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Old 02-23-2010, 12:09 PM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:48:03 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> http://i50.tinypic.com/15ow2g8.png
>
> All of these under the "GMane" groups are mailing lists, but they
> appear just like Usenet newsgroups. I can't imagine any easier way to
> easily deal with 30+ mailing list subscriptions.

That looks just like my mailboxes do


--
Neil Bothwick

Anything is possible if you don't know what
you are talking about.
 
Old 02-23-2010, 01:59 PM
Nikos Chantziaras
 
Default Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

On 02/23/2010 03:08 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:39:48 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

I am currently "subscribed" to 31 mailing lists on GMane. I don't even
want to imagine what would happen if I would receive email from all of
them (and 90% of the posts would not interest me anyway, so why recieve
them in the first place?) It's just not practical. A Usenet-like
front-end is the perfect solution here; a mailing list is very similar
to a Usenet newsgroup and that's why this approach is the most
practical one. And even if I were subscribed to only one list, it
would still be the best way to access it; even though the traffic is
much lower when compared to 31 lists, but it's still high enough to get
annoying with something landing on your inbox every 10 minutes or so,
even stuff you don't intend to read. With Usenet, you only get what
you're interested in, and you get it in a way that is very easy to
access and browse though.


With the downside being that the process is slower, as you have to
download each message or thread as you want to read it. Contrast this
with having email delivered whether you are reading it or not and being
filtered at the moment of arrival so it is instantly available, sorted
into folders, when you start up your client. However, this convenience
uses more bandwidth, so if that is worth more to you than your time, using
Usenet for selective reading does make sense.


No, each message gets downloaded in under 1 second; it immediately
appears when you click on it. It's blindingly fast. No surprise
though, since it's just text. However, downloading thousands of
messages per day that I don't intent to read is a waste of bandwidth.
It's not so much about time, it's about volume.


You and I do the same thing in the end. The difference is that you
waste bandwidth, need to set up filters every time you subscribe to a
new list, need to unsubscribe when you don't want to receive email
anymore, need hard disk space to store all the downloaded messages,
don't have access to messages from the time you weren't subscribed yet,
and probably more I can't think of right now.


So in the end, we end up doing the same thing, by I do it in a saner way
that was designed to do exactly that. It appears it only has pros
and no cons, so I don't see a reason to use email instead.
 
Old 02-23-2010, 02:15 PM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:59:33 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> You and I do the same thing in the end. The difference is that you
> waste bandwidth, need to set up filters every time you subscribe to a
> new list

Which takes about ten seconds usually.

>, need to unsubscribe when you don't want to receive email
> anymore,

Which takes about half that time, and both of these are infrequent
occurrences. For lists that I had only a transient interest in, I would
look at usenet versions.

> need hard disk space to store all the downloaded messages,
> don't have access to messages from the time you weren't subscribed yet,

No, but I do have access to Google

> So in the end, we end up doing the same thing, by I do it in a saner
> way that was designed to do exactly that.

No, you do it in a different way that suits your needs. That doesn't make
you right and people with other needs wrong. It just illustrates the
benefits of choice. I did not insult your choice, why assume that you
know better than me what I need?

> It appears it only has
> pros and no cons, so I don't see a reason to use email instead.

How do you read messages without an Internet connection?

Everything has pros and cons.


--
Neil Bothwick

Walk softly and carry a fully charged phazer.
 
Old 02-23-2010, 02:45 PM
Grant Edwards
 
Default Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

On 2010-02-23, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de> wrote:
> On 02/23/2010 01:39 PM, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> On 02/23/2010 12:26 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>
>>> Why are you passing the mail through a conversion gateway only
>>> to read it in a mail client? Wouldn't subscribing directly be
>>> even more simple?
>>
>> No, because then I would get all the mail in my inbox and I
>> would be the one responsible for filtering it; a total waste
>> on bandwidth and my time. GMane does that for me instead.
>
> Just to make my point more clear:
>
> http://i50.tinypic.com/15ow2g8.png
>
> All of these under the "GMane" groups are mailing lists, but they appear
> just like Usenet newsgroups. I can't imagine any easier way to easily
> deal with 30+ mailing list subscriptions.

I too use Gmane to read all mailing lists, but I use a
dedicated news client (slrn) instead of a combined e-mail/news
client. I definitely don't want all those e-mailes coming
through my in-box where _I've_ got to filter, sort, and archive
them. I'd much rather let gmane handle that.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! BARBARA STANWYCK makes
at me nervous!!
visi.com
 
Old 02-23-2010, 02:48 PM
Grant Edwards
 
Default Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

On 2010-02-23, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

> With the downside being that the process is slower, as you
> have to download each message or thread as you want to read
> it. Contrast this with having email delivered whether you are
> reading it or not and being filtered at the moment of arrival
> so it is instantly available, sorted into folders, when you
> start up your client.

I get the impression you always read the mailing lists on a
single machine? I read Gmane's "lists" from 4-5 different
machines and locations. Duplicating all that mail locally on
all those machines would be a pain.

> However, this convenience uses more bandwidth, so if that is
> worth more to you than your time, using Usenet for selective
> reading does make sense.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Hello... IRON
at CURTAIN? Send over a
visi.com SAUSAGE PIZZA! World War
III? No thanks!
 
Old 02-23-2010, 03:15 PM
Paul Hartman
 
Default Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 11:42 PM, Stroller
<stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
> Some comments were made recently about KDE4, where it was advised "don't try
> using just Kmail under a different window manager - use the whole KDE
> environment, but not single apps. Use something else instead of Kmail".
>
> I kept my gob somewhat shut at that time, because I've been using Knode for
> a long time on my headless server. I ssh in from my Mac and open Knode in
> X11.
>
> I guess Usenet isn't so popular these days, and I have never been able to
> find a Mac native client that I'm happy with.
>
> I like Knode's simple 3-pane layout. Knode has improved visually with the
> KDE4 release, but the much debated KDE4 dependencies thing.
>
> It has only just occurred to me today to ask if there's an alternative that
> looks & acts just the same, but which isn't part of the whole KDE4
> environment.
>
> Any suggestions?

For textual usenet i use mail-client/mozilla-thunderbird. For binary
usenet I use net-nntp/bnr2.
 
Old 02-23-2010, 03:25 PM
Nikos Chantziaras
 
Default Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

On 02/23/2010 05:15 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:59:33 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:


You and I do the same thing in the end. The difference is that you
waste bandwidth, need to set up filters every time you subscribe to a
new list


Which takes about ten seconds usually.


10 is more than 0



, need to unsubscribe when you don't want to receive email
anymore,


Which takes about half that time, and both of these are infrequent
occurrences. For lists that I had only a transient interest in, I would
look at usenet versions.


And when later you want to subscribe again...



need hard disk space to store all the downloaded messages,
don't have access to messages from the time you weren't subscribed yet,


No, but I do have access to Google


Yes, but this requires to go to Google. I have the messages right there
in front of me.




So in the end, we end up doing the same thing, by I do it in a saner
way that was designed to do exactly that.


No, you do it in a different way that suits your needs. That doesn't make
you right and people with other needs wrong. It just illustrates the
benefits of choice. I did not insult your choice, why assume that you
know better than me what I need?


No, that wasn't my intention. All I'm saying in the end is that people
stick to the ways they are used to do their tasks. There might be
better options out there, but it requires getting used to those new
options so they usually don't bother. I just though I'd mention the
stuff here so people actually know the option exists and has saved me
from quite some annoyances I had to deal with in the past.




It appears it only has
pros and no cons, so I don't see a reason to use email instead.


How do you read messages without an Internet connection?

Everything has pros and cons.


You got me with that one Just because I don't have this problem
doesn't mean no else does either.
 
Old 02-23-2010, 03:52 PM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:48:35 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:

> I get the impression you always read the mailing lists on a
> single machine? I read Gmane's "lists" from 4-5 different
> machines and locations. Duplicating all that mail locally on
> all those machines would be a pain.

No, I read them from a number of machines but using a single server that
handles all the filtering too.


--
Neil Bothwick

Theory is when you know everything, but nothing works.
Reality is when everything works, but you don't know why.
However, usually theory and reality are mixed together :
Nothing works, and nobody knows why not.
 
Old 02-23-2010, 04:42 PM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:25:45 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> > Which takes about ten seconds usually.
>
> 10 is more than 0

Not for large values of 0

> >> , need to unsubscribe when you don't want to receive email
> >> anymore,
> >
> > Which takes about half that time, and both of these are infrequent
> > occurrences. For lists that I had only a transient interest in, I
> > would look at usenet versions.
>
> And when later you want to subscribe again...

I'm not that indecisive... at least, I don't think I am ;-)

> >> need hard disk space to store all the downloaded messages,
> >> don't have access to messages from the time you weren't subscribed
> >> yet,
> >
> > No, but I do have access to Google
>
> Yes, but this requires to go to Google. I have the messages right
> there in front of me.

What, all of them? You still need to search for old messages and if they
predate your subscribing you are only searching for specific information,
not particular threads. Or are you referring to backtracking a thread you
joined midway through? For that, online archives are useful.

> No, that wasn't my intention. All I'm saying in the end is that people
> stick to the ways they are used to do their tasks. There might be
> better options out there, but it requires getting used to those new
> options so they usually don't bother. I just though I'd mention the
> stuff here so people actually know the option exists and has saved me
> from quite some annoyances I had to deal with in the past.

Fair enough.

> > How do you read messages without an Internet connection?
> >
> > Everything has pros and cons.
>
> You got me with that one Just because I don't have this problem
> doesn't mean no else does either.

You are permanently wired to the Internet? Don't you ever go out? :P


--
Neil Bothwick

Windows to CPU: Don't rush me, don't rush me...
 
Old 02-23-2010, 05:33 PM
Grant Edwards
 
Default Graphical usenet client - alternative to Knode

On 2010-02-23, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:48:35 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> I get the impression you always read the mailing lists on a
>> single machine? I read Gmane's "lists" from 4-5 different
>> machines and locations. Duplicating all that mail locally on
>> all those machines would be a pain.
>
> No, I read them from a number of machines but using a single
> server that handles all the filtering too.

Same here -- the only difference between the two approaches is
who's administering the server. You handle it yourself, I let
gmane do it.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! Of course, you
at UNDERSTAND about the PLAIDS
visi.com in the SPIN CYCLE --
 

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