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Old 06-28-2010, 05:12 PM
Mark Knecht
 
Default emerge all but...

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:55 AM, <meino.cramer@gmx.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> is it possible to emerge all missing dependencies of a certain
> application without emerging the application itself? And: Will
> I hurt the system that way?
>
> Best regards,
> mcc

???

emerge -DuN application

???

What am I missing in the question?

Test it on a clean app with no dependencies missing. It should emerge
nothing. Then emerge -C one dependency and try it again. It should
pick up that dependency but not emerge the app itself.

You will not hurt your system doing that command.

- Mark
 
Old 06-28-2010, 05:43 PM
 
Default emerge all but...

Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> [10-06-28 19:16]:
> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:55 AM, <meino.cramer@gmx.de> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > is it possible to emerge all missing dependencies of a certain
> > application without emerging the application itself? And: Will
> > I hurt the system that way?
> >
> > Best regards,
> > mcc
>
> ???
>
> emerge -DuN application
>
> ???
>
> What am I missing in the question?
>
> Test it on a clean app with no dependencies missing. It should emerge
> nothing. Then emerge -C one dependency and try it again. It should
> pick up that dependency but not emerge the app itself.
>
> You will not hurt your system doing that command.
>
> - Mark
>

Hi Mark,

thanks a lot!

You helped me!
Best regards,
mcc
 
Old 06-29-2010, 01:33 AM
Crístian Viana
 
Default emerge all but...

wouldn't it be:
emerge -o package
?
"emerge -DuN package" _will_ install the package itself.

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:


On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:55 AM, *<meino.cramer@gmx.de> wrote:



> Hi,

>

> is it possible to emerge all missing dependencies of a certain

> application without emerging the application itself? And: Will

> I hurt the system that way?

>

> Best regards,

> mcc



???



emerge -DuN application



???



What am I missing in the question?



Test it on a clean app with no dependencies missing. It should emerge

nothing. Then emerge -C one dependency and try it again. It should

pick up that dependency but not emerge the app itself.



You will not hurt your system doing that command.



- Mark
 
Old 06-29-2010, 01:43 AM
Mark Knecht
 
Default emerge all but...

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 6:33 PM, Crístian Viana
<cristiandeives@gmail.com> wrote:
> wouldn't it be:
> emerge -o package
> ?

No, I believe that would emerge the package _without_ emerging the
dependencies. If I understood the OP's original question he wanted to
make sure package dependencies were emerged if missing for some
reason. (For instance, he's done an emerge --depclean and it cleaned
out something that he still needs.)

Cheers,
Mark
 
Old 06-29-2010, 01:46 AM
Mark Knecht
 
Default emerge all but...

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 6:33 PM, Crístian Viana
> <cristiandeives@gmail.com> wrote:
>> wouldn't it be:
>> emerge -o package
>> ?
>
> No, I believe that would emerge the package _without_ emerging the
> dependencies. If I understood the OP's original question he wanted to
> make sure package dependencies were emerged if missing for some
> reason. (For instance, he's done an emerge --depclean and it cleaned
> out something that he still needs.)
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>

Oops! My mistake. I was looking at capital O, not lower case o.

Yes, according to the man page your solution would work also.

Cheers,
Mark
 
Old 06-29-2010, 02:45 PM
Mark Knecht
 
Default emerge all but...

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Mark Knecht <markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:55 AM, *<meino.cramer@gmx.de> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> is it possible to emerge all missing dependencies of a certain
>> application without emerging the application itself? And: Will
>> I hurt the system that way?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> mcc
>
> ???
>
> emerge -DuN application
>
> ???
>
> What am I missing in the question?
>
> Test it on a clean app with no dependencies missing. It should emerge
> nothing. Then emerge -C one dependency and try it again. It should
> pick up that dependency but not emerge the app itself.
>
> You will not hurt your system doing that command.
>
> - Mark
>

I wanted to follow up on my somewhat cavalier comment a couple of days
ago about doing emerge -C on a dependency. It was a bad comment for me
to make without adding some discussion around it. This can actually
harm your system if you emerge -C the wrong dependency. For instance,
emerge -C gcc or python is likely a bad thing to do as you will be
unable to build anything to get the system fixed again. However emerge
-C jack-audio-connection-kit as a dependency for something like Ardour
wouldn't harm the system but would demonstrate what I was talking
about.

Any new user reading this thread at some future date should ensure
that (at a minimum) if they emerge -C anything at all that at least
it's not part of @system. emerge should warn of this but it's best to
do a little study before pushing the enter key.

Cheers,
Mark
 
Old 06-29-2010, 03:14 PM
Dale
 
Default emerge all but...

Mark Knecht wrote:

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com> wrote:


On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:55 AM,<meino.cramer@gmx.de> wrote:


Hi,

is it possible to emerge all missing dependencies of a certain
application without emerging the application itself? And: Will
I hurt the system that way?

Best regards,
mcc


???

emerge -DuN application

???

What am I missing in the question?

Test it on a clean app with no dependencies missing. It should emerge
nothing. Then emerge -C one dependency and try it again. It should
pick up that dependency but not emerge the app itself.

You will not hurt your system doing that command.

- Mark



I wanted to follow up on my somewhat cavalier comment a couple of days
ago about doing emerge -C on a dependency. It was a bad comment for me
to make without adding some discussion around it. This can actually
harm your system if you emerge -C the wrong dependency. For instance,
emerge -C gcc or python is likely a bad thing to do as you will be
unable to build anything to get the system fixed again. However emerge
-C jack-audio-connection-kit as a dependency for something like Ardour
wouldn't harm the system but would demonstrate what I was talking
about.

Any new user reading this thread at some future date should ensure
that (at a minimum) if they emerge -C anything at all that at least
it's not part of @system. emerge should warn of this but it's best to
do a little study before pushing the enter key.

Cheers,
Mark




It is good that you explained that more. I thought about the same thing
but thought maybe I was missing something that was mentioned earlier in
another message.


I wouldn't always count on portage warning before removing a system
package tho. I tested this by trying to remove python and portage said
nothing it doesn't say on any other package even one in the world file.
Future users may want to ask first either here or on the forums before
removing something that may be questionable.


It may not be a bad idea for a thread with packages that should never be
removed. Things such as gcc, python, baselayout etc. Maybe a user
would find that and at least have a general guide. I also think it
would be a good idea to have the same on the forums as a "sticky" thread
that the mods can edit from time to time.


Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 06-29-2010, 03:48 PM
Mark Knecht
 
Default emerge all but...

On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 8:14 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mark Knecht wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com>
>> *wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:55 AM,<meino.cramer@gmx.de> *wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> is it possible to emerge all missing dependencies of a certain
>>>> application without emerging the application itself? And: Will
>>>> I hurt the system that way?
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> mcc
>>>>
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> emerge -DuN application
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> What am I missing in the question?
>>>
>>> Test it on a clean app with no dependencies missing. It should emerge
>>> nothing. Then emerge -C one dependency and try it again. It should
>>> pick up that dependency but not emerge the app itself.
>>>
>>> You will not hurt your system doing that command.
>>>
>>> - Mark
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I wanted to follow up on my somewhat cavalier comment a couple of days
>> ago about doing emerge -C on a dependency. It was a bad comment for me
>> to make without adding some discussion around it. This can actually
>> harm your system if you emerge -C the wrong dependency. For instance,
>> emerge -C gcc or python is likely a bad thing to do as you will be
>> unable to build anything to get the system fixed again. However emerge
>> -C jack-audio-connection-kit as a dependency for something like Ardour
>> wouldn't harm the system but would demonstrate what I was talking
>> about.
>>
>> Any new user reading this thread at some future date should ensure
>> that (at a minimum) if they emerge -C anything at all that at least
>> it's not part of @system. emerge should warn of this but it's best to
>> do a little study before pushing the enter key.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Mark
>>
>>
>
> It is good that you explained that more. *I thought about the same thing but
> thought maybe I was missing something that was mentioned earlier in another
> message.
>
> I wouldn't always count on portage warning before removing a system package
> tho. *I tested this by trying to remove python and portage said nothing it
> doesn't say on any other package even one in the world file. *Future users
> may want to ask first either here or on the forums before removing something
> that may be questionable.
>
> It may not be a bad idea for a thread with packages that should never be
> removed. *Things such as gcc, python, baselayout etc. *Maybe a user would
> find that and at least have a general guide. *I also think it would be a
> good idea to have the same on the forums as a "sticky" thread that the mods
> can edit from time to time.
>
> Dale

Dale,
The last thing I want to do is cause anyone any trouble. From that
point it's easier to just stay quiet all the time and let others more
experienced than myself answer all the questions. However I don't
really want to act that way - taking and never giving.

I like your idea about lists of packages that should never be
removed. Personally I think a doc doc page somewhere in the
install/maintenance doc group would be good but it would need to be
well maintained. Understanding the absolute minimum number of things
that are required to use emerge and get a package built would be a
good doc, if it doesn't exist somewhere already.

Personally I'm never 100% sure about anything that's not an
application package I installed myself and is sitting in the world
file. I suspect others - possibly you included - have similar fears at
times.

Cheers,
Mark
 
Old 06-29-2010, 04:40 PM
Dale
 
Default emerge all but...

Mark Knecht wrote:

On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 8:14 AM, Dale<rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:


Mark Knecht wrote:


On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Mark Knecht<markknecht@gmail.com>
wrote:



On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:55 AM,<meino.cramer@gmx.de> wrote:



Hi,

is it possible to emerge all missing dependencies of a certain
application without emerging the application itself? And: Will
I hurt the system that way?

Best regards,
mcc



???

emerge -DuN application

???

What am I missing in the question?

Test it on a clean app with no dependencies missing. It should emerge
nothing. Then emerge -C one dependency and try it again. It should
pick up that dependency but not emerge the app itself.

You will not hurt your system doing that command.

- Mark




I wanted to follow up on my somewhat cavalier comment a couple of days
ago about doing emerge -C on a dependency. It was a bad comment for me
to make without adding some discussion around it. This can actually
harm your system if you emerge -C the wrong dependency. For instance,
emerge -C gcc or python is likely a bad thing to do as you will be
unable to build anything to get the system fixed again. However emerge
-C jack-audio-connection-kit as a dependency for something like Ardour
wouldn't harm the system but would demonstrate what I was talking
about.

Any new user reading this thread at some future date should ensure
that (at a minimum) if they emerge -C anything at all that at least
it's not part of @system. emerge should warn of this but it's best to
do a little study before pushing the enter key.

Cheers,
Mark




It is good that you explained that more. I thought about the same thing but
thought maybe I was missing something that was mentioned earlier in another
message.

I wouldn't always count on portage warning before removing a system package
tho. I tested this by trying to remove python and portage said nothing it
doesn't say on any other package even one in the world file. Future users
may want to ask first either here or on the forums before removing something
that may be questionable.

It may not be a bad idea for a thread with packages that should never be
removed. Things such as gcc, python, baselayout etc. Maybe a user would
find that and at least have a general guide. I also think it would be a
good idea to have the same on the forums as a "sticky" thread that the mods
can edit from time to time.

Dale


Dale,
The last thing I want to do is cause anyone any trouble. From that
point it's easier to just stay quiet all the time and let others more
experienced than myself answer all the questions. However I don't
really want to act that way - taking and never giving.

I like your idea about lists of packages that should never be
removed. Personally I think a doc doc page somewhere in the
install/maintenance doc group would be good but it would need to be
well maintained. Understanding the absolute minimum number of things
that are required to use emerge and get a package built would be a
good doc, if it doesn't exist somewhere already.

Personally I'm never 100% sure about anything that's not an
application package I installed myself and is sitting in the world
file. I suspect others - possibly you included - have similar fears at
times.

Cheers,
Mark




I know there are times when I don't say anything because I am unsure
about the answer. If I do say something, I usually say I'm not sure or
something to that effect. Like you, I never want to make matters worse
than they already are for someone. I wouldn't want someone to do me
that way either.


I mentioned this on -dev once when this topic came up. Thing is,
portage is not the only package manager being used. Personally I think
portage should be the official package manager and if you chose to use
something else, you should know what not to do to the system. Portage
requires python but I think one of the other package managers uses C or
something. Remove C on my rig, no big deal as far as being able to boot
and re-emerge a package. Do it on a system with some other package
manager and you are in a mess. Point being, it's sort of hard for them
to list them since it depends on what package manager you are using.


There are some packages I installed and still don't know much about.
lol Sort of funny in a way. Most of them "just work" so we don't need
to know much about them.


Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 06-29-2010, 04:58 PM
Mark Knecht
 
Default emerge all but...

On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
<SNIP>

> I mentioned this on -dev once when this topic came up. *Thing is, portage is
> not the only package manager being used.

That's an important point.

> Personally I think portage should
> be the official package manager and if you chose to use something else, you
> should know what not to do to the system.

Unofficially I think it is! ;-)

> Portage requires python but I
> think one of the other package managers uses C or something. *Remove C on my
> rig, no big deal as far as being able to boot and re-emerge a package.

Careful. Can you really emerge gcc without at least one version of gcc
on the system? I didn't think so unless you've got access to a binary
somewhere, such as the install tarball or something like that. Even
that could be a problem. I did some cleanup a few years ago that
removed an old version of gcc and found I couldn't build anything
anymore. Embarrassing!

> Do
> it on a system with some other package manager and you are in a mess. *Point
> being, it's sort of hard for them to list them since it depends on what
> package manager you are using.
>

True, and a more experienced user can use equery, among other tools,
to determine what dependencies a package has. Problem was my previous
answer didn't mention that.

> There are some packages I installed and still don't know much about. *lol
> Sort of funny in a way. *Most of them "just work" so we don't need to know
> much about them.

Actually, for me it's _most_ packages I know NOTHING about. This
machine has XFCE, Gnome and KDE. It has only 38 packages in the world
file and yet emerge -e @world would build 970 packages. That's a LOT
of unknown stuff for a user type like me to know anything about! (Or
honestly, I probably know _NOTHING_ at all about at least 900 of those
packages...)

Cheers,
Mark
 

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