I believe the instructions in the handbook you reference above assume
you've booted off a Gentoo install disk (which should have mirrorselect
on it.)

Todd

Felix Miata 05-12-2011 08:41 PM

mirrorselect on new install
 
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6 seems to
have a circular reference, that is, suggesting the use of the subject utility
prior to chrooting and having any such utility in $PATH. I've never installed
Gentoo before, so maybe I've missed something. Or maybe that page could use
another link or some rewrite to clarify?


I tried to find an answer via http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/ but it
seems to lack a search function/box. :-(

--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/

Mark Knecht 05-12-2011 08:52 PM

mirrorselect on new install
 
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 1:41 PM, Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6 seems
> to have a circular reference, that is, suggesting the use of the subject
> utility prior to chrooting and having any such utility in $PATH. I've never
> installed Gentoo before, so maybe I've missed something. Or maybe that page
> could use another link or some rewrite to clarify?
>
> I tried to find an answer via http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/ but it
> seems to lack a search function/box. :-(
> --
> "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
> words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
>
> *Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
>
> Felix Miata **** *http://fm.no-ip.com/
>
>

If it's the first line in the link, then this is done before the
chroot. Note that the path is the etc directory in the eventual
install. You get the make.conf file set up and then chroot. The guide
is correct.

mirrorselect -i -o >> /mnt/gentoo/etc/make.conf

That's not to say that it couldn't be done after the chroot. It
possibly could. I've never done it that way though.

Hope this helps,
Mark

mirrorselect -i -o >> /mnt/gentoo/etc/make.conf

Alan McKinnon 05-12-2011 08:57 PM

mirrorselect on new install
 
Apparently, though unproven, at 22:41 on Thursday 12 May 2011, Felix Miata did
opine thusly:

> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6 seems
> to have a circular reference, that is, suggesting the use of the subject
> utility prior to chrooting and having any such utility in $PATH. I've
> never installed Gentoo before, so maybe I've missed something. Or maybe
> that page could use another link or some rewrite to clarify?
>
> I tried to find an answer via http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/ but
> it seems to lack a search function/box. :-(


Where exactly is this supposed circular reference? As in, quote the exact text
and why you feel it is in error.

You have to select a mirror before the chroot step; to get a working chroot
you have to acquire a stage (usually by downloading it) and to do that you
need to select a download source.

--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Indi 05-12-2011 09:03 PM

mirrorselect on new install
 
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 10:50:02PM +0200, Felix Miata wrote:
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6 seems to
> have a circular reference, that is, suggesting the use of the subject utility
> prior to chrooting and having any such utility in $PATH. I've never installed
> Gentoo before, so maybe I've missed something. Or maybe that page could use
> another link or some rewrite to clarify?
>
> I tried to find an answer via http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/ but it
> seems to lack a search function/box. :-(
> --
> "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
> words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
>
> Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
>
> Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/

It's been quite awhile since I installed, but ISTR that mirrorselect
must be emerged after chrooting into the new envirnment.
You can also just add mirrors manually, like this:

GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://mirror.mcs.anl.gov/pub/gentoo/
ftp://mirror.mcs.anl.gov/pub/gentoo/"

--
caveat utilitor
♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫

Felix Miata 05-13-2011 12:06 AM

mirrorselect on new install
 
On 2011/05/12 17:03 (GMT-0400) Indi composed:


On 2011/05/12 16:41 (GMT-0400) Felix Miata composed:



http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6 seems to
have a circular reference, that is, suggesting the use of the subject utility
prior to chrooting and having any such utility in $PATH. I've never installed
Gentoo before, so maybe I've missed something. Or maybe that page could use
another link or some rewrite to clarify?



I tried to find an answer via http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/ but it
seems to lack a search function/box. :-(



It's been quite awhile since I installed, but ISTR that mirrorselect
must be emerged after chrooting into the new envirnment.
You can also just add mirrors manually, like this:



GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://mirror.mcs.anl.gov/pub/gentoo/
ftp://mirror.mcs.anl.gov/pub/gentoo/"


Since I'm familiar and happy with mirrors.us.kernel.org performance, I might
rather use that, or rsync.us.gentoo.org (if that's not yet another/separate
entry make.conf needs, not clear from my reading of the OP URL). So all
GENTOO_MIRRORS needs is the same URL once as http and once as ftp, or is that
something specific to mcs.anl.gov?


It's encouraging to try a new distro, join its mailing list, ask a question,
and get 3 answers within half an hour of asking, and even get one 17 minutes
before I asked the question (2011/05/12 16:24 (GMT-0400) Todd Goodman using
Mutt). :-)


In the pages preceding
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6 it
seemed as though the process would be easy enough, having built up some
experience working in chroot lately to fix fubar'd Fedora and Mandriva rpm
database disasters (https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=32547 &
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=680508).


I guess I missed the requirement to be running Gentoo to be able to initiate
an install of Gentoo. I thought whatever Linux was already installed would be
good enough, until I got to the mirrorselect instructions, and found no
incorporated alternative such as Indi has replied with. Indeed, not needing
to have booted Gentoo to run a Gentoo installer was part of the allure that
got me started.


I have more than 20 functional multiboot puters, with few having less than 4
installed operating systems. More typical is 12+. What I use 24/7 are
openSUSE and eComStation. Most of the rest are either backup, or
[OS,browser,web site] testing only.

--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/

Mark Knecht 05-13-2011 12:33 AM

mirrorselect on new install
 
On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On 2011/05/12 17:03 (GMT-0400) Indi composed:
>
>> On 2011/05/12 16:41 (GMT-0400) Felix Miata composed:
>
>>> *http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6
>>> seems to
>>> *have a circular reference, that is, suggesting the use of the subject
>>> utility
>>> *prior to chrooting and having any such utility in $PATH. I've never
>>> installed
>>> *Gentoo before, so maybe I've missed something. Or maybe that page could
>>> use
>>> *another link or some rewrite to clarify?
>
>>> *I tried to find an answer via http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/
>>> but it
>>> *seems to lack a search function/box. :-(
>
>> It's been quite awhile since I installed, but ISTR that mirrorselect
>> must be emerged after chrooting into the new envirnment.
>> You can also just add mirrors manually, like this:
>
>> GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://mirror.mcs.anl.gov/pub/gentoo/
>> ftp://mirror.mcs.anl.gov/pub/gentoo/"
>
> Since I'm familiar and happy with mirrors.us.kernel.org performance, I might
> rather use that, or rsync.us.gentoo.org (if that's not yet another/separate
> entry make.conf needs, not clear from my reading of the OP URL). So all
> GENTOO_MIRRORS needs is the same URL once as http and once as ftp, or is
> that something specific to mcs.anl.gov?
>
> It's encouraging to try a new distro, join its mailing list, ask a question,
> and get 3 answers within half an hour of asking, and even get one 17 minutes
> before I asked the question (2011/05/12 16:24 (GMT-0400) Todd Goodman using
> Mutt). :-)
>
> In the pages preceding
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6 it
> seemed as though the process would be easy enough, having built up some
> experience working in chroot lately to fix fubar'd Fedora and Mandriva rpm
> database disasters (https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=32547 &
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=680508).
>
> I guess I missed the requirement to be running Gentoo to be able to initiate
> an install of Gentoo. I thought whatever Linux was already installed would
> be good enough, until I got to the mirrorselect instructions, and found no
> incorporated alternative such as Indi has replied with. *Indeed, not needing
> to have booted Gentoo to run a Gentoo installer was part of the allure that
> got me started.
>
> I have more than 20 functional multiboot puters, with few having less than 4
> installed operating systems. More typical is 12+. What I use 24/7 are
> openSUSE and eComStation. Most of the rest are either backup, or
> [OS,browser,web site] testing only.
> --
> "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
> words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
>
> *Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
>
> Felix Miata **** *http://fm.no-ip.com/
>
>

Felix,
Welcome.

OK, I personally think (not speaking for anyone except myself
here...) that the Gentoo Install Guide is based on what Todd suggested
- the *idea* that the person that's following it booted a Gentoo
Install CD. That' a pretty natural assumption I think. You want to
install Fedora, you boot a Fedora CD, Ubuntu, Ubuntu CD, etc.

That does _not_ mean however that you MUST boot a Gentoo Install
CD, and it doesn't mean that you have to follow the guide explicitly.
For instance, I seldom set up mirrorselect on new installs as I
generally just copy a make.conf file from another machine and that
copy has the address. I typically don't use links to download the two
big tar file, I do that on some other machine that's already running
Gentoo and the ssh them over to do the new install.

I guess the point is that there are about as many ways as you want
to do this install. The documentation folks did what works for most
people and let others proceed on their own as they wish.

Hope this helps,
Mark

Indi 05-13-2011 12:35 AM

mirrorselect on new install
 
On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 02:20:01AM +0200, Felix Miata wrote:
> On 2011/05/12 17:03 (GMT-0400) Indi composed:
>
> > On 2011/05/12 16:41 (GMT-0400) Felix Miata composed:
>
> Since I'm familiar and happy with mirrors.us.kernel.org performance, I might
> rather use that, or rsync.us.gentoo.org (if that's not yet another/separate
> entry make.conf needs, not clear from my reading of the OP URL). So all
> GENTOO_MIRRORS needs is the same URL once as http and once as ftp, or is that
> something specific to mcs.anl.gov?
>

You can use either http, ftp, or rsync and you can use (AFAIK) as many entries
as you wish. I think it even works if you don't bother with it, too.


> It's encouraging to try a new distro, join its mailing list, ask a question,
> and get 3 answers within half an hour of asking, and even get one 17 minutes
> before I asked the question (2011/05/12 16:24 (GMT-0400) Todd Goodman using
> Mutt). :-)
>

Yes I love that too, as well as the fact that the documentation is
extremely thorough in most respects, and what little is lacking or
over my head is usually easily found via searching the fine web.

> In the pages preceding
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=6 it
> seemed as though the process would be easy enough, having built up some
> experience working in chroot lately to fix fubar'd Fedora and Mandriva rpm
> database disasters (https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=32547 &
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=680508).
>
> I guess I missed the requirement to be running Gentoo to be able to initiate
> an install of Gentoo. I thought whatever Linux was already installed would be
> good enough, until I got to the mirrorselect instructions, and found no
> incorporated alternative such as Indi has replied with. Indeed, not needing
> to have booted Gentoo to run a Gentoo installer was part of the allure that
> got me started.
>

I have never installed gentoo with a gentoo installer disc. Always
seemed unecessary.

> I have more than 20 functional multiboot puters, with few having less than 4
> installed operating systems. More typical is 12+. What I use 24/7 are
> openSUSE and eComStation. Most of the rest are either backup, or
> [OS,browser,web site] testing only.
>

Well you'll probably love gentoo. Once you get the make.conf and
package.use files figured out and all your hardware properly accounted
for it's just amazingly good, IME.
I'm totally spoiled by gentoo, and sure do notice that everytime
I have to use any other system.

--
caveat utilitor
♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫ ❤ ♫

Alan McKinnon 05-13-2011 12:37 AM

mirrorselect on new install
 
Apparently, though unproven, at 02:06 on Friday 13 May 2011, Felix Miata did
opine thusly:

> I guess I missed the requirement to be running Gentoo to be able to
> initiate an install of Gentoo.

This is not correct

> I thought whatever Linux was already
> installed would be good enough,

this is correct

> until I got to the mirrorselect
> instructions, and found no incorporated alternative such as Indi has
> replied with. Indeed, not needing to have booted Gentoo to run a Gentoo
> installer was part of the allure that got me started.

That part of the doc assumes that the user is indeed running from the
LiveCD-like environment provided by the official installer. There are other
docs (far less verbose in their explanations) covering alternate install
sources.

All an installer (for any distro does) is write stuff to disk, and what it
writes is in the correct format so that when the user reboots into it, what
has been written there functions correctly as an OS.

Most distros provide a customized environment to do this in, usually in the
form of a bootable CD. This works well for them because that installer was
coded to take care of all the distro's quirks (and to provide a seamless
installer, and if necessary to dumb it down to the point where Aunt Tillie can
do it).

There is no *requirement* anywhere that the installer OS matches the installed
OS. Heck the installer can even be Windows, and in the case of Wubi, is IS
windows :-) Virtually anything that can fetch, use and unpack a stage3 then do
a chroot works fine as an installer, as long as it has drivers for your
hardware and the filesystem you plan to use.

Of all the Gentoo installs I have done, I can only remember the first ever
using a Gentoo installer - that was long ago when doing a stage1 earned
streetcred points. Nowadays doing a stage1 usually tags you as a sado-
masochist (but I digress). All my installs since then have been whatever
LiveCD I happen to have handy, usually Ubuntu or my trusty RIPLinux rescue
system on a flash drive.




--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Felix Miata 05-13-2011 01:40 AM

mirrorselect on new install
 
On 2011/05/13 02:37 (GMT+0200) Alan McKinnon composed:


That part of the doc assumes that the user is indeed running from the
LiveCD-like environment provided by the official installer. There are other
docs (far less verbose in their explanations) covering alternate install
sources.


My actual starting point was "The Gentoo Linux alternative installation
method HOWTO" <http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/altinstall.xml#doc_chap5>. It was
from its link to
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=4 that I
wound up at the OP link after two next clicks.



Most distros provide a customized environment to do this in, usually in the
form of a bootable CD.


I used a few of those many many moons ago, but have only installed in recent
years using an installation kernel and initrd loaded by Grub, and usually via
HTTP, rarely by a previously downloaded iso. This installation via chroot is
completely new to me, though I suspect it's probably common among paid OS
devs, not unique to Gentoo.

--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/


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