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Old 01-12-2008, 08:11 AM
 
Default Daniel Robbins' come back ?

Daniel Robbins offers to take back Gentoo leadership.
What about it ? Read
http://blog.funtoo.org/2008/01/here-my-offer.html

--
~adj~
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 01-12-2008, 09:31 AM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default Daniel Robbins' come back ?

On Saturday 12 January 2008, alain.didierjean@free.fr wrote:
> Daniel Robbins offers to take back Gentoo leadership.
> What about it ? Read
> http://blog.funtoo.org/2008/01/here-my-offer.html

I've kept very quiet about Gentoo politics for a long time, but Daniel's
blog has promoted me to finally open my mouth and express my views.

Daniel is in a tricky position - he is the legal President of the
Foundation but also has no role in the project in real life.

There is no evidence whatsoever that the Trustees as a group have ever
done a single thing for Gentoo in three years. The fundamental
responsibility of Trustees is to ensure that legal paperwork is
properly filed, they did not even do this. Grant Goodyear is getting
some things done but he's doing it as one person. Chris is in a similar
position. But the Trustees, as a body with specific duties, simply does
not exist in any reasonable definition of Trustees.

I used to read -dev and various council mailing lists a long time ago as
I wanted to keep up to date with these things as a user. I unsubscribed
because I couldn't stand the constant bickering going on there. OSS
projects always have their laundry out in the public eye and some
conflict is always present but Gentoo management manages to take this
to a whole new level - from on outsider's point of view, the bickering
is done for the sake of bickering, and it does not result in decisions
being made or solutions found.

Ciaran Mcreesh - I am very specifically looking at you here.

The council - I'm not up to date on that aspect so can't comment.

When I read about current Gentoo politics I can't help but constantly
think of just one word:

Stampede.


--
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 01-12-2008, 11:08 AM
Jil Larner
 
Default Daniel Robbins' come back ?

Well, it's like if I am opening my eyes. I never looked at what the
foundation was supposed to do. For a couple of years I've been using
gentoo, I never get any political announcement, maybe because I didn't
look at the right place, or maybe there was no. I mean that except the
Gentoo's Philosophy and the Gentoo's Social Contract, I didn't see
politic, for my eyes were probably closed.
It doesn't mean I didn't enjoyed gentoo, its power, its flexibility, its
community. But I certainly missed something. There are so many ways to
communicate (lists, IRC, boards, wikis, project pages, etc.) that I must
admit I'm sometime lost.

Today, I learn we're in trouble. Good. What trouble ? What's happening ?
Why through the words of Daniel Robbins, I feel some fear ? I feel he
foresees a dead end and offers an opportunity to change before it is too
late. Once more, to quote Matrix, "the problem is choice". In Free
Software, there are often choices where the community can get involved
in and it makes our strength. The problem is, and is not, legal papers.
Because, IMO, legal papers are the visible part of an Iceberg. Could
someone tell me what *really* is the crisis ? If people did not do what
they were supposed to do : what should they have done ?

Thanks.

Alan McKinnon a crit :
> On Saturday 12 January 2008, alain.didierjean@free.fr wrote:
>> Daniel Robbins offers to take back Gentoo leadership.
>> What about it ? Read
>> http://blog.funtoo.org/2008/01/here-my-offer.html
>
> I've kept very quiet about Gentoo politics for a long time, but Daniel's
> blog has promoted me to finally open my mouth and express my views.
>
> Daniel is in a tricky position - he is the legal President of the
> Foundation but also has no role in the project in real life.
>
> There is no evidence whatsoever that the Trustees as a group have ever
> done a single thing for Gentoo in three years. The fundamental
> responsibility of Trustees is to ensure that legal paperwork is
> properly filed, they did not even do this. Grant Goodyear is getting
> some things done but he's doing it as one person. Chris is in a similar
> position. But the Trustees, as a body with specific duties, simply does
> not exist in any reasonable definition of Trustees.
>
> I used to read -dev and various council mailing lists a long time ago as
> I wanted to keep up to date with these things as a user. I unsubscribed
> because I couldn't stand the constant bickering going on there. OSS
> projects always have their laundry out in the public eye and some
> conflict is always present but Gentoo management manages to take this
> to a whole new level - from on outsider's point of view, the bickering
> is done for the sake of bickering, and it does not result in decisions
> being made or solutions found.
>
> Ciaran Mcreesh - I am very specifically looking at you here.
>
> The council - I'm not up to date on that aspect so can't comment.
>
> When I read about current Gentoo politics I can't help but constantly
> think of just one word:
>
> Stampede.
>
>
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 01-12-2008, 11:55 AM
Mick
 
Default Daniel Robbins' come back ?

On Saturday 12 January 2008, Jil Larner wrote:
> Well, it's like if I am opening my eyes. I never looked at what the
> foundation was supposed to do. For a couple of years I've been using
> gentoo, I never get any political announcement, maybe because I didn't
> look at the right place, or maybe there was no. I mean that except the
> Gentoo's Philosophy and the Gentoo's Social Contract, I didn't see
> politic, for my eyes were probably closed.
> It doesn't mean I didn't enjoyed gentoo, its power, its flexibility, its
> community. But I certainly missed something. There are so many ways to
> communicate (lists, IRC, boards, wikis, project pages, etc.) that I must
> admit I'm sometime lost.
>
> Today, I learn we're in trouble. Good. What trouble ? What's happening ?
> Why through the words of Daniel Robbins, I feel some fear ? I feel he
> foresees a dead end and offers an opportunity to change before it is too
> late. Once more, to quote Matrix, "the problem is choice". In Free
> Software, there are often choices where the community can get involved
> in and it makes our strength. The problem is, and is not, legal papers.
> Because, IMO, legal papers are the visible part of an Iceberg. Could
> someone tell me what *really* is the crisis ? If people did not do what
> they were supposed to do : what should they have done ?
>
> Thanks.

I am equally agnostic of Gentoo management politics, albeit grateful that
people volunteer their time and effort to keep it going. From the little
exposure that I have had to it all it seems to me that Alan's views ring
depressingly true. I read Daniel's blog and cannot disagree with what he
suggests - it makes common sense that users views and desires should
determine Gentoo's direction, but I have not read between the lines to see
how might his proposals lead to directions that I would not readily agree
with. See this excerpt of his below from OSNews.com in 2002:

"I very much want to find a way to turn the Gentoo Linux project into a
profitable enterprise. My main motivation in wanting to do this is so I can
stop living from paycheck to paycheck and focus my professional efforts
exclusively on Gentoo Linux development. Many of our developers would like to
do the same thing"

(I am not critising this statement of his; after all I would very much like to
find myself a sustainable way of being able to do what I like - without
having to spend the biggest part of my day in my current job.)

Giving a free hand to any single person is not safe in my humble view,
especially if that person is employed by Microsoft - I will find hard to rest
assured that there will be no conflict of interest. On the other hand it
seems that Gentoo desperately needs *mature* leadership, which can fulfill
some rather significant responsibilities. From what I read the current
Gentoo administration and management setup does not seem to be able to behave
with the professionalism required to achieve that. This makes me anxious for
the future of Gentoo.

Just my 2c's.
--
Regards,
Mick
 
Old 01-12-2008, 12:34 PM
Dale
 
Default Daniel Robbins' come back ?

Mick wrote:
> On Saturday 12 January 2008, Jil Larner wrote:
>
>> Well, it's like if I am opening my eyes. I never looked at what the
>> foundation was supposed to do. For a couple of years I've been using
>> gentoo, I never get any political announcement, maybe because I didn't
>> look at the right place, or maybe there was no. I mean that except the
>> Gentoo's Philosophy and the Gentoo's Social Contract, I didn't see
>> politic, for my eyes were probably closed.
>> It doesn't mean I didn't enjoyed gentoo, its power, its flexibility, its
>> community. But I certainly missed something. There are so many ways to
>> communicate (lists, IRC, boards, wikis, project pages, etc.) that I must
>> admit I'm sometime lost.
>>
>> Today, I learn we're in trouble. Good. What trouble ? What's happening ?
>> Why through the words of Daniel Robbins, I feel some fear ? I feel he
>> foresees a dead end and offers an opportunity to change before it is too
>> late. Once more, to quote Matrix, "the problem is choice". In Free
>> Software, there are often choices where the community can get involved
>> in and it makes our strength. The problem is, and is not, legal papers.
>> Because, IMO, legal papers are the visible part of an Iceberg. Could
>> someone tell me what *really* is the crisis ? If people did not do what
>> they were supposed to do : what should they have done ?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>
> I am equally agnostic of Gentoo management politics, albeit grateful that
> people volunteer their time and effort to keep it going. From the little
> exposure that I have had to it all it seems to me that Alan's views ring
> depressingly true. I read Daniel's blog and cannot disagree with what he
> suggests - it makes common sense that users views and desires should
> determine Gentoo's direction, but I have not read between the lines to see
> how might his proposals lead to directions that I would not readily agree
> with. See this excerpt of his below from OSNews.com in 2002:
>
> "I very much want to find a way to turn the Gentoo Linux project into a
> profitable enterprise. My main motivation in wanting to do this is so I can
> stop living from paycheck to paycheck and focus my professional efforts
> exclusively on Gentoo Linux development. Many of our developers would like to
> do the same thing"
>
> (I am not critising this statement of his; after all I would very much like to
> find myself a sustainable way of being able to do what I like - without
> having to spend the biggest part of my day in my current job.)
>
> Giving a free hand to any single person is not safe in my humble view,
> especially if that person is employed by Microsoft - I will find hard to rest
> assured that there will be no conflict of interest. On the other hand it
> seems that Gentoo desperately needs *mature* leadership, which can fulfill
> some rather significant responsibilities. From what I read the current
> Gentoo administration and management setup does not seem to be able to behave
> with the professionalism required to achieve that. This makes me anxious for
> the future of Gentoo.
>
> Just my 2c's.
>

I have been using Gentoo for about 4 or 5 years now. I to think Gentoo
has well, lost its way. It seems like a bunch of teenagers is running
it sometimes. They decide something then go back a few steps when they
don't like the results. Proctors come to mind on that. Users seems to
be the last thing on the higher ups mind. That is not good.

I love my Gentoo but I would like to see someone step up and get some
things done and some decisions made, even those we may never know about.

I just don't want to see Gentoo fall into the abyss.

Dale

:-) :-)
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 01-12-2008, 04:07 PM
Richard Marzan
 
Default Daniel Robbins' come back ?

On Sat, 2008-01-12 at 07:34 -0600, Dale wrote:
> Mick wrote:
> > On Saturday 12 January 2008, Jil Larner wrote:
> >
> >> Well, it's like if I am opening my eyes. I never looked at what the
> >> foundation was supposed to do. For a couple of years I've been using
> >> gentoo, I never get any political announcement, maybe because I didn't
> >> look at the right place, or maybe there was no. I mean that except the
> >> Gentoo's Philosophy and the Gentoo's Social Contract, I didn't see
> >> politic, for my eyes were probably closed.
> >> It doesn't mean I didn't enjoyed gentoo, its power, its flexibility, its
> >> community. But I certainly missed something. There are so many ways to
> >> communicate (lists, IRC, boards, wikis, project pages, etc.) that I must
> >> admit I'm sometime lost.
> >>
> >> Today, I learn we're in trouble. Good. What trouble ? What's happening ?
> >> Why through the words of Daniel Robbins, I feel some fear ? I feel he
> >> foresees a dead end and offers an opportunity to change before it is too
> >> late. Once more, to quote Matrix, "the problem is choice". In Free
> >> Software, there are often choices where the community can get involved
> >> in and it makes our strength. The problem is, and is not, legal papers.
> >> Because, IMO, legal papers are the visible part of an Iceberg. Could
> >> someone tell me what *really* is the crisis ? If people did not do what
> >> they were supposed to do : what should they have done ?
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >
> > I am equally agnostic of Gentoo management politics, albeit grateful that
> > people volunteer their time and effort to keep it going. From the little
> > exposure that I have had to it all it seems to me that Alan's views ring
> > depressingly true. I read Daniel's blog and cannot disagree with what he
> > suggests - it makes common sense that users views and desires should
> > determine Gentoo's direction, but I have not read between the lines to see
> > how might his proposals lead to directions that I would not readily agree
> > with. See this excerpt of his below from OSNews.com in 2002:
> >
> > "I very much want to find a way to turn the Gentoo Linux project into a
> > profitable enterprise. My main motivation in wanting to do this is so I can
> > stop living from paycheck to paycheck and focus my professional efforts
> > exclusively on Gentoo Linux development. Many of our developers would like to
> > do the same thing"
> >
> > (I am not critising this statement of his; after all I would very much like to
> > find myself a sustainable way of being able to do what I like - without
> > having to spend the biggest part of my day in my current job.)
> >
> > Giving a free hand to any single person is not safe in my humble view,
> > especially if that person is employed by Microsoft - I will find hard to rest
> > assured that there will be no conflict of interest. On the other hand it
> > seems that Gentoo desperately needs *mature* leadership, which can fulfill
> > some rather significant responsibilities. From what I read the current
> > Gentoo administration and management setup does not seem to be able to behave
> > with the professionalism required to achieve that. This makes me anxious for
> > the future of Gentoo.
> >
> > Just my 2c's.
> >
>
> I have been using Gentoo for about 4 or 5 years now. I to think Gentoo
> has well, lost its way. It seems like a bunch of teenagers is running
> it sometimes. They decide something then go back a few steps when they
> don't like the results. Proctors come to mind on that. Users seems to
> be the last thing on the higher ups mind. That is not good.
>
> I love my Gentoo but I would like to see someone step up and get some
> things done and some decisions made, even those we may never know about.
>
> I just don't want to see Gentoo fall into the abyss.
>
> Dale
>
> :-) :-)



Although he works for Microsoft, Daniel is the one who created this
project. He has been a developer of several operating systems, including
Freebsd. I would, as a user, like for him to come back to the project,
if it means gentoo going back to the old way. On the other hand, his
major decisions with regard to gentoo should be voted on by the
developer/user community. I don't want gentoo to become another SuSE. I
don't want him to insidiously harm gentoo with the immunity of acting
president. Everything should be done in the open. There should be some
sort of constitution which protects gentoo from losing certain
principles or ethics. One of which is that it will always be free of
charge; at least from the gentoo foundation. He has to be, as acting
president, bound to a code of ethics or rules decided by the community.
It is clear that he cares for this project. He wants to come back but,
is he willing to come back as a leader under our conditions?

--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 01-12-2008, 04:11 PM
Δημήτριος Ροπόκης
 
Default Daniel Robbins' come back ?

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:34:47 +0200, Dale <dalek1967@bellsouth.net> wrote:


Mick wrote:

On Saturday 12 January 2008, Jil Larner wrote:


Well, it's like if I am opening my eyes. I never looked at what the
foundation was supposed to do. For a couple of years I've been using
gentoo, I never get any political announcement, maybe because I didn't
look at the right place, or maybe there was no. I mean that except the
Gentoo's Philosophy and the Gentoo's Social Contract, I didn't see
politic, for my eyes were probably closed...... Could
someone tell me what *really* is the crisis ? If people did not do what
they were supposed to do : what should they have done ?




I love my Gentoo but I would like to see someone step up and get some
things done and some decisions made, even those we may never know about.

I just don't want to see Gentoo fall into the abyss.

Dale

:-) :-)



Dear friends, I 'm Dimitrios Ropokis from Greece, I managed to translate
fet- timetabling and smplayer
to Greek, I do not know an easy way to put fet on gentoo for download, I
am not programmer,
smplayer is ok but now it is out of gentoo, my Toshiba laptop had 20 hours
to compile open-office 2.3.1,
I can not install Option Globetrotter Umts-Data card,even to make Greek
look good took a week,
but thanks to people like u, I am pleased for what I am doing, I help
people to use linux,

because its a choice. Choice to communicate,to ask help and give help.
Most of it is knowledge. This is critical. The knowledge base of
opensource is what next generations need.

And it is to your hands. Gentoo is too strong!!
Thank you!

--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 01-12-2008, 04:22 PM
Renat Golubchyk
 
Default Daniel Robbins' come back ?

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:07:39 -0500 Richard Marzan
<richardmarzan@optonline.net> wrote:
> Although he works for Microsoft, Daniel is the one who created this
> project.

He doesn't work for Microsoft any longer. Check Wikipedia or Google for
relevant news.


Cheers,
Renat

--
Probleme kann man niemals mit derselben Denkweise loesen,
durch die sie entstanden sind.
(Einstein)
 
Old 01-12-2008, 04:49 PM
Hal Martin
 
Default Daniel Robbins' come back ?

He states on his blog that he currently works for E*Trade, a company
specializing in electronic ticker tape services for individuals and
corporations.


-Hal


Renat Golubchyk wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:07:39 -0500 Richard Marzan
> <richardmarzan@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> Although he works for Microsoft, Daniel is the one who created this
>> project.
>>
>
> He doesn't work for Microsoft any longer. Check Wikipedia or Google for
> relevant news.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Renat
>
>

--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 01-12-2008, 05:13 PM
Richard Marzan
 
Default Daniel Robbins' come back ?

On Sat, 2008-01-12 at 18:22 +0100, Renat Golubchyk wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:07:39 -0500 Richard Marzan
> <richardmarzan@optonline.net> wrote:
> > Although he works for Microsoft, Daniel is the one who created this
> > project.
>
> He doesn't work for Microsoft any longer. Check Wikipedia or Google for
> relevant news.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Renat
>

Even more of a reason to bring him back!

--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 

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