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Old 01-05-2010, 03:10 PM
Alex Schuster
 
Default emerge @preserved-rebuild EVEN IF some needed package is masked

Helmut Jarausch writes:

> emerge @preserved-rebuild fails to do any updating since a single
> (needed) package has been masked.
> But I do need to keep kdelibs:3.5 which pulls in
> kde-misc/kdnssd-avahi:3.5 which has been masked.
>
> Is it possible to tell emerge to do the other updates which don't need
> this?
>
> Dropping kde:3.5 too early is one of the biggest disappointsment of
> GenToo! For someone who needs some package depending on it, it's really
> hard. (I do need kexi)

Well, it's still all there, not in the official Gentoo portage tree, but
in the kde-sunset overlay. Get it, unmask all the KDE 3.5 stuff, and all
should be fine again. See this guide for details:

http://www.linuxized.com/2009/11/how-to-keep-your-kde-3-5-after-its-
removed-gentoos-tree-using-the-kde-sunset-overlay/

weird ~ # eix kdnssd-avahi
* kde-misc/kdnssd-avahi
Available versions: (3.5) {M}0.1.2[1] {M}0.1.2-r1 {M}0.1.2-r1[1]
{arts debug elibc_FreeBSD xinerama}
Homepage: http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-
index.php?page=Zeroconf+in+KDE
Description: DNS Service Discovery kioslave using Avahi
(rather than mDNSResponder)

[1] "kde-sunset" /usr/local/portage/layman/kde-sunset
weird ~ # emerge -ptv kdnssd-avahi

These are the packages that would be merged, in reverse order:

Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild N ] kde-misc/kdnssd-avahi-0.1.2-r1 USE="(-arts) -debug -
xinerama" 739 kB [1]
[ebuild N ] net-dns/avahi-0.6.24-r2 USE="dbus gdbm gtk ipv6 python
qt4 -autoipd -bookmarks -doc -howl-compat -mdnsresponder-compat -mono -qt3
-test" 1,090 kB [1]
[ebuild N ] dev-libs/libdaemon-0.13-r1 USE="-doc -examples" 360 kB
[0]

Total: 3 packages (3 new), Size of downloads: 2,188 kB
Portage tree and overlays:
[0] /usr/portage/tree
[1] /usr/local/portage/layman/kde-sunset

Wonko
 
Old 01-05-2010, 10:33 PM
Dale
 
Default emerge @preserved-rebuild EVEN IF some needed package is masked

Helmut Jarausch wrote:

Hi,

emerge @preserved-rebuild fails to do any updating since a single
(needed) package has been masked.
But I do need to keep kdelibs:3.5 which pulls in kde-misc/kdnssd-avahi:3.5
which has been masked.

Is it possible to tell emerge to do the other updates which don't need
this?

Dropping kde:3.5 too early is one of the biggest disappointsment of
GenToo! For someone who needs some package depending on it, it's really
hard. (I do need kexi)

Many thanks for some help,
Helmut.




Gentoo wasn't at fault here. KDE was the one that dropped the ball.
Gentoo had to follow the knuckle heads at KDE tho.


Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 01-06-2010, 01:06 PM
Stroller
 
Default emerge @preserved-rebuild EVEN IF some needed package is masked

On 5 Jan 2010, at 23:33, Dale wrote:

...
Gentoo wasn't at fault here. KDE was the one that dropped the
ball. Gentoo had to follow the knuckle heads at KDE tho.

Dale


Between KDE & Gentoo, aren't most contributors volunteers? In
volunteer development it's normal & necessary to focus on the features
that one needs most. I can really understand KDE's position that
downstream distros - Red Hat & Canonical both have paid developers -
can continue maintenance on a codebase that is no longer receiving
their primary attention.


Stroller.
 
Old 01-06-2010, 05:57 PM
Dale
 
Default emerge @preserved-rebuild EVEN IF some needed package is masked

Stroller wrote:


On 5 Jan 2010, at 23:33, Dale wrote:

...
Gentoo wasn't at fault here. KDE was the one that dropped the ball.
Gentoo had to follow the knuckle heads at KDE tho.

Dale


Between KDE & Gentoo, aren't most contributors volunteers? In
volunteer development it's normal & necessary to focus on the features
that one needs most. I can really understand KDE's position that
downstream distros - Red Hat & Canonical both have paid developers -
can continue maintenance on a codebase that is no longer receiving
their primary attention.


Stroller.



So, KDE is maintaining KDE 3.5? If KDE is/was maintaining KDE 3.5 then
Gentoo would still have it in the tree. If KDE is not supporting KDE
3.5 then Gentoo has to drop it, as things break and develop security
issues. Again, this is not Gentoo's fault for not developing KDE 3.5,
it is KDE that dropped it. What Redhat does most likely won't affect
what Gentoo does. I don't use Redhat but I do use Gentoo.

I'm also pretty sure that Gentoo doesn't do development work on Gnome,
Fluxbox, Apache, MySql and other packages. They just make ebuilds and
put them in the tree so people can use them.


Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 01-07-2010, 06:19 PM
Stroller
 
Default emerge @preserved-rebuild EVEN IF some needed package is masked

On 6 Jan 2010, at 18:57, Dale wrote:

Stroller wrote:

On 5 Jan 2010, at 23:33, Dale wrote:

...
Gentoo wasn't at fault here. KDE was the one that dropped the
ball. Gentoo had to follow the knuckle heads at KDE tho.


Between KDE & Gentoo, aren't most contributors volunteers? In
volunteer development it's normal & necessary to focus on the
features that one needs most. I can really understand KDE's
position that downstream distros - Red Hat & Canonical both have
paid developers - can continue maintenance on a codebase that is no
longer receiving their primary attention.


So, KDE is maintaining KDE 3.5? If KDE is/was maintaining KDE 3.5
then Gentoo would still have it in the tree. If KDE is not
supporting KDE 3.5 then Gentoo has to drop it, as things break and
develop security issues. Again, this is not Gentoo's fault for not
developing KDE 3.5, it is KDE that dropped it. What Redhat does
most likely won't affect what Gentoo does. I don't use Redhat but I
do use Gentoo.


Where did I say KDE is maintaining KDE 3.5?

If you want to find "fault", Dale, it's your fault for using free
software you're not prepared to maintain. The source code is there -
fix any bugs you have problems with.


I'm also pretty sure that Gentoo doesn't do development work on
Gnome, Fluxbox, Apache, MySql and other packages. They just make
ebuilds and put them in the tree so people can use them.


I'm pretty sure you don't do development work on X, Y or Z, either.

I'm all for attributing blame when devs make decisions I disagree
with, but this is simply a matter of limited resources.


I hope my above statements don't sound nasty, but you want 3.5, Alan
[1] wants KDE 4. The various developers upstream of you and Alan -
i.e. both KDE and Gentoo - don't have time to work on both. So they
have each chosen where to spend their time, and that's on KDE 4.


Sorry if you don't like it - this wasn't my decision, I'm just trying
to explain. Either you or Alan are going to be disappointed that your
preferred version doesn't get the attention you would like it to.
Sorry it had to be you.


Stroller.



[1] Some hypothetical Alan who does not really exist.
 
Old 01-07-2010, 07:16 PM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default emerge @preserved-rebuild EVEN IF some needed package is masked

On Thursday 07 January 2010 21:19:27 Stroller wrote:
> I hope my above statements don't sound nasty, but you want 3.5, Alan
> [1] wants KDE 4. The various developers upstream of you and Alan -
> i.e. both KDE and Gentoo - don't have time to work on both. So they
> have each chosen where to spend their time, and that's on KDE 4.

[snip]

> [1] Some hypothetical Alan who does not really exist.

Ahem <cough><cough>

I *think*, but not sure, that I feel offended by being mythicalisized[2]

[2] Some hypothetical word that truly does not exist.

Lucky for us, the Red hats and SuSEs of this world will maintain at least
critical security flaws in KDE-3.5 that Gentoo users can import into kde-
sunset: those distros shipped KDE-3.5 and are still actively supported

--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
 
Old 01-07-2010, 09:25 PM
Dale
 
Default emerge @preserved-rebuild EVEN IF some needed package is masked

Alan McKinnon wrote:

On Thursday 07 January 2010 21:19:27 Stroller wrote:

I hope my above statements don't sound nasty, but you want 3.5, Alan
[1] wants KDE 4. The various developers upstream of you and Alan -
i.e. both KDE and Gentoo - don't have time to work on both. So they
have each chosen where to spend their time, and that's on KDE 4.



[snip]


[1] Some hypothetical Alan who does not really exist.



Ahem <cough><cough>

I *think*, but not sure, that I feel offended by being mythicalisized[2]

[2] Some hypothetical word that truly does not exist.

Lucky for us, the Red hats and SuSEs of this world will maintain at least
critical security flaws in KDE-3.5 that Gentoo users can import into kde-

sunset: those distros shipped KDE-3.5 and are still actively supported




Should we also assume that Redhat and SuSE is doing that support, not
KDE who is the one that dropped KDE 3.5 ??


Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 01-07-2010, 09:39 PM
Dale
 
Default emerge @preserved-rebuild EVEN IF some needed package is masked

Stroller wrote:


On 6 Jan 2010, at 18:57, Dale wrote:

Stroller wrote:

On 5 Jan 2010, at 23:33, Dale wrote:

...
Gentoo wasn't at fault here. KDE was the one that dropped the
ball. Gentoo had to follow the knuckle heads at KDE tho.


Between KDE & Gentoo, aren't most contributors volunteers? In
volunteer development it's normal & necessary to focus on the
features that one needs most. I can really understand KDE's position
that downstream distros - Red Hat & Canonical both have paid
developers - can continue maintenance on a codebase that is no
longer receiving their primary attention.


So, KDE is maintaining KDE 3.5? If KDE is/was maintaining KDE 3.5
then Gentoo would still have it in the tree. If KDE is not
supporting KDE 3.5 then Gentoo has to drop it, as things break and
develop security issues. Again, this is not Gentoo's fault for not
developing KDE 3.5, it is KDE that dropped it. What Redhat does most
likely won't affect what Gentoo does. I don't use Redhat but I do
use Gentoo.


Where did I say KDE is maintaining KDE 3.5?


That was the question. Saying that Redhat or someone else is
maintaining KDE is not the same as KDE maintaining it.




If you want to find "fault", Dale, it's your fault for using free
software you're not prepared to maintain. The source code is there -
fix any bugs you have problems with.


My fault? I don't develop any software so is everything else my fault too?




I'm also pretty sure that Gentoo doesn't do development work on
Gnome, Fluxbox, Apache, MySql and other packages. They just make
ebuilds and put them in the tree so people can use them.


I'm pretty sure you don't do development work on X, Y or Z, either.

I'm all for attributing blame when devs make decisions I disagree
with, but this is simply a matter of limited resources.


I hope my above statements don't sound nasty, but you want 3.5, Alan
[1] wants KDE 4. The various developers upstream of you and Alan -
i.e. both KDE and Gentoo - don't have time to work on both. So they
have each chosen where to spend their time, and that's on KDE 4.


Sorry if you don't like it - this wasn't my decision, I'm just trying
to explain. Either you or Alan are going to be disappointed that your
preferred version doesn't get the attention you would like it to.
Sorry it had to be you.


Stroller.



[1] Some hypothetical Alan who does not really exist.



And I'm sorry that they made the decision they made too. Thing about
software, no one can force someone to use it. With windoze, you get IE
whether you like it or not. You don't really have a *easy* choice
there. If I don't like KDE, I can switch to something else. With
things brealing like they are, that day may come.

This point has been discussed a lot on the KDE mailing list. KDE
dropped support for KDE 3.5. It wasn't Gentoo that dropped it. It
wasn't any other distro either, it was KDE. Sorry you want to blame me
or someone else for their decisions.


Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 01-08-2010, 05:50 AM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default emerge @preserved-rebuild EVEN IF some needed package is masked

On Friday 08 January 2010 00:25:03 Dale wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On Thursday 07 January 2010 21:19:27 Stroller wrote:
> >> I hope my above statements don't sound nasty, but you want 3.5, Alan
> >> [1] wants KDE 4. The various developers upstream of you and Alan -
> >> i.e. both KDE and Gentoo - don't have time to work on both. So they
> >> have each chosen where to spend their time, and that's on KDE 4.
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> >> [1] Some hypothetical Alan who does not really exist.
> >
> > Ahem <cough><cough>
> >
> > I *think*, but not sure, that I feel offended by being mythicalisized[2]
> >
> > [2] Some hypothetical word that truly does not exist.
> >
> > Lucky for us, the Red hats and SuSEs of this world will maintain at least
> > critical security flaws in KDE-3.5 that Gentoo users can import into kde-
> > sunset: those distros shipped KDE-3.5 and are still actively supported
>
> Should we also assume that Redhat and SuSE is doing that support, not
> KDE who is the one that dropped KDE 3.5 ??


Yes, that's reasonable. RH shipped KDE-3.5 with fully supported versions of
RHEL, and those versions are still current. So just like RH backport useful
kernel code into their shipped versions, we can expect RH to at least deal
with critical security bugs. They likely will not add new features to KDE-3.5
though.

There's no inside info here, I'm just stating the way these things usually
work out there in the marketplace

--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
 
Old 01-08-2010, 07:06 AM
Dale
 
Default emerge @preserved-rebuild EVEN IF some needed package is masked

Alan McKinnon wrote:

On Friday 08 January 2010 00:25:03 Dale wrote:


Alan McKinnon wrote:


On Thursday 07 January 2010 21:19:27 Stroller wrote:


I hope my above statements don't sound nasty, but you want 3.5, Alan
[1] wants KDE 4. The various developers upstream of you and Alan -
i.e. both KDE and Gentoo - don't have time to work on both. So they
have each chosen where to spend their time, and that's on KDE 4.


[snip]



[1] Some hypothetical Alan who does not really exist.


Ahem <cough><cough>

I *think*, but not sure, that I feel offended by being mythicalisized[2]

[2] Some hypothetical word that truly does not exist.

Lucky for us, the Red hats and SuSEs of this world will maintain at least
critical security flaws in KDE-3.5 that Gentoo users can import into kde-
sunset: those distros shipped KDE-3.5 and are still actively supported


Should we also assume that Redhat and SuSE is doing that support, not
KDE who is the one that dropped KDE 3.5 ??




Yes, that's reasonable. RH shipped KDE-3.5 with fully supported versions of
RHEL, and those versions are still current. So just like RH backport useful
kernel code into their shipped versions, we can expect RH to at least deal
with critical security bugs. They likely will not add new features to KDE-3.5
though.


There's no inside info here, I'm just stating the way these things usually
work out there in the marketplace





But KDE still dropped the support tho? That was my point. It wasn't
Redhat, Gentoo, SuSe or some other distro or even me that dropped it, it
was KDE that dropped it.


Now to this question, will what Redhat is doing ever make it to the
kde-sunset overlay? Or will that be so far out that KDE 4 will finally
be ready by that time?


Dale

:-) :-)
 

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