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Old 02-04-2009, 05:22 AM
Paul Hartman
 
Default Gentoo's advantage: "optimized for your system" -- huh?

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 12:17 AM, Grant Edwards <grante@visi.com> wrote:
> On 2009-02-04, James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>> Grant Edwards <grante <at> visi.com> writes:
>>
>>> Whenever I see a write-up of Gentoo, it's described as a system
>>> similar to BSD "ports" where you build packages from source.
>>> The main benefit claimed for this approach is that you get
>>> better performance because all executables are optimized for
>>> exactly the right instruction set. is practically nil in
>>> real-world usage.
>>
>> Not true. You can eliminate many non-essential portions of a
>> compiled program, via use flag and the freedom you get to
>> select software, as opposed to other distros. Smaller
>> executables are usually always faster.
>
> You're right, that's another big advantage: you can control
> what features get included/enabled in an application. Leaving
> out features you don't use makes a big difference in many
> applications load/startup times and library dependancies. For
> example, leaving out the Gnome and/or KDE support in some apps
> makes a pretty big difference. If you only use mutt with
> "mbox" formatted mailboxes, you can leave out imap, ssl, pop,
> and maildir support.
>
> But that wasn't what I was talking about, and AFAICT that's not
> what reviewers are talking about when they talk about adjusting
> compiler flags to optimize performance. They seem to be talking
> about building for Athlon instead of P4 (or vice-versa).
> Perhaps I've always completely misunderstood the articles I've
> read, and they were indeed talking about USE flags that control
> options passed to "configure" and not about things like gcc's
> -march and -O options.
>
>> One *BIG* difference is when the GPUs on video cards are used
>> as co-processors on systems. ATI and Nv are working on making
>> general purpose "C" languages for programs to take advantage
>> of the power of the GPU. Look for Gentoo to beat the other
>> distros, by the very nature of how it compiles code for
>> everything.
>
> That would indeed be interesting.

This thread is not complete without the obligatory link:

http://funroll-loops.info/

 
Old 02-04-2009, 03:07 PM
James
 
Default Gentoo's advantage: "optimized for your system" -- huh?

Paul Hartman <paul.hartman+gentoo <at> gmail.com> writes:



> >> One *BIG* difference is when the GPUs on video cards are used
> >> as co-processors on systems. ATI and Nv are working on making
> >> general purpose "C" languages for programs to take advantage
> >> of the power of the GPU. Look for Gentoo to beat the other
> >> distros, by the very nature of how it compiles code for
> >> everything.


> http://funroll-loops.info/


According to your logic, Nvidia and ATI(AMD) are ricers....?


http://developer.nvidia.com/object/cg_toolkit.html
http://techreport.com/discussions.x/15886

Or maybe the folks at CMU are ricers?
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~cil/v-source.html

Surely these folks at StonyBrook are ricers?
http://www.ecsl.cs.sunysb.edu/fir/

Not to mention these folks at Stanford,
http://novembertech.blogspot.com/2006/10/stanford-atis-gpu-can-calculate-much.html


And all of these scientists are ricers?
http://gpgpu.org/


I count myself proud to be among this company
of "ricers" as you put it......



James
 
Old 02-04-2009, 03:19 PM
Hazen Valliant-Saunders
 
Default Gentoo's advantage: "optimized for your system" -- huh?

With unit processors approaching up to 128 Cores on a single GPU I can
see why the guys at all those institutions want to put EL lights in
their big hawking 4 card SLI rigs?

That's like 1600 Cores on a single system, Even Blue Gene L only has
Dual Core PowerPC 440's, whith AMD's 4870 having 800 SPU's on a single
die, the X2 has two of them; oh and did we mention they are cheap?
(Blue Gene cost 100 million, right now a 4870x2 is only $500).

No they would never be useful for anything other then rendering
bouncing bobbies!

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 11:07 AM, James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> Paul Hartman <paul.hartman+gentoo <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>
>> >> One *BIG* difference is when the GPUs on video cards are used
>> >> as co-processors on systems. ATI and Nv are working on making
>> >> general purpose "C" languages for programs to take advantage
>> >> of the power of the GPU. Look for Gentoo to beat the other
>> >> distros, by the very nature of how it compiles code for
>> >> everything.
>
>
>> http://funroll-loops.info/
>
>
> According to your logic, Nvidia and ATI(AMD) are ricers....?
>
>
> http://developer.nvidia.com/object/cg_toolkit.html
> http://techreport.com/discussions.x/15886
>
> Or maybe the folks at CMU are ricers?
> http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~cil/v-source.html
>
> Surely these folks at StonyBrook are ricers?
> http://www.ecsl.cs.sunysb.edu/fir/
>
> Not to mention these folks at Stanford,
> http://novembertech.blogspot.com/2006/10/stanford-atis-gpu-can-calculate-much.html
>
>
> And all of these scientists are ricers?
> http://gpgpu.org/
>
>
> I count myself proud to be among this company
> of "ricers" as you put it......
>
>
>
> James
>
>
>
>



--
Hazen Valliant-Saunders
IT/IS Consultant
(613) 355-5977
 
Old 02-04-2009, 03:20 PM
Grant Edwards
 
Default Gentoo's advantage: "optimized for your system" -- huh?

On 2009-02-04, James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> Paul Hartman <paul.hartman+gentoo <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>
>> >> One *BIG* difference is when the GPUs on video cards are used
>> >> as co-processors on systems. ATI and Nv are working on making
>> >> general purpose "C" languages for programs to take advantage
>> >> of the power of the GPU. Look for Gentoo to beat the other
>> >> distros, by the very nature of how it compiles code for
>> >> everything.
>
>
>> http://funroll-loops.info/
>
>
> According to your logic, Nvidia and ATI(AMD) are ricers....?
>
>
> http://developer.nvidia.com/object/cg_toolkit.html
> http://techreport.com/discussions.x/15886
>
> Or maybe the folks at CMU are ricers?
> http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~cil/v-source.html
>
> Surely these folks at StonyBrook are ricers?
> http://www.ecsl.cs.sunysb.edu/fir/
>
> Not to mention these folks at Stanford,
> http://novembertech.blogspot.com/2006/10/stanford-atis-gpu-can-calculate-much.html
>
>
> And all of these scientists are ricers?
> http://gpgpu.org/
>
>
> I count myself proud to be among this company
> of "ricers" as you put it......

And some of us count ourselves proud to be amongh the company
of people who have a sense of humor.....

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! This PIZZA symbolizes
at my COMPLETE EMOTIONAL
visi.com RECOVERY!!
 
Old 02-04-2009, 03:52 PM
James
 
Default Gentoo's advantage: "optimized for your system" -- huh?

Hazen Valliant-Saunders <hazenvs <at> gmail.com> writes:


> No they would never be useful for anything other then rendering
> bouncing bobbies!

Bouncing bobbies? Sound like a fraternity game for new recruits...



So Searching and Sorting, are documented to orders of magnitude
faster on GPU (SIMD) machines. Are those 'bouncing bobbies'
algorithms that form much of our software foundation?


common,

How could you look at video or play video games without the GPU.
It's opening up and going mainstream. Gentoo is naturally positioned
to be the distro of choice. Watch, wait and learn.



James
 
Old 02-04-2009, 06:27 PM
Paul Hartman
 
Default Gentoo's advantage: "optimized for your system" -- huh?

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 10:07 AM, James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> Paul Hartman <paul.hartman+gentoo <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>
>> >> One *BIG* difference is when the GPUs on video cards are used
>> >> as co-processors on systems. ATI and Nv are working on making
>> >> general purpose "C" languages for programs to take advantage
>> >> of the power of the GPU. Look for Gentoo to beat the other
>> >> distros, by the very nature of how it compiles code for
>> >> everything.
>
>
>> http://funroll-loops.info/
>
>
> According to your logic, Nvidia and ATI(AMD) are ricers....?
>
>
> http://developer.nvidia.com/object/cg_toolkit.html
> http://techreport.com/discussions.x/15886
>
> Or maybe the folks at CMU are ricers?
> http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~cil/v-source.html
>
> Surely these folks at StonyBrook are ricers?
> http://www.ecsl.cs.sunysb.edu/fir/
>
> Not to mention these folks at Stanford,
> http://novembertech.blogspot.com/2006/10/stanford-atis-gpu-can-calculate-much.html
>
>
> And all of these scientists are ricers?
> http://gpgpu.org/
>
>
> I count myself proud to be among this company
> of "ricers" as you put it......
>
>
>
> James

It's not my site... I was just putting it out there in case anyone
hadn't seen it before. It's oooooooooooold. I'm a happy Gentoo user
for many years.

Paul
 
Old 02-05-2009, 09:47 AM
Dirk Uys
 
Default Gentoo's advantage: "optimized for your system" -- huh?

On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Steven Lembark <lembark@wrkhors.com> wrote:
>
> How painful is it, really, to run the job when you
> are asleep or away from the machine? Cron the update
> or use "at" to get the changes you want when you are
> away from the console.
>

Not painful, uncomfortable: When I get back home my room will be hot
and the current build would probably fail again on
kde-base/systemsettings

Regards
Dirk
 
Old 02-05-2009, 05:52 PM
Mark Knecht
 
Default Gentoo's advantage: "optimized for your system" -- huh?

On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de> wrote:
> Stroller wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>> To be honest, I am surprised this notion of "optimised executables" has
>> stuck around long enough that you've heard it, but it's an old joke to many
>> of us who were around in 2004.
>
> But AFAIK, it *was* faster because Gentoo used the egcs fork of GCC which
> did produce faster code. This was probably the origin of the "Gentoo
> performance" thingy. It was true. Wikipedia also notes this, and further
> states that the name "Gentoo" was chosen (previously it was "Enoch") because
> of this speed difference between Gentoo and other Distros ("the Gentoo
> species is the fastest swimming penguin").
>
> Soon after though, egcs merged back to gcc and all other distros became just
> as fast. So "it was good while it lasted". But this "Gentoo performance"
> cliché seems to stick around till today.
>

The power of good marketing! ;-)

- Mark
 

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