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Old 03-22-2009, 07:55 PM
Albert Hopkins
 
Default Time to move on?

On Sun, 2009-03-22 at 13:23 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:
> Personally I think we're in one of those
> unfortunate periods of time where there is a relatively high number of
> issues. I'm seeing it on all my machines. It's taking far more of my
> time to deal with this than I wish it would.
>
> 1) ntp-update problems at boot time.

Hmm, I'm not having any ntp-update problems on my machines. Have you
submitted a bug report or searched the bug database? Obviously this
isn't happening for everyone so if the right people don't know about it
then you can't expect it to get fixed.

> 2) emerge -DuN world building lots of packages that are already on the
> system but the LoG has apparently changed flags so emerge wants to
> rebuild them.

But that's what -N does! That's what it's documented to do. RTFM. If you
don't want that behavior then don't use -N. Either use --reinstall
changed-use or don't use any USE-specific flags. Personally I just let
portage re-install as it doesn't really change anything if you haven't
changed your use flags.

> 3) New and unclear (to me) messages about portage flag overrides
> caused by overlays I've been using for a while.

These are probably warnings about overlays overriding settings in the
regular portage profile. Some overlays do this. It's just a fact of
life. Again, if you don't want to deal with it then don't use overlays
or at least choose overlays that don't do potentially bad things. It's
not the Gentoo devs responsibility if you bring in 3rd-party overlays
that change stuff.

So with the possible exception of #1, these appear to be "but it hurts
when I do that" problems, not issues with Gentoo stability.
 
Old 03-22-2009, 09:02 PM
Mark Knecht
 
Default Time to move on?

On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 13:23:38 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>> 2) emerge -DuN world building lots of packages that are already on the
>> system but the LoG has apparently changed flags so emerge wants to
>> rebuild them.
>
> Don't use --newuse, use --reinstall changed-use.
>
>
> --
> Neil Bothwick

Neil,
As always, thanks.

So, is this option new in the last few years or something? I
haven't seen it before.

Also, it seems that there's no shortcut for that command so instead of

emerge -pvDuN @world

if I understand then I might try

emerge -pvDu --reinstall changed-use @world

??? Certainly a lot more typing. ;-)

Thanks. I'll check it out on the next round up updates.

Cheers,
Mark
 
Old 03-22-2009, 09:07 PM
Mark Knecht
 
Default Time to move on?

On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Albert Hopkins <marduk@letterboxes.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 2009-03-22 at 13:23 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:
>> Personally I think we're in one of those
>> unfortunate periods of time where there is a relatively high number of
>> issues. I'm seeing it on all my machines. It's taking far more of my
>> time to deal with this than I wish it would.
>>
>> 1) ntp-update problems at boot time.
>
> Hmm, *I'm not having any ntp-update problems on my machines. *Have you
> submitted a bug report or searched the bug database? *Obviously this
> isn't happening for everyone so if the right people don't know about it
> then you can't expect it to get fixed.

There's something going on here but I haven't tried to debug it. It's
more like ntp isn't finding servers. some machines work. Others don't.
timeouts waiting to boot. I need to find out where server names are
set and then see if there is a difference between all my machines.

No, I haven't filed a bug because:

1) I haven't figured out if it's my problem or Gentoo's yet
2) I have the impression that no one is reading or responding to bug
reports these days, based on my generally negative view of how portage
is being handled. But that's just my impression and not really worthy
of a discussion because it's all free labor and free software to me so
why should I complain?

>
>> 2) emerge -DuN world building lots of packages that are already on the
>> system but the LoG has apparently changed flags so emerge wants to
>> rebuild them.
>
> But that's what -N does! That's what it's documented to do. RTFM. If you
> don't want that behavior then don't use -N. *Either use --reinstall
> changed-use or don't use any USE-specific flags. *Personally I just let
> portage re-install as it doesn't really change anything if you haven't
> changed your use flags.

Thanks.

>
>> 3) New and unclear (to me) messages about portage flag overrides
>> caused by overlays I've been using for a while.
>
> These are probably warnings about overlays overriding settings in the
> regular portage profile. *Some overlays do this. *It's just a fact of
> life. *Again, if you don't want to deal with it then don't use overlays
> or at least choose overlays that don't do potentially bad things. It's
> not the Gentoo devs responsibility if you bring in 3rd-party overlays
> that change stuff.
>
> So with the possible exception of #1, these appear to be "but it hurts
> when I do that" problems, not issues with Gentoo stability.

I won't bother responding to the above.

Thanks,
Mark
 
Old 03-22-2009, 10:02 PM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default Time to move on?

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 15:02:12 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:

> Also, it seems that there's no shortcut for that command so instead
> of
>
> emerge -pvDuN @world
>
> if I understand then I might try
>
> emerge -pvDu --reinstall changed-use @world
>
> ??? Certainly a lot more typing. ;-)

Use an alias and it's less typing.


--
Neil Bothwick

Fine day for a good workout. Steal something heavy.
 
Old 03-22-2009, 10:20 PM
Stroller
 
Default Time to move on?

On 22 Mar 2009, at 22:07, Mark Knecht wrote:

...
1) ntp-update problems at boot time.


Hmm, I'm not having any ntp-update problems on my machines. Have
you

submitted a bug report or searched the bug database? Obviously this
isn't happening for everyone so if the right people don't know
about it

then you can't expect it to get fixed.


There's something going on here but I haven't tried to debug it. It's
more like ntp isn't finding servers. some machines work. Others don't.
timeouts waiting to boot. I need to find out where server names are
set and then see if there is a difference between all my machines.


Not sure if this helps:
http://forum.soft32.com/linux/gentoo-user-init-ntpd-ntp-client-ftopict476010.html

Stroller.
 
Old 03-22-2009, 11:26 PM
Dale
 
Default Time to move on?

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 15:02:12 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>
>> Also, it seems that there's no shortcut for that command so instead
>> of
>>
>> emerge -pvDuN @world
>>
>> if I understand then I might try
>>
>> emerge -pvDu --reinstall changed-use @world
>>
>> ??? Certainly a lot more typing. ;-)
>>
>
> Use an alias and it's less typing.
>
>
>

Or add it to make.conf. I think that would work too.

Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 03-22-2009, 11:53 PM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default Time to move on?

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:26:40 -0500, Dale wrote:

> >> emerge -pvDu --reinstall changed-use @world
> >>
> >> ??? Certainly a lot more typing. ;-)

> > Use an alias and it's less typing.

> Or add it to make.conf. I think that would work too.

It would work, every time you called emerge, whether you wanted that
option or not.I prefer to have aliases for commands with options that I
call often, but not every time.


--
Neil Bothwick

Windows Error #09: Game Over. Exiting Windows.
 
Old 03-23-2009, 02:18 AM
Dale
 
Default Time to move on?

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:26:40 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>
>>>> emerge -pvDu --reinstall changed-use @world
>>>>
>>>> ??? Certainly a lot more typing. ;-)
>>>>
>
>
>>> Use an alias and it's less typing.
>>>
>
>
>> Or add it to make.conf. I think that would work too.
>>
>
> It would work, every time you called emerge, whether you wanted that
> option or not.I prefer to have aliases for commands with options that I
> call often, but not every time.
>
>
>

I'm not real familiar with aliases but know what it is. If you use the
alias method, how would you disable it for a one time run?

Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 03-23-2009, 02:39 AM
Albert Hopkins
 
Default Time to move on?

On Sun, 2009-03-22 at 22:18 -0500, Dale wrote:
> Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:26:40 -0500, Dale wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>> emerge -pvDu --reinstall changed-use @world
> >>>>
> >>>> ??? Certainly a lot more typing. ;-)
> >>>>
> >
> >
> >>> Use an alias and it's less typing.
> >>>
> >
> >
> >> Or add it to make.conf. I think that would work too.
> >>
> >
> > It would work, every time you called emerge, whether you wanted that
> > option or not.I prefer to have aliases for commands with options that I
> > call often, but not every time.
> >
> >
> >
>
> I'm not real familiar with aliases but know what it is. If you use the
> alias method, how would you disable it for a one time run?

Uh.. you don't "disable" it. You simply don't use the alias.
 
Old 03-23-2009, 07:53 AM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default Time to move on?

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 22:18:09 -0500, Dale wrote:

> I'm not real familiar with aliases but know what it is. If you use the
> alias method, how would you disable it for a one time run?

If you gave the alias the same name as the command, just use the full
path to the command to call it directly. But in this case, using a
different name for the alias makes much more sense. I have these two
aliases defined

alias smerge='sudo emerge --update --reinstall changed-use --ask @system'
alias wmerge='sudo emerge --update --deep --reinstall changed-use --ask --with-bdeps y @world'


--
Neil Bothwick

If ignorance is bliss, you must be orgasmic.
 

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