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Old 02-14-2010, 01:46 PM
Enrico Weigelt
 
Default How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:

> so how do you propose that a network connection manager tells
> a broweser or mail app that they are offline?

use the filesystem ?

guess what: I've got a filesystem (a tiny 9p server) which even
lets me control the network interfaces.


cu
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/

cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: info@metux.de skype: nekrad666
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Old 02-14-2010, 01:48 PM
Enrico Weigelt
 
Default How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?

Neil Bothwick wrote:

> You're on a train, it goes into a 3G dead zone, your mailer hangs until
> it times out, meaning you can't even read cached mails until that happens.

Probably fix that broken MUA (or let it run via an caching proxy) ?


cu
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/

cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: info@metux.de skype: nekrad666
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Old 02-14-2010, 01:55 PM
Enrico Weigelt
 
Default How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?

Alan McKinnon wrote:

> You are assuming that smaller WMs don't need IPC. I believe that assumption to
> be false. If my belief is true, then your argument falls flat.

Guess what, there are even very small WMs that have an IPC, and a
very clear/portable/network-agnostic one: wmii uses 9P.

> By way of example: printing. By no stretch of the imagination can printing be
> considered to be a niche function. How will an arbitrary app find your
> printers? There are multiple print server around. So, you could:

lpr ?

If it's interface is not enough anymore, invent a new one.
Perhaps as a filesystem. 9P makes this *very* easy.

> Multimedia buttons. One of the most confounding things on modern hardware are
> multimedia buttons. Volume is easy - make it adjust the sound server.

man 1 plumb


cu
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/

cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: info@metux.de skype: nekrad666
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Old 02-14-2010, 01:59 PM
Enrico Weigelt
 
Default How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?

Alan McKinnon wrote:

> However. ELF is analogous (with the exception that you don't
> have one or two binary apps), and nothing is stopping you from
> building everything statically, or still using .a

Actually, if libraries hadn't been grown that extremly fat,
but instead using small tailored ones and moving the redundant
complexity to their own services, we perhaps won't need it at
all, but would be fine with small static binaries (which can
startup much faster).


cu
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/

cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: info@metux.de skype: nekrad666
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Old 02-14-2010, 02:15 PM
Volker Armin Hemmann
 
Default How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?

On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > However. ELF is analogous (with the exception that you don't
> > have one or two binary apps), and nothing is stopping you from
> > building everything statically, or still using .a
>
> Actually, if libraries hadn't been grown that extremly fat,
> but instead using small tailored ones and moving the redundant
> complexity to their own services, we perhaps won't need it at
> all, but would be fine with small static binaries (which can
> startup much faster).
>
>
> cu

startup time is not dependet on the size, harddisks are way too fast - but
symbol resolution. More libs, more work to resolve them, longer startup times.
 
Old 02-14-2010, 02:17 PM
Volker Armin Hemmann
 
Default How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?

On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > so how do you propose that a network connection manager tells
> > a broweser or mail app that they are offline?
>
> use the filesystem ?
>
> guess what: I've got a filesystem (a tiny 9p server) which even
> lets me control the network interfaces.
>
>
> cu

great for you. And how portable is your little solution?
 
Old 02-14-2010, 02:29 PM
Enrico Weigelt
 
Default How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
>> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>>> so how do you propose that a network connection manager tells
>>> a broweser or mail app that they are offline?
>> use the filesystem ?
>>
>> guess what: I've got a filesystem (a tiny 9p server) which even
>> lets me control the network interfaces.
>>
>>
>> cu
>
> great for you. And how portable is your little solution?

On the front side, very portable *and* network agnostic. You can
reach the server from practically anywhere (assuming fw allows it)
as long as you can access 9P fileservers (in theory it should also
be re-exportable through other network filesystems, even i didn
try it yet ;-o).

The backend side (the actual interface controll stuff) yet is
linux-specific, but it can be easily adapted to other platforms.


cu
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/

cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: info@metux.de skype: nekrad666
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Old 02-14-2010, 02:31 PM
Enrico Weigelt
 
Default How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:

> startup time is not dependet on the size, harddisks are way

Assuming you're using an harddisk (or another fast-enough
medium) at all.

> too fast - but symbol resolution. More libs, more work to
> resolve them, longer startup times.

Exactly. And that wouldn't be needed with static executables.

Of course this could be minimized by proper prelinking techniques
(some kind of JIT for dynamic linking ;-), but that's another
topic for its own.


cu
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/

cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: info@metux.de skype: nekrad666
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Old 02-14-2010, 04:09 PM
Volker Armin Hemmann
 
Default How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?

On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
> >> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> >>> so how do you propose that a network connection manager tells
> >>> a broweser or mail app that they are offline?
> >>
> >> use the filesystem ?
> >>
> >> guess what: I've got a filesystem (a tiny 9p server) which even
> >> lets me control the network interfaces.
> >>
> >>
> >> cu
> >
> > great for you. And how portable is your little solution?
>
> On the front side, very portable *and* network agnostic. You can
> reach the server from practically anywhere (assuming fw allows it)
> as long as you can access 9P fileservers (in theory it should also
> be re-exportable through other network filesystems, even i didn
> try it yet ;-o).
>
> The backend side (the actual interface controll stuff) yet is
> linux-specific, but it can be easily adapted to other platforms.

don't waste your time - dbis is already there...
 
Old 02-14-2010, 04:19 PM
Volker Armin Hemmann
 
Default How the HAL are you supposed to use these files?

On Sonntag 14 Februar 2010, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > startup time is not dependet on the size, harddisks are way
>
> Assuming you're using an harddisk (or another fast-enough
> medium) at all.
>
> > too fast - but symbol resolution. More libs, more work to
> > resolve them, longer startup times.
>
> Exactly. And that wouldn't be needed with static executables.

no, but with static exes you have to recompile everything everytime a security
bug is found. Or some other bug fixed. Oh - and didn't you just complain about
bloat? Nothing means more bloat than static binaries.
 

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