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Old 02-11-2010, 12:16 AM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:25:31 +0100, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:

> I don't know what load it creates because I never even have any
> negative impact. Yes, there is some nepomuk stuff sleeping in the
> background and it has zero impact on my desktop behaviour.

It's the Strigi indexer that can affect performance. I only notice it on
my desktop because of the increased drive noise. It's a three year old
dual core box, but there's no real impact. On the other hand, it brings
my Eee PC 1005 to its knees, which is why it's turned off on that.


--
Neil Bothwick

<Linuxgeek> How do i find the model of my card?
<Serena[T]> your nick is misleading, seriously
 
Old 02-11-2010, 12:17 AM
Stroller
 
Default Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?

On 11 Feb 2010, at 00:01, Jörg Schaible wrote:

...
your understanding is wrong. Completely wrong. Seriously it hurts.

start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEPOMUK_(framework)

and then proceed with the links.

google-desktop is something completley different (and something
that can

be replaced with find, locate and grep).


Well, in 4.3.x I eliminated it after the first try, because it took
so many
resources of my machine, that I could not use it for something else.
So, you
mean, in 4.4.x it takes only a 10% of the resources it took with
4.3.x? LOL,
although I really like the idea of the semantic desktop, I rather
have a

usable machine ...


I don't use KDE, but when I freshly install Mac OS (or migrate to a
new hard-drive) the Spotlight indexing hammers the drive for several
hours. It is not reasonable to compare performance during this initial
indexing period.


There is no way the likes of `find`, `grep` and `locate` - useful as
they are - can operate as efficiently as this kind of indexing (and
Spotlight is pretty damn poor - your KDE implementation is surely
loads better). I love `find`, `grep` and `locate` - they're fantastic,
but my typical usage of them is to perform strict batch operations. If
I just want to open a document then why would I wait for `find`,
`grep` - or go hunting around manually in sub-directories of sub-
directories - when I can just type a keyword into the search box and
find it immediately?


I cannot for a moment believe that you (Roy) can organise your files
so that you can find them easier than typing a search term & clicking
on the correct result. You just don't want to try it because your
current methods are "good enough" for you, but this isn't good grounds
on which to complain about KDE moving on with their development of a
state-of-the-art desktop which will actually make life easier for
millions of other people (people who aren't afraid to try it).


After the initial index, data is only indexed when you save a file,
using inotify [1], which is built into the kernel for maximum
efficiency. (Please correct me if I'm wrong about KDE's
implementation). So in actual real world usage, the result is that it
takes a fraction of a second longer when you save an Open Office
document. My 5 year old desktop can handle this overhead just fine. A
£100 Core 2 Duo + motherboard combo would surely handle it MUCH
better. I trust you can see why I'm dubious of claims of poor
performance.


I don't wish to seem rude, being strident with my arguments here. This
is just the way I see it.


Stroller.



[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inotify
 
Old 02-11-2010, 12:18 AM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:03:15 -0600, Roy Wright wrote:

> IMO, mandatory semantic-desktop is a very good reason to find another
> desktop manager (even after being my primary desktop for 7 years).

It's so mandatory it takes a whole mouse click to turn it off


--
Neil Bothwick

Old hitchhikers never die-they just throw in the towel.
 
Old 02-11-2010, 12:41 AM
Stroller
 
Default Has semantic-desktop really become compulsatory for kmail?

On 11 Feb 2010, at 01:14, Roy Wright wrote:

...
because to 'organize it properly' you would need a huge directory
tree plus
symlinks plus explaining notes to even simulate a small token of
the stuff

'semantic desktop' can do for you..


Haven't had a problem organizing my data in 25 years ... The only
"benefit" that the semantic desktop seems to deliver is to waste
resources.


I resisted in my last email the temptation to mention that some of
these complaints about semantic desktop sound like my father talking.
But there you are ...



Also didn't read anything even hinting at
security awareness of the technology which is really scary
(imagine an

attack that get's access to the RDFs,


those RDFs are in your home directory. If someone can read your
home you are

screwed anyway.


it'd tell the attacker exactly which
additional files to target).


oh yes, reading stuff about emails tells him to read more emails.
That is

scary.


But tagging files (say stock spreedsheets, bank records, financial
bookmarks, tax records) with tags (say 'bank, money, finance') all
in one place would simplify a targeted attack.


In the case of an attack ALL of your data will be stealthily copied so
that the attacker will go over it later.


and you can do that. Oh wow. That useflag only turns on soprano.
Nothing else.

Which means nothing. You are not forced to use that stuff.


So just another database server wasting resources. ...


Do you also complain about the spellchecker wasting resources, as it
parses the words you type?


In my father's day they were taught spelling rigidly at school like
parrots, so they had no need for this new-fangled nonsense. In my
father's day they never made spelling mistakes (yeah, right!).


This technology does not have a good track record (invasive cpu,
memory, disk usage) for very dubious benefits. I have not found any
cost vs. benefits vs. risks articles. Just a bunch of "we think
this will be great if you just use it" type articles that can't even
explain how it would be great.


My father can find all his banking records for the last 25 years
because he keeps them in a metal filing cabinet. He has to open the
correct draw, find the right file, leaf slowly through his bank
statements in order to find the right one. However well you claim to
have your files organised, I'll bet you waste time opening the wrong
drawer (clicking on the wrong folder) once in a while.


I, on the other hand, can find my statements by hitting ctrl-space,
typing "amex" and selecting the folder which comes up in the search
results. That folder is probably somewhere like /Documents/Personal/
Financial/Statements/Amex, but I don't need to know that (it could be
in Documents/Bank/ or elsewhere) nor do I need to navigate through
several folders looking for it. I just type what I'm looking for and
it's there.


Stroller.
 

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