FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Gentoo > Gentoo User

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 02-09-2011, 12:51 PM
James
 
Default Disk Labels in Handbook

Hello,

So looking at the handbook, I was wondering
why it does not describe how to use Disk Labels
during the installation process. Dunno.

So I poised this question on gentoo-doc
and got this encouraging response from *JOSH*

snip
Some discussion on modifying the Gentoo Handbook to describe
how to use Disk Labels is warranted? Many have switched to
disk labels in fstab. Maybe the Gentoo handbook should include
a section on disk label usage to prepare for the future?

and Josh replied:

These aren't needed to get a system up and running. Yeah, Ubuntu uses
them for various ID purposes, but nothing really critical. Unless
there's a clear need for them, for example if some package in the
@system set will use them in a way that our users will see, I doubt
the handbook needs to cover them. Adding labels using udev just seems
very finicky and time-consuming, and doesn't seem like it would be of
much utility when users are already swamped with everything else the
handbook asks them to do.

If someone's willing to provide the text, then sure, I'll consider
adding it to the handbooks, but if not, then I won't spend any energy
trying to write something up. Things like GPT for hard disks are far
more important, now that the large-size disks are shipping with it
rather than the old MSDOS partition arrangement..


So, I opened up a bug on disk labels and the handbook, hoping
that knowledgable users I will post to this bug # 354229.


James
 
Old 02-09-2011, 01:16 PM
Dale
 
Default Disk Labels in Handbook

James wrote:

Hello,

So looking at the handbook, I was wondering
why it does not describe how to use Disk Labels
during the installation process. Dunno.

So I poised this question on gentoo-doc
and got this encouraging response from *JOSH*

snip


James




Given that some folks on here have ran into USB drives changing the
order of partitions, I think this is a good idea. If needed, they could
at least introduce the subject then have it link to another page. Even
if it is the simplest label of using boot, root and such labels and
maybe a mention that there are other ways to accomplish the same thing.


I ran into this issue a while back when I added a hard drive and it was
not easy to work with. When I boot a CD/DVD, it sees them as hd*
instead of sd* so that didn't help since the OS kernel sees them as sd*.


It may be uphill to get this included or at least linked to something
else explaining it but I think it is a good idea. I also added myself
to the bug as well. I saw the post on -doc.


Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 02-09-2011, 01:27 PM
Mark Knecht
 
Default Disk Labels in Handbook

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 6:16 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> James wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> So looking at the handbook, I was wondering
>> why it does not describe how to use Disk Labels
>> during the installation process. Dunno.
>>
>> So I poised this question on gentoo-doc
>> and got this encouraging response from *JOSH*
>>
>> snip
>>
>>
>> James
>>
>>
>
> Given that some folks on here have ran into USB drives changing the order of
> partitions, I think this is a good idea. *If needed, they could at least
> introduce the subject then have it link to another page. *Even if it is the
> simplest label of using boot, root and such labels and maybe a mention that
> there are other ways to accomplish the same thing.
>
> I ran into this issue a while back when I added a hard drive and it was not
> easy to work with. *When I boot a CD/DVD, it sees them as hd* instead of sd*
> so that didn't help since the OS kernel sees them as sd*.
>
> It may be uphill to get this included or at least linked to something else
> explaining it but I think it is a good idea. *I also added myself to the bug
> as well. *I saw the post on -doc.
>
> Dale
>

Following Walt's recent thread about his experiences using grub2 I
think getting folks used to disk labels at installation time, be they
names or even better UUID's, might fit in very well with installation
instructions that cover using grub2 instead of grub as a boot loader.

- Mark
 
Old 02-09-2011, 03:16 PM
Jarry
 
Default Disk Labels in Handbook

On 9. 2. 2011 15:16, Dale wrote:


So looking at the handbook, I was wondering
why it does not describe how to use Disk Labels
during the installation process. Dunno.


Given that some folks on here have ran into USB drives changing the
order of partitions, I think this is a good idea.


The same happened to me when I attached one more sata-drive.
After that those two which used to be /dev/sda and /dev/sdb
suddenly became /dev/sdb and /dev/sdc (and the new one
was now /dev/sda). No matter how I tried to switch cables or
ports, they kept to be detected as 2nd and 3rd sata-drives.

So I agree there should be at least some basic info about
disk-labels in the handbook.

Jarry

--
__________________________________________________ _____________
This mailbox accepts e-mails only from selected mailing-lists!
Everything else is considered to be spam and therefore deleted.
 
Old 02-09-2011, 07:08 PM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default Disk Labels in Handbook

On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 13:51:46 +0000 (UTC), James wrote:

> These aren't needed to get a system up and running. Yeah, Ubuntu uses
> them for various ID purposes, but nothing really critical. Unless
> there's a clear need for them, for example if some package in the
> @system set will use them in a way that our users will see, I doubt
> the handbook needs to cover them. Adding labels using udev just seems
> very finicky and time-consuming, and doesn't seem like it would be of
> much utility when users are already swamped with everything else the
> handbook asks them to do.


Josh seems to be referring to UUID type disk labels, not filesystem
labels. Which are you talking about?
 
Old 02-09-2011, 07:58 PM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default Disk Labels in Handbook

Apparently, though unproven, at 16:27 on Wednesday 09 February 2011, Mark
Knecht did opine thusly:

> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 6:16 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> > James wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> So looking at the handbook, I was wondering
> >> why it does not describe how to use Disk Labels
> >> during the installation process. Dunno.
> >>
> >> So I poised this question on gentoo-doc
> >> and got this encouraging response from *JOSH*
> >>
> >> snip
> >>
> >>
> >> James
> >
> > Given that some folks on here have ran into USB drives changing the order
> > of partitions, I think this is a good idea. If needed, they could at
> > least introduce the subject then have it link to another page. Even if
> > it is the simplest label of using boot, root and such labels and maybe a
> > mention that there are other ways to accomplish the same thing.
> >
> > I ran into this issue a while back when I added a hard drive and it was
> > not easy to work with. When I boot a CD/DVD, it sees them as hd*
> > instead of sd* so that didn't help since the OS kernel sees them as sd*.
> >
> > It may be uphill to get this included or at least linked to something
> > else explaining it but I think it is a good idea. I also added myself
> > to the bug as well. I saw the post on -doc.
> >
> > Dale
>
> Following Walt's recent thread about his experiences using grub2 I
> think getting folks used to disk labels at installation time, be they
> names or even better UUID's, might fit in very well with installation
> instructions that cover using grub2 instead of grub as a boot loader.

From a practical perspective, fs labels are easier than GUIDs, so I would
recommend labels. Users can invent their own descriptive labels at install
time and enter that into fstab.

"LABEL=SERVER1-ROOT" is not much more effort than "/dev/sda3"

GUIDs are another story. They get autogenerated, are invariably displayed on
the screen along with a huge number of other GUIDs (Murphy) and one has to
copy paste the damn things into vi.

GUIDs are great for ubuntu where an install script does all the heavy lifting,
but Gentoo, being a vastly superior operating system, has made the
devastatingly astounding assumption that users are actually able to think and
type. Whodathunkedit?

If we expect users to type stuff, we should set it up so they type easy stuff
:-)

--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
 
Old 02-10-2011, 09:00 AM
Petri Rosenström
 
Default Disk Labels in Handbook

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> Apparently, though unproven, at 16:27 on Wednesday 09 February 2011, Mark
> Knecht did opine thusly:
>
>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 6:16 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > James wrote:
>> >> Hello,
>> >>
>> >> So looking at the handbook, I was wondering
>> >> why it does not describe how to use Disk Labels
>> >> during the installation process. Dunno.
>> >>
>> >> So I poised this question on gentoo-doc
>> >> and got this encouraging response from *JOSH*
>> >>
>> >> snip
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> James
>> >
>> > Given that some folks on here have ran into USB drives changing the order
>> > of partitions, I think this is a good idea. *If needed, they could at
>> > least introduce the subject then have it link to another page. *Even if
>> > it is the simplest label of using boot, root and such labels and maybe a
>> > mention that there are other ways to accomplish the same thing.
>> >
>> > I ran into this issue a while back when I added a hard drive and it was
>> > not easy to work with. *When I boot a CD/DVD, it sees them as hd*
>> > instead of sd* so that didn't help since the OS kernel sees them as sd*.
>> >
>> > It may be uphill to get this included or at least linked to something
>> > else explaining it but I think it is a good idea. *I also added myself
>> > to the bug as well. *I saw the post on -doc.
>> >
>> > Dale
>>
>> Following Walt's recent thread about his experiences using grub2 I
>> think getting folks used to disk labels at installation time, be they
>> names or even better UUID's, might fit in very well with installation
>> instructions that cover using grub2 instead of grub as a boot loader.
>
> From a practical perspective, fs labels are easier than GUIDs, so I would
> recommend labels. Users can invent their own descriptive labels at install
> time and enter that into fstab.
>
> "LABEL=SERVER1-ROOT" is not much more effort than "/dev/sda3"
>
> GUIDs are another story. They get autogenerated, are invariably displayed on
> the screen along with a huge number of other GUIDs (Murphy) and one has to
> copy paste the damn things into vi.
>
> GUIDs are great for ubuntu where an install script does all the heavy lifting,
> but Gentoo, being a vastly superior operating system, has made the
> devastatingly astounding assumption that users are actually able to think and
> type. Whodathunkedit?
>
> If we expect users to type stuff, we should set it up so they type easy stuff
> :-)
>
> --
> alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
>
>

Hi,

If you use vi(m) you don't have to type too much neither. Just use
:r!blkid /dev/sda in vi(m) and you have the UUID, with some additional
information, but the rest is just vi(m) magic.

Best regards
Petri
 
Old 02-10-2011, 11:00 AM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default Disk Labels in Handbook

On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:00:24 +0200, Petri Rosenström wrote:

> If you use vi(m) you don't have to type too much neither. Just use
> :r!blkid /dev/sda in vi(m) and you have the UUID, with some additional
> information, but the rest is just vi(m) magic.

None of which makes fstab any more readable. UUIDs are the worst option
in this respect, although they do allow disks to be moved around.
Filesystem labels are the best option for readability and not only do
they allow disks to be moved but also individual filesystems.
 
Old 02-10-2011, 11:31 AM
Dale
 
Default Disk Labels in Handbook

Neil Bothwick wrote:

On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:00:24 +0200, Petri Rosenström wrote:



If you use vi(m) you don't have to type too much neither. Just use
:r!blkid /dev/sda in vi(m) and you have the UUID, with some additional
information, but the rest is just vi(m) magic.


None of which makes fstab any more readable. UUIDs are the worst option
in this respect, although they do allow disks to be moved around.
Filesystem labels are the best option for readability and not only do
they allow disks to be moved but also individual filesystems.



When I switched mine, I looked into the UUID option but never could
figure out how to tell which is what. I have /boot, /, /home, /portage
and /var but how do you get it to tell you the number for say /home? Of
all the stuff I read, I never did find that.


I agree tho, using the plain labels are easier to understand. Even I
got that right. ;-)


Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 02-10-2011, 11:39 AM
Joost Roeleveld
 
Default Disk Labels in Handbook

On Thursday 10 February 2011 06:31:12 Dale wrote:
> Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 12:00:24 +0200, Petri Rosenström wrote:
> >> If you use vi(m) you don't have to type too much neither. Just use
> >>
> >> :r!blkid /dev/sda in vi(m) and you have the UUID, with some
> >> :additional
> >>
> >> information, but the rest is just vi(m) magic.
> >
> > None of which makes fstab any more readable. UUIDs are the worst option
> > in this respect, although they do allow disks to be moved around.
> > Filesystem labels are the best option for readability and not only do
> > they allow disks to be moved but also individual filesystems.
>
> When I switched mine, I looked into the UUID option but never could
> figure out how to tell which is what. I have /boot, /, /home, /portage
> and /var but how do you get it to tell you the number for say /home? Of
> all the stuff I read, I never did find that.
>
> I agree tho, using the plain labels are easier to understand. Even I
> got that right. ;-)
>
> Dale
>
> :-) :-)

Dale,

Thanks to the email from Petri Rosenström earlier, I finally figured it out.
If you know the current /dev/.... for it, use:
blkid /dev/....
That will give you the UUID

--
Joost
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 08:38 AM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright ©2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org