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Old 03-07-2010, 10:54 PM
Dale
 
Default Multiple Update Issues - what order should things be done?

Alan McKinnon wrote:

You are going to have to switch sometime, the day will come when baselayout-2
goes stable. Seeing as you plan a large update anyway, which will have
downtime, this would be an ideal opportunity.




Is baselayout 2 in the tarball yet? This would be a good time for me to
reinstall from scratch if it is.


Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 03-07-2010, 11:55 PM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default Multiple Update Issues - what order should things be done?

On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 17:54:31 -0600, Dale wrote:

> > You are going to have to switch sometime, the day will come when
> > baselayout-2 goes stable. Seeing as you plan a large update anyway,
> > which will have downtime, this would be an ideal opportunity.

> Is baselayout 2 in the tarball yet?

Which tarball? Stage 3? Those are always based on stable.

This would be a good time for me
> to reinstall from scratch if it is.

There's no need to reinstall. All you have to be careful of when
switching to openrc is that you update all the config files before you
reboot. Provided you read the upgrade guide, you shouldn't have any
problems.


--
Neil Bothwick

All generalizations are false, including this one.
 
Old 03-08-2010, 12:10 AM
Dale
 
Default Multiple Update Issues - what order should things be done?

Neil Bothwick wrote:

On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 17:54:31 -0600, Dale wrote:



You are going to have to switch sometime, the day will come when
baselayout-2 goes stable. Seeing as you plan a large update anyway,
which will have downtime, this would be an ideal opportunity.



Is baselayout 2 in the tarball yet?


Which tarball? Stage 3? Those are always based on stable.

This would be a good time for me


to reinstall from scratch if it is.


There's no need to reinstall. All you have to be careful of when
switching to openrc is that you update all the config files before you
reboot. Provided you read the upgrade guide, you shouldn't have any
problems.




I figured they were based on stable but was hopeful they may have one
that was already converted over.


I wasn't going to reinstall just because of the update. I was just
wanting to reinstall and get a clean start. I been thinking about doing
this a while anyway. Just get rid of a little "bit rot". lol I may
just wait until they make it stable.


Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 03-08-2010, 11:44 AM
Tanstaafl
 
Default Multiple Update Issues - what order should things be done?

On 2010-03-07 1:17 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Saturday 06 March 2010 20:39:05 Tanstaafl wrote:
>> Baselayout2 is still not stable, so, yes, I'm still on baselayout1,
>> and now you've gone and made me nervous again.
>>
>> Are you suggesting I should already be using it??

> You are going to have to switch sometime, the day will come when
> baselayout-2 goes stable.

Any idea how far away this might be? Are we talking a year or more?

> Seeing as you plan a large update anyway, which will have downtime,
> this would be an ideal opportunity.

Well, I here you, but I'm of the old school, and for production systems,
prefer not to change critical system stuff like this unless/until it
goes stable.

> However, the update is deep and you will be marking a lot of things
> unstable if you do. On a production machine you might not want to do
> that. Only you can say if it's a step you are willing to take. On
> the plus side, baselayout-1 will still work for a very long time to
> come.

Ok, good, in that case I'll wait, because we are planning on rolling out
a new server sometime in the next year or two, and we'll be installing
from scratch.

> When the time to change comes around, set aside an hour or two for
> the job. It's not a complex change, but many files need to be
> updated, there's all sorts of things in /etc/rc.conf and /etc/conf.d
> that must be re-organized and you will want to double check all
> affected packages.
>
> Like I said, it's not complex, and it won't cause you to meet your
> maker. Everything is well documented, but it is lengthy and tedious
> and you want to finish it all in one sitting - if for no other reason
> than if you come back to it later, you won't remember how far you got
> :-)

Gotcha... I'm feeling much better now...

>> Ok, where is the best place to go to start reading/learning about
>> how to prep for it?

> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/openrc-migration.xml

Ok, I'd already found that, so thanks for confirming I'm in the right
place. And thanks again for all the helpful comments...

--

Charles
 
Old 03-08-2010, 12:05 PM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default Multiple Update Issues - what order should things be done?

On Monday 08 March 2010 14:44:13 Tanstaafl wrote:
> On 2010-03-07 1:17 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On Saturday 06 March 2010 20:39:05 Tanstaafl wrote:
> >> Baselayout2 is still not stable, so, yes, I'm still on baselayout1,
> >> and now you've gone and made me nervous again.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Are you suggesting I should already be using it??
> >
> > You are going to have to switch sometime, the day will come when
> > baselayout-2 goes stable.
>
> Any idea how far away this might be? Are we talking a year or more?

It feels like baselayout-2 and openrc have been in ~arch for a year or more,
so there's no telling when it will move to stable. I haven't seen any
indication from the dev either. In other words, only that dev knows what his
plans are.


--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
 
Old 03-08-2010, 05:25 PM
Tanstaafl
 
Default Multiple Update Issues - what order should things be done?

On 2010-03-08 8:05 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> It feels like baselayout-2 and openrc have been in ~arch for a year
> or more, so there's no telling when it will move to stable. I haven't
> seen any indication from the dev either. In other words, only that
> dev knows what his plans are.

As always... thanks...

Almost forgot - are there any substantive advantages to moving to it,
other than just getting it done now so you don't have to do it later?

--

Charles
 
Old 03-08-2010, 06:45 PM
Neil Walker
 
Default Multiple Update Issues - what order should things be done?

On 08/03/10 18:25, Tanstaafl wrote:

> Almost forgot - are there any substantive advantages to moving to it,
> other than just getting it done now so you don't have to do it later?
>

Let me turn that around. I decided to switch to baselayout-2/openrc this
morning on this machine. It took around 2 minutes, was totally painless
and I have not discovered a disadvantage all day.


Be lucky,

Neil
http://www.neiljw.com/
 
Old 03-08-2010, 07:10 PM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default Multiple Update Issues - what order should things be done?

On Monday 08 March 2010 20:25:25 Tanstaafl wrote:
> On 2010-03-08 8:05 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > It feels like baselayout-2 and openrc have been in ~arch for a year
> > or more, so there's no telling when it will move to stable. I haven't
> > seen any indication from the dev either. In other words, only that
> > dev knows what his plans are.
>
> As always... thanks...
>
> Almost forgot - are there any substantive advantages to moving to it,
> other than just getting it done now so you don't have to do it later?


baselayout-a/openrc is New! Shiny! Cool! Bleeding Edge new stuff! and you get
brownie points for running the latest greatest software. Plus, if it breaks
you get to fix both pieces and garner even more brownie points.

That's not a joke, many people run ~arch for that reason :-)

On the serious side, baselayout-1 is a hodgepodge of cruft accumulated over
the years, it only works well on Linux and requires bash. The various configs
are scattered around in a way that can only be documented as "the standard is
whatever baselayout is doing today". In brief, this is probably the second
worst thing it could possibly be. First place would be "nothing whatsoever"

baselayout-2 is an effort to have a base layout that is sane, portable, works
on other OSes, is not tied to bash and/or portage (neither of which are
guaranteed) and is written in portable C. So all-round, the new one is the
better solution for new installs.

However, in your case, I feel that "it ain't broke, don't fix it!" would
prevail.


--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
 
Old 03-08-2010, 07:39 PM
Dale
 
Default Multiple Update Issues - what order should things be done?

Alan McKinnon wrote:

However, in your case, I feel that "it ain't broke, don't fix it!" would
prevail.





Or in my case, if it ain't broke and I try to fix it, it will certainly
be broke. lol I'm waiting on the first tarball and just do a fresh
install. It's been a while since I did a fresh install anyway. Not
only am I getting old, I'm getting rusty.


Notice I got the Seamonkey thing at the top fixed? Ain't that cool?

Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 03-08-2010, 07:53 PM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default Multiple Update Issues - what order should things be done?

On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 13:25:25 -0500, Tanstaafl wrote:

> Almost forgot - are there any substantive advantages to moving to it,
> other than just getting it done now so you don't have to do it later?

The configuration is a lot more sensible, so making changes doesn't
involve looking in several places before you find the right one. It also
gives finer control over the boot process.


--
Neil Bothwick

Q-Tip: When an omnipotent alien gives you advice.
 

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