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Old 10-31-2010, 08:34 AM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default Winter clock change did not happen

Apparently, though unproven, at 11:24 on Sunday 31 October 2010, Mick did
opine thusly:

> I dual boot with MSWindows and therefore have set up my /etc/conf.d/clock
> to:
>
> CLOCK="local"
> TIMEZONE="Europe/London"
> CLOCK_OPTS=""
> CLOCK_SYSTOHC="no"
> SRM="no"
> ARC="no"
>
> I noticed this morning that the clock was still showing summer time (I
> rarely boot into MSWindows).
>
> I had to boot into MSWindows to check what happens there and the clock was
> showing the new winter time. After that the Linux clock was also showing
> the updated winter time.
>
> Does this mean that twice a year when the clock changes I need to boot into
> MSWindows first to allow the time change to take place, or is there a Linux
> side fix for my dual boot set up?

gut feel tells me windows is broken.

All my calendars (electronic and dead-tree) tell me that daylight savings
switches at the END of today not at the beginning


--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
 
Old 10-31-2010, 09:05 AM
Peter Humphrey
 
Default Winter clock change did not happen

On Sunday 31 October 2010 09:34:25 Alan McKinnon wrote:

> All my calendars (electronic and dead-tree) tell me that daylight
> savings switches at the END of today not at the beginning

That's not true in the UK: the switch is done at 02:00 on the Sunday. My
Gentoo and Ubuntu boxes have switched to GMT correctly this morning, and
so has the radio-synchronised clock on the kitchen wall.

I think Mick does have a problem in his Gentoo setup.

--
Rgds
Peter. Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23.
 
Old 10-31-2010, 10:32 AM
Mick
 
Default Winter clock change did not happen

On Sunday 31 October 2010 10:05:15 Peter Humphrey wrote:
> On Sunday 31 October 2010 09:34:25 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > All my calendars (electronic and dead-tree) tell me that daylight
> > savings switches at the END of today not at the beginning
>
> That's not true in the UK: the switch is done at 02:00 on the Sunday. My
> Gentoo and Ubuntu boxes have switched to GMT correctly this morning, and
> so has the radio-synchronised clock on the kitchen wall.
>
> I think Mick does have a problem in his Gentoo setup.

:-(

Thanks Peter, do you dual boot with MSWindows?

I've noticed this problem on two different boxen, both of them dual boot with
MSWindows. A Gentoo only box of mine switched over to winter time correctly -
so it must be my dual boot set up that is causing this problem.
--
Regards,
Mick
 
Old 10-31-2010, 11:01 AM
Peter Humphrey
 
Default Winter clock change did not happen

On Sunday 31 October 2010 11:32:59 Mick wrote:

> I've noticed this problem on two different boxen, both of them dual
> boot with MSWindows. A Gentoo only box of mine switched over to
> winter time correctly - so it must be my dual boot set up that is
> causing this problem.

I have a dual-booting laptop; I'll try that this afternoon. Otherwise
Windows isn't given house-room here.

--
Rgds
Peter. Linux Counter 5290, 1994-04-23.
 
Old 10-31-2010, 11:56 AM
Stéphane Guedon
 
Default Winter clock change did not happen

Le Sunday 31 October 2010 12:32:59, Mick a écrit :
> On Sunday 31 October 2010 10:05:15 Peter Humphrey wrote:
> > On Sunday 31 October 2010 09:34:25 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > > All my calendars (electronic and dead-tree) tell me that daylight
> > > savings switches at the END of today not at the beginning
> >
> > That's not true in the UK: the switch is done at 02:00 on the Sunday. My
> > Gentoo and Ubuntu boxes have switched to GMT correctly this morning, and
> > so has the radio-synchronised clock on the kitchen wall.
> >
> > I think Mick does have a problem in his Gentoo setup.
> >
> :-(
>
> Thanks Peter, do you dual boot with MSWindows?
>
> I've noticed this problem on two different boxen, both of them dual boot
> with MSWindows. A Gentoo only box of mine switched over to winter time
> correctly - so it must be my dual boot set up that is causing this
> problem.

Same thing in France where changing time is at 03:00 => 02:00 on sunday
morning !

And I am on dual boot too !

--
Stéphane Guedon
page web : http://www.22decembre.eu/
carte de visite : http://www.22decembre.eu/downloads/Stephane-Guedon.vcf
clé publique gpg : http://www.22decembre.eu/downloads/Stephane-Guedon.asc
 
Old 10-31-2010, 12:27 PM
 
Default Winter clock change did not happen

Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:

> I dual boot with MSWindows and therefore have set up my /etc/conf.d/clock to:
>
> CLOCK="local"
> TIMEZONE="Europe/London"
> CLOCK_OPTS=""
> CLOCK_SYSTOHC="no"
> SRM="no"
> ARC="no"
>
> I noticed this morning that the clock was still showing summer time (I rarely
> boot into MSWindows).

Was Linux running since before the time change? I suppose it would at
least show the right time if that was the case. If it works, you still
need CLOCK_SYSTOHC="yes" if you want Linux to change the clock.

Linux has no way to know if the time change was done (nor windows),
unless the systems are syncing with other clock (NTP), so both of them
will boot up and think this "local" time is the winter time.

The systems may still register if they already did the timezone change,
so that they know what to do (that was the case with windows 98).

> I had to boot into MSWindows to check what happens there and the clock was
> showing the new winter time. After that the Linux clock was also showing the
> updated winter time.
>
> Does this mean that twice a year when the clock changes I need to boot into
> MSWindows first to allow the time change to take place, or is there a Linux
> side fix for my dual boot set up?

You can write something so that Linux changes the clock, but then be
sure Windows is not set to change it.

A better (read "more complicated") solution would involve some sync
mechanism between both operating systems so that one can tell if the
other already changed the clock.

Unless windows now supports UTC clocks, you have to live either with
this or with an always on winter clock on windows.

--
Nuno J. Silva
gopher://sdf-eu.org/1/users/njsg
 
Old 10-31-2010, 12:29 PM
 
Default Winter clock change did not happen

Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sunday 31 October 2010 10:05:15 Peter Humphrey wrote:
>> On Sunday 31 October 2010 09:34:25 Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> > All my calendars (electronic and dead-tree) tell me that daylight
>> > savings switches at the END of today not at the beginning
>>
>> That's not true in the UK: the switch is done at 02:00 on the Sunday. My
>> Gentoo and Ubuntu boxes have switched to GMT correctly this morning, and
>> so has the radio-synchronised clock on the kitchen wall.
>>
>> I think Mick does have a problem in his Gentoo setup.
>
> :-(
>
> Thanks Peter, do you dual boot with MSWindows?
>
> I've noticed this problem on two different boxen, both of them dual boot with
> MSWindows. A Gentoo only box of mine switched over to winter time correctly -
> so it must be my dual boot set up that is causing this problem.

It is a problem caused by the settings needed for Linux to live with
Windows on the same computer.

--
Nuno J. Silva
gopher://sdf-eu.org/1/users/njsg
 
Old 10-31-2010, 12:43 PM
Mick
 
Default Winter clock change did not happen

On Sunday 31 October 2010 13:29:20 Nuno J. Silva wrote:
> Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:
> > On Sunday 31 October 2010 10:05:15 Peter Humphrey wrote:
> >> On Sunday 31 October 2010 09:34:25 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> >> > All my calendars (electronic and dead-tree) tell me that daylight
> >> > savings switches at the END of today not at the beginning
> >>
> >> That's not true in the UK: the switch is done at 02:00 on the Sunday. My
> >> Gentoo and Ubuntu boxes have switched to GMT correctly this morning, and
> >> so has the radio-synchronised clock on the kitchen wall.
> >>
> >> I think Mick does have a problem in his Gentoo setup.
> >>
> > :-(
> >
> > Thanks Peter, do you dual boot with MSWindows?
> >
> > I've noticed this problem on two different boxen, both of them dual boot
> > with MSWindows. A Gentoo only box of mine switched over to winter time
> > correctly - so it must be my dual boot set up that is causing this
> > problem.
>
> It is a problem caused by the settings needed for Linux to live with
> Windows on the same computer.

Is there a fix? I thought that the setting of CLOCK="local" in
/etc/conf.d/clock was to address the problem of having to dual boot with
MSWindows.
--
Regards,
Mick
 
Old 10-31-2010, 12:50 PM
Mick
 
Default Winter clock change did not happen

On Sunday 31 October 2010 13:27:11 Nuno J. Silva wrote:
> Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:
> > I dual boot with MSWindows and therefore have set up my /etc/conf.d/clock
> > to:
> >
> > CLOCK="local"
> > TIMEZONE="Europe/London"
> > CLOCK_OPTS=""
> > CLOCK_SYSTOHC="no"
> > SRM="no"
> > ARC="no"
> >
> > I noticed this morning that the clock was still showing summer time (I
> > rarely boot into MSWindows).
>
> Was Linux running since before the time change? I suppose it would at
> least show the right time if that was the case. If it works, you still
> need CLOCK_SYSTOHC="yes" if you want Linux to change the clock.
>
> Linux has no way to know if the time change was done (nor windows),
> unless the systems are syncing with other clock (NTP), so both of them
> will boot up and think this "local" time is the winter time.
>
> The systems may still register if they already did the timezone change,
> so that they know what to do (that was the case with windows 98).
>
> > I had to boot into MSWindows to check what happens there and the clock
> > was showing the new winter time. After that the Linux clock was also
> > showing the updated winter time.
> >
> > Does this mean that twice a year when the clock changes I need to boot
> > into MSWindows first to allow the time change to take place, or is there
> > a Linux side fix for my dual boot set up?
>
> You can write something so that Linux changes the clock, but then be
> sure Windows is not set to change it.
> my
> A better (read "more complicated") solution would involve some sync
> mechanism between both operating systems so that one can tell if the
> other already changed the clock.
>
> Unless windows now supports UTC clocks, you have to live either with
> this or with an always on winter clock on windows.

Thanks Nuno, this explains well why my Gentoo did not change the time - I do
not have NTP set up on it and rely on MSWindows to sync with a time server
once a month or so that I boot into it for just this reason. This is a new
laptop and it seems to keep the time reliably for now. In the future I may
well set up NTP if I find that the time in Gentoo is drifting (enough for me
to notice).
--
Regards,
Mick
 
Old 10-31-2010, 03:02 PM
 
Default Winter clock change did not happen

Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sunday 31 October 2010 13:29:20 Nuno J. Silva wrote:
>> Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:
>> > On Sunday 31 October 2010 10:05:15 Peter Humphrey wrote:
>> >> On Sunday 31 October 2010 09:34:25 Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> >> > All my calendars (electronic and dead-tree) tell me that daylight
>> >> > savings switches at the END of today not at the beginning
>> >>
>> >> That's not true in the UK: the switch is done at 02:00 on the Sunday. My
>> >> Gentoo and Ubuntu boxes have switched to GMT correctly this morning, and
>> >> so has the radio-synchronised clock on the kitchen wall.
>> >>
>> >> I think Mick does have a problem in his Gentoo setup.
>> >>
>> > :-(
>> >
>> > Thanks Peter, do you dual boot with MSWindows?
>> >
>> > I've noticed this problem on two different boxen, both of them dual boot
>> > with MSWindows. A Gentoo only box of mine switched over to winter time
>> > correctly - so it must be my dual boot set up that is causing this
>> > problem.
>>
>> It is a problem caused by the settings needed for Linux to live with
>> Windows on the same computer.
>
> Is there a fix? I thought that the setting of CLOCK="local" in
> /etc/conf.d/clock was to address the problem of having to dual boot with
> MSWindows.

That is the setting I was talking about (I wonder why I said
"setting*s*" before, sorry for that).

It is used to address the problem that Windows expects the hardware
clock to have the local time value (hence "local"), that is, what you
see when you ask the computer what time is it. Because the usual setting
is UTC, that is, time with no timezone and/or DST "shift" - GNU/linux
does the math and shows you your local time. Local time clock forces you
(or the OS) to change it every time there is some DST change.

In other words, that makes linux use the hardware clock the same way
windows uses it.

--
Nuno J. Silva
gopher://sdf-eu.org/1/users/njsg
 

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