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Old 02-12-2010, 02:14 PM
"Zeerak Waseem"
 
Default Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:01:22 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann
<volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:



On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Zeerak Waseem wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:53:04 +0100, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk>

wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 05:19:43 +0100, Zeerak Waseem wrote:
>> But I do find it silly, that the various applications that aren't
>> dependent of the DE, to require a dependency of the DE. It just seems
>> a bit backwards to me :-) I simply don't understand.
>
> That just shows that they are still partially dependent on the DE,
KMail
> also needs various KDE libraries. KDE was designed as a cohesive DE,
not

> just a bunch of applications with a common look and feel. KDE apps are
> intended to be run on a KDE desktop, anything else is a nice bonus.

Indeed, and it is a noble pursuit.
But from a marketing aspect, it would make more sense to have things
that

aren't -vital- for the app, unlike kde-libs in this case, to be soft (is
this the correct term?) dependencies.
Both aspects could be satisfied by having symantic-desktop as an
optional

dep. It's not a vital function for kmail to be able to tag and index all
the files on the computer (which is what the symantic-desktop does if I
understand correctly), it's a nifty thing for KDE users, and soon
probably

Gnome users as well, but for anyone else, it's a nifty thing -if- they
feel the need for it. Much like most other bits of software :-)

In the end there isn't a right or wrong, but just a standpoint. Some
don't

mind the bloat (we can agree that it's bloat if you're just going to
disable the function as soon as it's been installed, right?) and don't
consider it to be the slightest bit akin to bloat, whilst to others it's
an unnecessary feature forced on them (mainly thinking of the people not
using kde, but also those kde-users that just disable it) and thus
becomes

bloat.


and luckily for you, there are a lot of 'soft' dependencies. kmail does
not

force you to install konqueror. It does not force you to install plasma-
desktop or systemsettings. It does not force you to install the printing
manager ....



But then the question isn't whether there are a number of soft
dependencies, but in the case of semantic-desktop whether -it- is a soft
dependency. Like previously stated, I don't use kmail, nor do I intend to
(I at least think I mentioned it). This is just my take on the matter of
whether it is truly necessary, or even a good idea to have
symantic-desktop as a hard dependency.
And as stated, this is not in the light of a full blown KDE env, but
mainly in considerations to when you're using another window manager. Be
it icewm, jwm, openbox or whatever. Should something that is an integrated
part of the KDE desktop environment be forced on those that don't use KDE?
Our opinions on this matter obviously differ, and for that simple reason I
find it interesting to find out -why- you think it's okay that they're
being forced. And simply stating that the devs' decided that it was how it
was done, is pretty much as nonconstructive argument as "dbus is bad
because it's new". I'd like to find out why you seem to disagree, so
please. By all means, enlighten me :-) (I am asking for it after all )


--
Zeerak
 
Old 02-12-2010, 02:56 PM
"Zeerak Waseem"
 
Default Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:46:57 +0100, BRM <bm_witness@yahoo.com> wrote:


----- Original Message ----


From: Zeerak Waseem <zeerak.w@gmail.com>
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:53:04 +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 05:19:43 +0100, Zeerak Waseem wrote:
>> But I do find it silly, that the various applications that aren't
>> dependent of the DE, to require a dependency of the DE. It just seems
>> a bit backwards to me :-) I simply don't understand.
> That just shows that they are still partially dependent on the DE,
KMail
> also needs various KDE libraries. KDE was designed as a cohesive DE,
not

> just a bunch of applications with a common look and feel. KDE apps are
> intended to be run on a KDE desktop, anything else is a nice bonus.
Indeed, and it is a noble pursuit.
But from a marketing aspect, it would make more sense to have things
that aren't
-vital- for the app, unlike kde-libs in this case, to be soft (is this
the

correct term?) dependencies.
Both aspects could be satisfied by having symantic-desktop as an
optional dep.
It's not a vital function for kmail to be able to tag and index all the
files on

the computer (which is what the symantic-desktop does if I understand
correctly), it's a nifty thing for KDE users, and soon probably Gnome
users as
well, but for anyone else, it's a nifty thing -if- they feel the need
for it.

Much like most other bits of software :-)


Obviously you don't understand the reason for the dependency.
It does not exist so that Kmail can index all the files on the system
but for the opposite -
so that Kmail can participate in the search by allowing the system to be
able to search _its_ data.


And, btw, you're not turning it off within Kmail, but at the system - DE
- level.
The application itself will still check to see if it could participate,
only to have nothing turned on to support so then it doesn't do anything.




Right, but then when the DE isn't a DE, but a window manager, a minimal
one, then it's kind of a strange for a function to be forced outside of
the specific DE. Well it seems strange to me anyway.



In the end there isn't a right or wrong, but just a standpoint.


Question: are you a software developer?

Kmail probably has the dependency the way they do b/c it is far easier
to make it one and let the system determine not to support the
functionality
than it is to litter the codebase with "if (symanticDesktopEnabled)..."
code.




An aspiring one, yes. And it probably easier to just make it a hard dep,
however if the quality of their application for anyone -not- using kde.
It's sensible for it being set if you have kde, but if you don't have kde
it just seems very out of place.



Some don't mind
the bloat (we can agree that it's bloat if you're just going to disable
the
function as soon as it's been installed, right?) and don't consider it
to be the
slightest bit akin to bloat, whilst to others it's an unnecessary
feature forced
on them (mainly thinking of the people not using kde, but also those
kde-users

that just disable it) and thus becomes bloat.


No more than it is bloat for gcc to support mmx/sse/sse2/sse3/sse4 when
your processor cannot.


Ben





I hadn't considered that particular thing, but yes, in a sense you're
right. I mean there is difference for a compiler and a mail app, with gcc
you can compile for another system so the it supports things your
processor doesn't support doesn't necessarily mean that you won't need the
support, with a mail app you can... But essentially, if you know you'll
never need to compile for another processor, then yes I'd consider it
bloat.


--
Zeerak
 
Old 02-12-2010, 03:10 PM
BRM
 
Default Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?

----- Original Message ----

> From: Zeerak Waseem <zeerak.w@gmail.com>
> But then the question isn't whether there are a number of soft dependencies, but
> in the case of semantic-desktop whether -it- is a soft dependency. Like
> previously stated, I don't use kmail, nor do I intend to (I at least think I
> mentioned it). This is just my take on the matter of whether it is truly
> necessary, or even a good idea to have symantic-desktop as a hard dependency.

So you are complaining why? Why even install KMail if you are not going to use it?

> And as stated, this is not in the light of a full blown KDE env, but mainly in
> considerations to when you're using another window manager. Be it icewm, jwm,
> openbox or whatever. Should something that is an integrated part of the KDE
> desktop environment be forced on those that don't use KDE?

The KDE devs in general (applications, etc.) with the exception of KOffice, and possibly Amarok, are all targeting their development as an integrated DE meant to be run under KDE.
They have been pretty clear as well that they do not intend the applications to be run stand-alone under other DE's (even Gnome) - that's not officially supported.
And this has been especially clear for KDE4 (see asiego's blog for example).

> Our opinions on this matter obviously differ, and for that simple reason I find
> it interesting to find out -why- you think it's okay that they're being forced.
> And simply stating that the devs' decided that it was how it was done, is pretty
> much as nonconstructive argument as "dbus is bad because it's new". I'd like to
> find out why you seem to disagree, so please. By all means, enlighten me :-) (I
> am asking for it after all )

If you disagree with the devs lack of support for things beyond their requirements, or things that they explicitly have stated they do not support that is your issue.
The fact is the devs are building the application for the target environment - KDE4 - and no other DE (e.g. gnome, icewm, jwm, openbox, etc.).
So expect that dependencies will match what would be expected in that environment if you want to use the application.
Anything else is unreasonable of you as a user.

A simple analogy: The Chevy Malibu part not fitting in the Ford F150 vehicle. Sure, they may perform the same function in the end, but they were designed for completely different vehicles.

Ben
 
Old 02-12-2010, 03:51 PM
Volker Armin Hemmann
 
Default Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?

On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Zeerak Waseem wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:01:22 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann
>
> <volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Zeerak Waseem wrote:
> >> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:53:04 +0100, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk>
> >>
> >> wrote:
> >> > On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 05:19:43 +0100, Zeerak Waseem wrote:
> >> >> But I do find it silly, that the various applications that aren't
> >> >> dependent of the DE, to require a dependency of the DE. It just seems
> >> >> a bit backwards to me :-) I simply don't understand.
> >> >
> >> > That just shows that they are still partially dependent on the DE,
> >>
> >> KMail
> >>
> >> > also needs various KDE libraries. KDE was designed as a cohesive DE,
> >>
> >> not
> >>
> >> > just a bunch of applications with a common look and feel. KDE apps are
> >> > intended to be run on a KDE desktop, anything else is a nice bonus.
> >>
> >> Indeed, and it is a noble pursuit.
> >> But from a marketing aspect, it would make more sense to have things
> >> that
> >> aren't -vital- for the app, unlike kde-libs in this case, to be soft (is
> >> this the correct term?) dependencies.
> >> Both aspects could be satisfied by having symantic-desktop as an
> >> optional
> >> dep. It's not a vital function for kmail to be able to tag and index all
> >> the files on the computer (which is what the symantic-desktop does if I
> >> understand correctly), it's a nifty thing for KDE users, and soon
> >> probably
> >> Gnome users as well, but for anyone else, it's a nifty thing -if- they
> >> feel the need for it. Much like most other bits of software :-)
> >>
> >> In the end there isn't a right or wrong, but just a standpoint. Some
> >> don't
> >> mind the bloat (we can agree that it's bloat if you're just going to
> >> disable the function as soon as it's been installed, right?) and don't
> >> consider it to be the slightest bit akin to bloat, whilst to others it's
> >> an unnecessary feature forced on them (mainly thinking of the people not
> >> using kde, but also those kde-users that just disable it) and thus
> >> becomes
> >> bloat.
> >
> > and luckily for you, there are a lot of 'soft' dependencies. kmail does
> > not
> > force you to install konqueror. It does not force you to install plasma-
> > desktop or systemsettings. It does not force you to install the printing
> > manager ....
>
> But then the question isn't whether there are a number of soft
> dependencies, but in the case of semantic-desktop whether -it- is a soft
> dependency. Like previously stated, I don't use kmail, nor do I intend to
> (I at least think I mentioned it). This is just my take on the matter of
> whether it is truly necessary, or even a good idea to have
> symantic-desktop as a hard dependency.

yes it is a good idea. Because KDE is such a modular beast you can not just
install kmail, konqueror or kate. You always need a bit more for full
functionality. KDE strives to be a COMPLETE, networking, work and data sharing
aware desktop solution.

Semantic-Desktop is a huge part of it.

If you never used nepomuk, you don't even know what you are missing.

> And as stated, this is not in the light of a full blown KDE env, but
> mainly in considerations to when you're using another window manager.

you can use whatever WM you want in KDE. Isn't that nice.

> Be
> it icewm, jwm, openbox or whatever. Should something that is an integrated
> part of the KDE desktop environment be forced on those that don't use KDE?

what are you even talking about?

> Our opinions on this matter obviously differ, and for that simple reason I
> find it interesting to find out -why- you think it's okay that they're
> being forced. And simply stating that the devs' decided that it was how it
> was done, is pretty much as nonconstructive argument as "dbus is bad
> because it's new". I'd like to find out why you seem to disagree, so
> please. By all means, enlighten me :-) (I am asking for it after all )

no, I have the feeling that you are trolling.

But see above. KDE goals is more than just a wm with some apps. That niche is
filled by XFCE. And for being more than just a wm plus an asorted pile of apps,
you need a certain infrastructure shared by the whole environment.

KDE apps use PHONON, so they don't have to deal with the underlying sound
system.
KDE apps use SOLID, so they don't need to care about hardware, hot plugin,
etc.
KDE apps use dbus so they can share code and easily communicate.

KDE apps use NEPOMUK, so they don't need to fiddle with different databases and
concepts when working with information. And 'semanitic-desktop' is more than
just finding a certain picture, textfile, email or link quickly.

When you are displaying a html email, Kmail uses the khtml kpart. Why don't
you cry about that dependency? Who uses html mails anyway?

You might have missed the memo. But today information is more compley than
keeping a tidy tree of directories. And finding information is harder with
gigabytes of data than a couple of floppy disks.

Semantic-desktop can help you with that. A lot. Your calender tells you, that
there is a meeting tomorrow where SUBJECT A is on the agenda. A semantic
desktop aware environment can give you all files concerned with SUBJECT A. All
pictures, all texts, presentations, emails and bookmarks. in a split second.

http://nepomuk.kde.org/discover/user
 
Old 02-12-2010, 04:01 PM
Mike Edenfield
 
Default Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?

On 2/12/2010 10:14 AM, Zeerak Waseem wrote:


But then the question isn't whether there are a number of soft
dependencies, but in the case of semantic-desktop whether -it- is a soft
dependency. Like previously stated, I don't use kmail, nor do I intend
to (I at least think I mentioned it). This is just my take on the matter
of whether it is truly necessary, or even a good idea to have
symantic-desktop as a hard dependency.


No, it's not a soft dependency. Yes, it's a hard
dependency. Yes, it's a good idea. Yes, it's necessary.
No, no amount of pointless whining about "bloat" is going to
change things.


If you want to use KDE-4 applications, you use semantic
desktop. If you don't want to use semantic desktop, you
don't use KDE-4 applications.


Yay for choice.

--Mike
 
Old 02-12-2010, 10:01 PM
"Zeerak Waseem"
 
Default Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:51:01 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann
<volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:



On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Zeerak Waseem wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:01:22 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann

<volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Freitag 12 Februar 2010, Zeerak Waseem wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:53:04 +0100, Neil Bothwick
<neil@digimed.co.uk>

>>
>> wrote:
>> > On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 05:19:43 +0100, Zeerak Waseem wrote:
>> >> But I do find it silly, that the various applications that aren't
>> >> dependent of the DE, to require a dependency of the DE. It just
seems

>> >> a bit backwards to me :-) I simply don't understand.
>> >
>> > That just shows that they are still partially dependent on the DE,
>>
>> KMail
>>
>> > also needs various KDE libraries. KDE was designed as a cohesive
DE,

>>
>> not
>>
>> > just a bunch of applications with a common look and feel. KDE apps
are

>> > intended to be run on a KDE desktop, anything else is a nice bonus.
>>
>> Indeed, and it is a noble pursuit.
>> But from a marketing aspect, it would make more sense to have things
>> that
>> aren't -vital- for the app, unlike kde-libs in this case, to be soft
(is

>> this the correct term?) dependencies.
>> Both aspects could be satisfied by having symantic-desktop as an
>> optional
>> dep. It's not a vital function for kmail to be able to tag and index
all
>> the files on the computer (which is what the symantic-desktop does
if I

>> understand correctly), it's a nifty thing for KDE users, and soon
>> probably
>> Gnome users as well, but for anyone else, it's a nifty thing -if-
they

>> feel the need for it. Much like most other bits of software :-)
>>
>> In the end there isn't a right or wrong, but just a standpoint. Some
>> don't
>> mind the bloat (we can agree that it's bloat if you're just going to
>> disable the function as soon as it's been installed, right?) and
don't
>> consider it to be the slightest bit akin to bloat, whilst to others
it's
>> an unnecessary feature forced on them (mainly thinking of the people
not

>> using kde, but also those kde-users that just disable it) and thus
>> becomes
>> bloat.
>
> and luckily for you, there are a lot of 'soft' dependencies. kmail
does

> not
> force you to install konqueror. It does not force you to install
plasma-
> desktop or systemsettings. It does not force you to install the
printing

> manager ....

But then the question isn't whether there are a number of soft
dependencies, but in the case of semantic-desktop whether -it- is a soft
dependency. Like previously stated, I don't use kmail, nor do I intend
to

(I at least think I mentioned it). This is just my take on the matter of
whether it is truly necessary, or even a good idea to have
symantic-desktop as a hard dependency.


yes it is a good idea. Because KDE is such a modular beast you can not
just

install kmail, konqueror or kate. You always need a bit more for full
functionality. KDE strives to be a COMPLETE, networking, work and data
sharing

aware desktop solution.

Semantic-Desktop is a huge part of it.

If you never used nepomuk, you don't even know what you are missing.


I have tried it, briefly so I won't claim to know all the merits, but it
didn't seem to be a huge addition to my life. To each his own however :-)
I don't know, I just considered flexibility and as much being as far
independent of anything that isn't strictly related to the core functions
of the application.
But again, this is just my take, and the entire development with KDE is
interesting to follow and I'll surely be following this development with a
great interest.



And as stated, this is not in the light of a full blown KDE env, but
mainly in considerations to when you're using another window manager.


you can use whatever WM you want in KDE. Isn't that nice.


Be
it icewm, jwm, openbox or whatever. Should something that is an
integrated
part of the KDE desktop environment be forced on those that don't use
KDE?


what are you even talking about?



Well what I mean is that Semantic-desktop is a part of the KDE DE, right?
So anyone not using the fullblown DE, but simply a few apps is being
forced to install semantic-desktop with various KDE apps.
And sure you can use whatever WM in KDE, but that was never really the
point, at least not how I intended it, pardons if I was too vague about
it. My point was if you only run a window manager and not any DE at all.


Our opinions on this matter obviously differ, and for that simple
reason I

find it interesting to find out -why- you think it's okay that they're
being forced. And simply stating that the devs' decided that it was how
it

was done, is pretty much as nonconstructive argument as "dbus is bad
because it's new". I'd like to find out why you seem to disagree, so
please. By all means, enlighten me :-) (I am asking for it after all )


no, I have the feeling that you are trolling.



Oh, well I'm very sorry that you get that impression, I am actually quite
interested in some arguments for why you consider it to be okay (which are
being provided throughout your post :-)). But I very much apologise for
the misunderstanding. (It would hardly be good sport to start trolling
when I sent out a mail a few hours ago, asking to keep cheekiness to a
bare minimum :-) )


But see above. KDE goals is more than just a wm with some apps. That
niche is
filled by XFCE. And for being more than just a wm plus an asorted pile
of apps,

you need a certain infrastructure shared by the whole environment.

KDE apps use PHONON, so they don't have to deal with the underlying sound
system.
KDE apps use SOLID, so they don't need to care about hardware, hot
plugin,

etc.
KDE apps use dbus so they can share code and easily communicate.

KDE apps use NEPOMUK, so they don't need to fiddle with different
databases and
concepts when working with information. And 'semanitic-desktop' is more
than

just finding a certain picture, textfile, email or link quickly.



Would you care to expand on this? Because I pretty much had the
semantic-desktop thing down to being finding something certain quickly :-)


When you are displaying a html email, Kmail uses the khtml kpart. Why
don't

you cry about that dependency? Who uses html mails anyway?



Plenty of newsletters do, Star wars newsletter, splitreason newsletter,
and I believe sony psp newsletter as well just to name a few, so no I
don't complain about it in the least. It's still very much used.


You might have missed the memo. But today information is more compley
than
keeping a tidy tree of directories. And finding information is harder
with

gigabytes of data than a couple of floppy disks.



Yes, it is harder to find and keep track of files amongst x-hundred GB of
data, the way I see it though, a logical directory tree can help with that.


Semantic-desktop can help you with that. A lot. Your calender tells you,
that

there is a meeting tomorrow where SUBJECT A is on the agenda. A semantic
desktop aware environment can give you all files concerned with SUBJECT
A. All
pictures, all texts, presentations, emails and bookmarks. in a split
second.


http://nepomuk.kde.org/discover/user





Well I'll hand it to you, that is smart. I would argue that much of the
same thing could be accomplished with a logical directory tree, but there
are some things that can't obviously. :-)


--
Zeerak
 
Old 02-12-2010, 11:43 PM
walt
 
Default Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?

Zeerak Waseem wrote:

> I just started a degree, to accomplish -something akin to- that ;-)

Ah, good. Let me give you some free advice, well in advance. When
it comes time to pick people for your thesis committee -- pick ones
who love to argue. I think it may save you some pain later.
 
Old 02-13-2010, 05:29 AM
"Walter Dnes"
 
Default Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 02:37:53PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote

> You have been corrected on this point so many times I now think you
> are just a stupid ass.
>
> It is not slow.
>
> You are the only one saying that. People who do use Nepomuk say that
> it is not slow and does not hog resources (initial scan excepted).

a) Nepomuk is not slow and does not hog resources
b) dbus is not slow and does not hog resources
c) hal is not slow and does not hog resources
d) ....... is not slow and does not hog resources
etc, etc, etc.

Throw in enough "little stuff" and it eventually adds up. We seem to
be talking past each other. It's like the pay-TV channel you don't want
being bundled in basic cable. They may claim that they "only cost a
dollar a month, and surely you can afford that". Throw in 100 such
channels, and your cable bill gets ridiculous, and people start
demanding a-la-carte. The same principle applies here.

I agree with the concept that people who don't want KDE dependancies,
e.g. dbus, shouldn't use KDE apps. Therefore, I avoid amarok, kaffeine,
kplayer, etc. What got me started in this thread was the fact that what
had been a formerly-standalone media player (audacious), now pretty much
demands dbus. dbus would be "bundled in" to my "basic service", i.e.
ICEWM.

--
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
 
Old 02-13-2010, 06:47 AM
Dale
 
Default Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?

chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 02:37:53PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote



You have been corrected on this point so many times I now think you
are just a stupid ass.

It is not slow.

You are the only one saying that. People who do use Nepomuk say that
it is not slow and does not hog resources (initial scan excepted).


a) Nepomuk is not slow and does not hog resources
b) dbus is not slow and does not hog resources
c) hal is not slow and does not hog resources
d) ....... is not slow and does not hog resources
etc, etc, etc.

Throw in enough "little stuff" and it eventually adds up. We seem to
be talking past each other. It's like the pay-TV channel you don't want
being bundled in basic cable. They may claim that they "only cost a
dollar a month, and surely you can afford that". Throw in 100 such
channels, and your cable bill gets ridiculous, and people start
demanding a-la-carte. The same principle applies here.

I agree with the concept that people who don't want KDE dependancies,
e.g. dbus, shouldn't use KDE apps. Therefore, I avoid amarok, kaffeine,
kplayer, etc. What got me started in this thread was the fact that what
had been a formerly-standalone media player (audacious), now pretty much
demands dbus. dbus would be "bundled in" to my "basic service", i.e.
ICEWM.




I went into a Konsole, adjusted my fonts to just big enough I could even
see them, typed in top and guess what, I couldn't even get dbus or hal
to show up. Udev was waaaaay down at the very bottom and it shows it is
"sleeping" at the moment.


The list was showing 39 lines of running processes. Yep, udev was at
39. The others don't even make the top 40. Now those are a resource hog.


Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 02-13-2010, 11:07 AM
Volker Armin Hemmann
 
Default Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?

On Samstag 13 Februar 2010, Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 02:37:53PM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote
>
> > You have been corrected on this point so many times I now think you
> > are just a stupid ass.
> >
> > It is not slow.
> >
> > You are the only one saying that. People who do use Nepomuk say that
> > it is not slow and does not hog resources (initial scan excepted).
>
> a) Nepomuk is not slow and does not hog resources
> b) dbus is not slow and does not hog resources
> c) hal is not slow and does not hog resources
> d) ....... is not slow and does not hog resources
> etc, etc, etc.
>
> Throw in enough "little stuff" and it eventually adds up. We seem to
> be talking past each other. It's like the pay-TV channel you don't want
> being bundled in basic cable. They may claim that they "only cost a
> dollar a month, and surely you can afford that". Throw in 100 such
> channels, and your cable bill gets ridiculous, and people start
> demanding a-la-carte. The same principle applies here.
>
> I agree with the concept that people who don't want KDE dependancies,
> e.g. dbus, shouldn't use KDE apps. Therefore, I avoid amarok, kaffeine,
> kplayer, etc. What got me started in this thread was the fact that what
> had been a formerly-standalone media player (audacious), now pretty much
> demands dbus. dbus would be "bundled in" to my "basic service", i.e.
> ICEWM.

#except that dsbus is not a KDE application. Just grep to portage tree for
apps that use dbus.
The result might be a bit shocking.

Btw, do you have a car? But certainly you drive stick. Unsyncronized. Because
everything else is 'bloat'. And your tv has no way to find channels. You do it
manually - with a screwdriver, I am sure.
 

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