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Old 09-16-2008, 11:27 PM
"b.n."
 
Default A plea for calm

David Leverton ha scritto:

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 23:53:20 b.n. wrote:

David Leverton ha scritto:

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 23:18:42 b.n. wrote:

I am not going to do it because of the treatment I'd be reserved by
people like ciaranm, or you, if I only needed help or disagreed with
your opinions.

What on Earth makes you think that?

Your behaviour.


Towards people who only need help or disagree (rationally) with my opinions?
Such as?



The IRC log posted on the r0bertz blog.


Don't do something so draw-droppingly idiotic if you don't want to receive the
appropriate reaction.


The reaction is not appropriate.
The behaviour could be due to simple ignorance, instead of idiocy.
If he *knew* it was idiotic, he *would not* have done it, isn't it?
Or didn't you think about that?
Are maybe you -God forbid!- an idiot too?

In any case, even if r0bertz is a clueless idiot, the only sane approach
is even in this case to calmly and rationally explain (or providing
links to information) why what he was doing was, in your opinion, wrong.


That's for example what I am doing with you, even if you are quite
jaw-droppingly too, outside a system administration context.


You see: it's called "Dealing With People". It's a different software
from Portage or Paludis, but you should try it nonetheless.



This is paranoid behaviour.
To think that there is a "hate campaign" about your little software is
utterly paranoid.


It's not paranoid, it's true. I've seen it.


Pretty unfortunately, that's what every paranoid would say.

Until I will see anti-paludis campaigns in the streets, sorry, it's just
paranoia. You see people disagreeing (very wholeheartedly) with you, and
instead of accepting that, you build the delusion of a conspiracy.


It's a well known, quite common psychological mechanism.

Of course you are free to give me the URLs of angry anti-paludis
websites, the menacing private mails you received, etc. and convince me
I am wrong.



Actually, I'm pretty sure >99.999% of world population just doesn't care
about your software.


Perhaps, but some of the people who do care care in a rather malicious way.


And, sir, what would the aim of those people be? What advantage they
have from maliciously and viciously crushing Paludis? Will they become
richer? More powerful? Or it's for the women?


You see, you happily give "idiocy" tags to people, yet you seem to
believe things that have no rational justification at all. Maybe you
should think twice.



Moreover, as I told you some time ago, the only way to shut up lies is
*facts*. In software, facts means code.


As I told you some time ago, these people don't care about code.


They care about code, and they care about your public behaviour. Even if
they spread lies about your code because they want the Crystal Skull
from the Paludis Shrine, well, you do not have to convince them.


You have to convince everyone else.

And you are not doing that. Trying to win on Volker, you are losing with
everyone else.
But at this point I don't think you will understand that -you're too
busy not being an "idiot" when talking about package management, yet
being somehow not as clever when dealing with human beings.


m.
 
Old 09-17-2008, 12:16 AM
"b.n."
 
Default A plea for calm

David Leverton ha scritto:

On Wednesday 17 September 2008 00:27:54 b.n. wrote:

If he *knew* it was idiotic, he *would not* have done it, isn't it?


That's his problem.


No, that's *your* problem now, because you and your accolites now look
like a bunch of arrogant a**holes, instead of helpful people.


You did a wonderfully awful PR job.

If your aim is Paludis success or even thriving, you are failing in one
of the most ridicolous ways possible.
(And if your aim is not Paludis success, why do you care about people
spreading "lies" on that project?)



Until I will see anti-paludis campaigns in the streets, sorry, it's just
paranoia.


That seems like a rather arbitrary restriction. As you said, most people in
the world don't care about anything Gentoo-related, so campaigning in the
streets seems rather unlikely,


That was of course an hyperbole.

I asked instead seriously for facts about such "campaign". URLs of
websites dedicated against Paludis, menacing mails, personal attacks,
whatever. I am still waiting for evidence of this mysterious conspiracy.


but that's no excuse for spreading lies
amongst the subset of people who do care.


I will believe these are lies when I will see facts backing your
assertions. Until that, I am neutral on both sides.



And, sir, what would the aim of those people be? What advantage they
have from maliciously and viciously crushing Paludis? Will they become
richer? More powerful? Or it's for the women?


My theory is that they're scared. Or it could just be because they enjoy
hurting other people.


Scared of what? Of you? My theory is that you have no clue: and that's
obvious, since you can't rationalize fully what is simply a reassuring
delusion.



And you are not doing that. Trying to win on Volker, you are losing with
everyone else.


Only the irrational ones.


And if you care only about rational ones, well:
- if these are lies, rational people will look at facts for themselves
and will stay on the rational side. So why caring at Volker's lies?
- irrational people will believe to lies, but you don't care of
irrational people, so, why bothering again?


So, how is you are rational?
 
Old 09-17-2008, 06:30 AM
David Leverton
 
Default A plea for calm

On Wednesday 17 September 2008 01:16:06 b.n. wrote:
> No, that's *your* problem now, because you and your accolites now look
> like a bunch of arrogant a**holes, instead of helpful people.

If that helps drive away idiots, then fine. Non-idiots won't use that as a
reason to use or not to use the software.

> I asked instead seriously for facts about such "campaign". URLs of
> websites dedicated against Paludis, menacing mails, personal attacks,
> whatever. I am still waiting for evidence of this mysterious conspiracy.

For personal attacks, see anything written by Volker and his buddies about
Paludis on the mailing lists or forums. There is at least one website, but
posting it will only encourage them.

> Scared of what?

Scared that people might want to use Paludis instead of their precious Portage
or Pkgcore.

> - if these are lies, rational people will look at facts for themselves
> and will stay on the rational side. So why caring at Volker's lies?

Because allowing him to viciously attack us over, and over, and over, and
over, and over again is not acceptable.
 
Old 09-17-2008, 06:31 AM
"Kent Fredric"
 
Default A plea for calm

On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 9:05 AM, David Leverton <levertond@googlemail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 22:14:47 b.n. wrote:

> Frankly, the more you challenge him this mindless way, the more I

> believe him.



If you think in such backwards logic then I don't care who you believe.




A apologize in advance if this assessment may* be under/over stating something, I've not really taken part of this discussion, and don't really care of what the outcome is, I'll keep using my ${choice}, if ${choice} goes away ill go back and fork ${choice} to bring it back.* But you do appear to be going out of your way to cause unwanted flame wars.* ( I'm being the ultra fool by joining in the fray here ).*


It would be nice if this bonfire could settle, and I'll request so by mocking myself and all amateur geekdom at once with
"liek, omg gaiz. chi11!!!!"

Cheers.

Can we all kiss and make up now?

--
Kent
ruby -e '[1, 2, 4, 7, 0, 9, 5, 8, 3, 10, 11, 6, 12, 13].each{|x|
print "enNOSPicAMreil kdrtf@gma.com"[(2*x)..(2*x+1)]}'
 
Old 09-17-2008, 08:44 AM
Dale
 
Default A plea for calm

David Leverton wrote:



Because allowing him to viciously attack us over, and over, and over, and
over, and over again is not acceptable.






I have been trying to bite my tongue but I have to ask this. Is what
you are doing any better? It's not something I want a answer to either
because to be honest, I don't care who is lying and who is not. I don't
care if any other package manager is better or not either. I would just
like to see the mud slinging stop.


Please.

Dale

:-) :-)
 

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