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Old 09-16-2008, 09:20 PM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:14:10 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > I don't think it was ever discussed as anything but an option, but I
> > could be even more confused than you...
>
> You, more confused than I?
>
> No, my friend. That is unpossible.

In the spirit of list harmony, I shall agree with you

--
Neil Bothwick

A computer program does what you tell it to do, not what you want it to do.
 
Old 09-17-2008, 12:54 AM
Dale
 
Default I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

Alan McKinnon wrote:

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 20:43:06 Dale wrote:


I have used --skipfirst before but I also don't think it is a good
idea. For a idiot like me to say that must mean something. I guess it
would depend on the package as to whether it could be skipped or not.
If I do a emerge -e world, I prefer nothing to fail else what is the point?



Sometimes stuff does fail - you can't fully know beforehand if an ebuild will
succeed or not. --skipfirst is perfectly safe if you have looked at the
package list and know that there's no dependency issues. The danger is
blindly resuming without understanding the consequences.


For example, lets assume there's a package called alan-fonts-meta which
depends on 20 fancy wingding-type fonts. Lets also assume that I was a dork
when coding one font ebuild at 4am and botched the SRC_URI. That ebuild will
fail, but you know for sure that you can safely --resume --skipfirst
(followed by a scathing email with a blunt instrument as payload).


Other examples exist. OTOH, if the expat upgrade of some months ago failed, a
blind resume would likely have caused endless troubles.





That was my point in a round about way. If you don't know, don't use
--skipfirst since it could mess up some stuff and turn your puter into a
mess after logging out or a reboot. I'm thinking some of the more
serious system packages with that.


Me, I don't even claim to know so I either ask or fix what borked. LOL

Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 09-17-2008, 08:01 AM
Vaeth
 
Default I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008, Stroller wrote:
>
> The risk is that you want to install X that depends upon Y.
>
> The ebuild for X states that version >1.2.3 of Y must be used because
> there's a bug in 1.2.2.
>
> The new version of Y fails to compile, so when X is compiled it only
> has the old version of Y to work with. It may compile OK but not work
> or feature a security bug.

That's not the real risk: Since any sane user will of course check which
packages have failed and make sure that the upgraded version will be
installed, this will not leave you with an inconsistent system
(the next emerge -NaDu world - which of course also any sane user would
do afterwards - would even tell you the problem, and in case of an ABI
change you would be informed by revdep-rebuild).
The only case I can think of where _really_ problems might arise is the
(very rare) situation which I had described: That the ./configure script
of X builds X without errors but also without support for Y if only 1.2.2
of Y is installed:
Then neither later upgrading of Y nor revdep-rebuild will show anything
suspicious, although X does not behave in the intended way.
 
Old 09-17-2008, 08:26 AM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

On Wednesday 17 September 2008 10:01:43 Vaeth wrote:
> > The new version of Y fails to compile, so when X is compiled it only
> > has the old version of Y to work with. It may compile OK but not work
> > or feature a security bug.
>
> That's not the real risk: Since any sane user will of course check

Obviously, you deal with a completely different class of user to what I have
to deal with....

--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
 
Old 09-18-2008, 01:24 AM
"b.n."
 
Default I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

Vaeth ha scritto:

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008, Stroller wrote:

The risk is that you want to install X that depends upon Y.

The ebuild for X states that version >1.2.3 of Y must be used because
there's a bug in 1.2.2.

The new version of Y fails to compile, so when X is compiled it only
has the old version of Y to work with. It may compile OK but not work
or feature a security bug.


That's not the real risk: Since any sane user will of course check which
packages have failed and make sure that the upgraded version will be
installed, this will not leave you with an inconsistent system
(the next emerge -NaDu world - which of course also any sane user would
do afterwards - would even tell you the problem, and in case of an ABI
change you would be informed by revdep-rebuild).


Well, that's exactly the point where ciaranm and others accused r0bertz
(and implicitly me, usually doing the same) of being... well, the title
of my original post is clear.


"(mlangc) if your "update" script leaves your system unusable you would
not even have a clue what went wrong ....

[...]
(zhllg) mlangc, i can find which packages are broken
(zhllg) just run emerge -tavuDN world again immediately after running
that script

[...]
(ciaranm) idiot is too mild a term for this one"

Harsh tones/awkward social skills apart , the guys seem to imply this
kind of check is not enough.




The only case I can think of where _really_ problems might arise is the
(very rare) situation which I had described: That the ./configure script
of X builds X without errors but also without support for Y if only 1.2.2
of Y is installed:
Then neither later upgrading of Y nor revdep-rebuild will show anything
suspicious, although X does not behave in the intended way.


Very clear, thanks.
This is, technically, a bug in the ./configure ,however, isn't it?

m.
 
Old 09-18-2008, 07:08 AM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default I am a "f*****g retard". Can you help me?

On Thursday 18 September 2008 03:24:47 b.n. wrote:
> > The only case I can think of where _really_ problems might arise is the
> > (very rare) situation which I had described: That the ./configure script
> > of X builds X without errors but also without support for Y if only 1.2.2
> > of Y is installed:
> > Then neither later upgrading of Y nor revdep-rebuild will show anything
> > suspicious, although X does not behave in the intended way.
>
> Very clear, thanks.
> This is, technically, a bug in the ./configure ,however, isn't it?

That's my thinking too. The correct action would be to patch the ./configure
and submit the patches upstream so everyone benefits. But it's not always so
easy.

For example, I build e17 from svn and keep my own custom overlay for it. Most
packages have --enable- options but some features are automagically detected
at configure time, which leads to the exact problem described above, and it
has happened to me. So it's not a theoretical possibility but a real (albeit
rare) one.

--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com


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To: ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Subject: Re: ubuntu and music
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:19:14 +0100
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Ol=C3=A1 Neil e a todos.

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 14:03:47 Neil wrote:
> Usually it takes a while before the last version of Wine has reached
> the Ubuntu repositories. You might want to add the Wine repositories @
> http://www.winehq.org/site/download-deb to stay up to date if it is
> this important to you.

This is FUD. Really stop it, if you dont know what you are talking about.

Scott Ritchie has been making a WONDERFUL job by packing any version (or pa=
tch) of wine to most of Ubuntu versions, as soon as they came out, and maki=
ng them FULLY compatible with Ubuntu system policies.
Wine repo cant do that.
So please just use the Ubuntu version, that you are going to get very well =
served.


=46YI the latest version available is 1.0.0-1ubuntu10.

=2D-=20
BUGabundo )
(``-_-=C2=B4=C2=B4) http://LinuxNoDEI.BUGabundo.net
Linux user #443786 GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB
My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net
ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance.=
I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by...

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Ol=C3=A1 Osman e a todos.

On Monday 15 September 2008 22:05:55 Osman Kemal Kadiro=C4=9Flu wrote:
> I just deleted a large directory while using Dolphine file manager (Kubun=
tu
> 8.04 KDE4) and then emptied the waste basket. How can I get the director=
y back?

Google for PhotoRec.
It aupports many OSs and Filesystems.
I've recovered a full 200GiBs of an HD, and recently even a Memory Card.

=2D-=20
BUGabundo )
(``-_-=C2=B4=C2=B4) http://LinuxNoDEI.BUGabundo.net
Linux user #443786 GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB
My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net
ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance.=
I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by...

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