On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:29:30 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > Taken more globally, maybe portage should warn whenever you are
> > trying to remove a package that is a dependency of anything in
> > @world.
>
> Could be useful if implemented with an off switch
>
> Or leave it off by default, users can enable it in make.conf if they
> wish. I often unmerge deps of things in world, but I know (usually)
> what I'm doing and will follow up with a --deep later. Annoying "Are
> you sure?" "Are you REALLY sure?" might make me switch to Ubuntu :-)

A command line argument (--force?) would be fine, but you can't complain
it's annoying when you have just complained that portage doesn't do this.
Either you want to be able to shoot yourself in the foot or you don't.


--
Neil Bothwick

Cross-country skiing is great in small countries.

Neil Bothwick wrote:

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:29:30 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:



Taken more globally, maybe portage should warn whenever you are
trying to remove a package that is a dependency of anything in
@world.


Could be useful if implemented with an off switch


Or leave it off by default, users can enable it in make.conf if they
wish. I often unmerge deps of things in world, but I know (usually)
what I'm doing and will follow up with a --deep later. Annoying "Are
you sure?" "Are you REALLY sure?" might make me switch to Ubuntu :-)



A command line argument (--force?) would be fine, but you can't complain
it's annoying when you have just complained that portage doesn't do this.
Either you want to be able to shoot yourself in the foot or you don't.




I agree with this. I like the idea of --force. It would let portage
know that you are aware of what you are doing. Thing is, sometimes new
people remove python and they don't know YET that portage has to have
python. They find that out afterwards.

Thing is, if you try to unmerge portage, it will tell you it will break
stuff. Removing portage can be recovered from easily. We don't really
need a warning for that. You just untar the thing and carry on.
Removing python is not that simple unless you happen to have a binary
saved. The bad thing is, since python is not a "system" package, it
doesn't even save the last compiled binary in /usr/portage/packages/All/
if you only have buildsyspkg in make.conf. It does portage but not
python. If you want to have python saved, you have to do it manually or
set buildpkg in make.conf which will save a copy of EVERYTHING. That
would include the world packages as well.


I seriously doubt the devs will change any of this anytime soon tho.
This is pretty much a mute point.


Dale

:-) :-)

On Thursday 04 February 2010 02:04:36 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:29:30 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > > Taken more globally, maybe portage should warn whenever you are
> > > trying to remove a package that is a dependency of anything in
> > > @world.
> >
> > Could be useful if implemented with an off switch
> >
> > Or leave it off by default, users can enable it in make.conf if they
> > wish. I often unmerge deps of things in world, but I know (usually)
> > what I'm doing and will follow up with a --deep later. Annoying "Are
> > you sure?" "Are you REALLY sure?" might make me switch to Ubuntu :-)
>
> A command line argument (--force?) would be fine, but you can't complain
> it's annoying when you have just complained that portage doesn't do this.

I didn't make that complaint...


--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

On Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:46:17 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > A command line argument (--force?) would be fine, but you can't
> > complain it's annoying when you have just complained that portage
> > doesn't do this.
>
> I didn't make that complaint...

Sorry, that comment was aimed at Dale. I know you be quite happy to take
responsibility for borking your own system :P


--
Neil Bothwick

Top Oxymorons Number 10: Computer security

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:06:54 -0600, Dale wrote:

> The bad thing is, since python is not a "system" package, it
> doesn't even save the last compiled binary
> in /usr/portage/packages/All/ if you only have buildsyspkg in
> make.conf. It does portage but not python.

That's because python is no longer an essential requirement of Gentoo. It
is a dependency of portage, but Gentoo now supports multiple package
managers, so portage is not required either.


--
Neil Bothwick

The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who
think.(Horace Walpole)

Neil Bothwick wrote:

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:06:54 -0600, Dale wrote:


The bad thing is, since python is not a "system" package, it
doesn't even save the last compiled binary

in /usr/portage/packages/All/ if you only have buildsyspkg in
make.conf. It does portage but not python.



That's because python is no longer an essential requirement of Gentoo. It
is a dependency of portage, but Gentoo now supports multiple package
managers, so portage is not required either.




That's true but unmerging python still breaks portage. Talking about
some other package manager doesn't affect portage and the fact that
removing python breaks it. The facts still remain the same as before.
Remove python and portage is broken.


Dale

:-) :-)

On Thursday 04 February 2010 12:14:52 Dale wrote:
> Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:06:54 -0600, Dale wrote:
> >> The bad thing is, since python is not a "system" package, it
> >> doesn't even save the last compiled binary
> >> in /usr/portage/packages/All/ if you only have buildsyspkg in
> >> make.conf. It does portage but not python.
> >
> > That's because python is no longer an essential requirement of Gentoo. It
> > is a dependency of portage, but Gentoo now supports multiple package
> > managers, so portage is not required either.
>
> That's true but unmerging python still breaks portage. Talking about
> some other package manager doesn't affect portage and the fact that
> removing python breaks it. The facts still remain the same as before.
> Remove python and portage is broken.


How about a portage feature request?

The contents of @system can have dependencies. Put a setting in a conf file
which means the system uses portage, therefore python is in @system.

Without the setting, python does not get included in @system.

I have no idea how this would fly, it's just an idea off the top of my head

--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

On Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:05:55 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> How about a portage feature request?
>
> The contents of @system can have dependencies. Put a setting in a conf
> file which means the system uses portage, therefore python is in
> @system.
>
> Without the setting, python does not get included in @system.

How about giving the same warning when unmerging a dependency of @system
as you do when unmerging a package directly in there. Either way, you
risk breaking the system.

Hmm, the random tagline is spookily relevant.


--
Neil Bothwick

I do not like this dumb machine
I really ought to sell it.
It never does just what I want
But only what I tell it.

On Thursday 04 February 2010 15:37:17 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:05:55 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > How about a portage feature request?
> >
> > The contents of @system can have dependencies. Put a setting in a conf
> > file which means the system uses portage, therefore python is in
> > @system.
> >
> > Without the setting, python does not get included in @system.
>
> How about giving the same warning when unmerging a dependency of @system
> as you do when unmerging a package directly in there. Either way, you
> risk breaking the system.

Aren't all deps of packages in @system themselves already in @system?


--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

On Thu, 4 Feb 2010 16:14:25 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > How about giving the same warning when unmerging a dependency of
> > @system as you do when unmerging a package directly in there. Either
> > way, you risk breaking the system.
>
> Aren't all deps of packages in @system themselves already in @system?

No, otherwise portage would complain if you tried to unmerge python.
Anyway, deps are USE-dependent. Try USE="X" emerge @system on a headless
server to see jut how much @system can pull in.


--
Neil Bothwick

Life Support System Failure - Reboot Patient (Y/n)?