Am Sonntag, 14. September 2008 22:37:21 schrieb Volker Armin Hemmann:

> Oh, does paludis support and equivalent to 'keep-going' or
> '--ignore-failures'

Yes.

Bye...

Dirk

On Sunday 14 September 2008 21:37:21 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> On Sunday 14 September 2008, David Leverton wrote:
> > On Sunday 14 September 2008 19:28:28 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > > because not everybody wants to install that bloated thing
> >
> > Not bloated.
>
> I am sorry:
> extremly bloated.

I see you're still as good at logic as ever.

> > > watch it devour config files
> >
> > Lies.
>
> oh really? what happens when you forget the 'portage' useflag? Hm?

It installs without support for reading Portage configuration files, in the
same way that almost everything else in the tree doesn't support Portage
configuration files. You surely wouldn't say that any of those "devour
config files" (at least not for that reason), so why do you say it about
Paludis?

> > > and be insulted by the troll-brigade.
> >
> > The only people who get insulted are those who repeatedly and
> > deliberately spread vicious lies, FUD and personal attacks.
>
> oh really? There are enough examples of troll behaviour. Starting with
> Ciaranm himself. SPB and rbrown are good examples too.

Again, lies and personal attacks.

> > > Making the 'official' overlay paludis-only was a BIG mistake.
> >
> > It's not "paludis-only", it will work with any package manager whose
> > developers care enough to support the useful features of the kdebuild-1
> > EAPI.
>
> and that was an official api? Yes? No?

Irrelevant.

> Was it needed? No - proven by kdesvn-portage

I didn't say it was needed. I said it was useful enough that the genkdesvn
team decided that, in their opinion, the benefits outweighed the drawbacks.
Other people obviously had different priorities, and so they produced
something that suited their needs better.

> > > And as kdesvn-portage shows - it was unneeded.
> >
> > "Unneeded" is a funny word. You don't "need" ebuilds at all, but that
> > doesn't mean they're not useful.
>
> unneeded is the correct choice of words.

It is, in the sense that it's not false, but the inferences that you draw from
it are spectacularly wrong.

> That 'special feature that only paludis - and unoffical packet manager
> developed by a dev team which has a very high 'forcefully retired' content

Personal attacks etc. Just because Gentoo was forced to choose between
retiring some developers and losing a sponsor doesn't mean that anything
those developers ever worked on is evil.

> was not needed - as shown by kdesvn-portage.

You consistently demonstrate a complete failure to comprehend anything in my
post.

> > > Just another little trick by the paludis-group
> >
> > The KDE overlay isn't produced by the "paludis-group".
>
> no, it was just made by vivid paludis fans. Hey, lets make an overlay a lot
> of user want - and make it paludis only. That way we can push paludis!

No, "That way we can use useful features that have been supported in Paludis
for months if not years, instead of having to work around Portage's
limitations!"

> which one? Which features 'benefit both users and developers' and are sooo
> important that the kde overlay had to be paludis only?
>
> Name them please.

USE deps are the main one. Yes, Portage supports them now, but it didn't at
the time, and no-one expected that it would within a reasonable time period.
Suggested deps are another nice one. You can read the details of the rest in
PMS.

> Oh, does paludis support and equivalent to 'keep-going' or
> '--ignore-failures'

Read the documentation.

> or are people who wants this extremly usefull features still attacked and
> insulted?

No-one has been attacked and insulted for wanting extremely useful features.

On Sunday 14 September 2008 21:39:39 Mariusz Przygodzki wrote:
> That's simple
> The mentioned quotation is an accurate conclusion

That phrase does not make sense.

> of discussion about "why Gentoo users shoud use paludis to install
> and test KDE4 desktop efficiently ?".

That quotation is not in any way relevant to anything involving Gentoo.


Mon Sep 15 00:30:01 2008
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On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 10:55 PM, David Leverton
<levertond@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday 14 September 2008 21:39:39 Mariusz Przygodzki wrote:
>> That's simple
>> The mentioned quotation is an accurate conclusion
>
> That phrase does not make sense.
>
>> of discussion about "why Gentoo users shoud use paludis to install
>> and test KDE4 desktop efficiently ?".
>
> That quotation is not in any way relevant to anything involving Gentoo.

You has just confirmed again your attitude towards Gentoo users who
want to use KDE4.
Bye

On Sunday 14 September 2008 22:02:08 Mariusz Przygodzki wrote:
> You has just confirmed again your attitude towards Gentoo users who
> want to use KDE4.

Er, I have no attitude, either positive or negative, towards Gentoo users who
want to use KDE 4. Kindly explain what the hell you're talking about, or, as
I said earlier, I'll be forced to assume that you're a troll spreading
personal attacks.

On Sunday 14 September 2008 21:11:18 b.n. wrote:
> Mariusz Przygodzki ha scritto:
> > On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 7:41 PM, b.n. <brullonulla@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Mariusz Przygodzki ha scritto:
> >>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Erik Hahn <ng.ehahn@gmx.de> wrote:
> >>>>> If only 4.1.1 was there... :')
> >>>>
> >>>> You know, there's an overlay...
> >>>
> >>> But unfortunately it requires plaudis ...
> >>
> >> At what point "stabilization" of KDE 4 is?
> >
> > None. It was about "availability", not "stabilization".
>
> Don't understand. But probably I wasn't making myself clear at all
>
> What I mean is, for people that do not want to mess with overlays, at
> what point is kde 4 on the path towards being x86 stable? Any news?

You'll have a long wait for that. The KDE devs are talking about 4.2 being
useable by regular users. 4.1.1 is ~amd64 and ~x86 in the overlay and nothing
has hit the official tree yet.

I have no idea when KDE4 will go stable, and I doubt anyone else does either -
it's a very volatile thing - but I think I'm quite safe in guessing that it
won't happen before 4.2 and not before early next year.



--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

On Sunday 14 September 2008 21:35:08 David Leverton wrote:
> On Sunday 14 September 2008 20:27:52 Mariusz Przygodzki wrote:
> > Maybe "they" were waiting so many years because "they" have never
> > asked users about what users really need and think about it.
>
> What?
>
> > "It's not that we hate you (unless we do). It's just that we have
> > nothing to offer you, and you have nothing to offer us."
>
> Since that has absolutely nothing do to with the topic of discussion, or
> indeed anything Gentoo-related, your quoting of it at me can only be
> considered a personal attack.

It's also not even a quote from the paludis devs. It's something Ciaran put on
a web page about a *highly*experimental* new distro - basically a fork of
gentoo ideas that he and his pals could fool around with

--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

On Sunday 14 September 2008, David Leverton wrote:
> On Sunday 14 September 2008 21:37:21 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > On Sunday 14 September 2008, David Leverton wrote:
> > > On Sunday 14 September 2008 19:28:28 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > > > because not everybody wants to install that bloated thing
> > >
> > > Not bloated.
> >
> > I am sorry:
> > extremly bloated.
>
> I see you're still as good at logic as ever.
>
> > > > watch it devour config files
> > >
> > > Lies.
> >
> > oh really? what happens when you forget the 'portage' useflag? Hm?
>
> It installs without support for reading Portage configuration files, in the
> same way that almost everything else in the tree doesn't support Portage
> configuration files. You surely wouldn't say that any of those "devour
> config files" (at least not for that reason), so why do you say it about
> Paludis?
>
> > > > and be insulted by the troll-brigade.
> > >
> > > The only people who get insulted are those who repeatedly and
> > > deliberately spread vicious lies, FUD and personal attacks.
> >
> > oh really? There are enough examples of troll behaviour. Starting with
> > Ciaranm himself. SPB and rbrown are good examples too.
>
> Again, lies and personal attacks.

yeah, sure. But no. Not lies. Or why were this guys forcefully retired? For
their behaviour.

Also:
http://r0bertz.blogspot.com/2007/01/be-careful-when-you-are-on-paludis.html

> > and that was an official api? Yes? No?
>
> Irrelevant.

no, not irrelevant but the beef of the story.

> Personal attacks etc. Just because Gentoo was forced to choose between
> retiring some developers and losing a sponsor doesn't mean that anything
> those developers ever worked on is evil.

no, it just makes you think if you should really use a piece of software whose
makers will insult and ridicule you.

On Sunday 14 September 2008 22:38:42 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> yeah, sure. But no. Not lies. Or why were this guys forcefully retired? For
> their behaviour.

No, to prevent Gentoo from losing a major sponsor.

> Also:
> http://r0bertz.blogspot.com/2007/01/be-careful-when-you-are-on-paludis.html

Idiot does something idiotic and is called "idiot". Film at 11.

> > > and that was an official api? Yes? No?
> >
> > Irrelevant.
>
> no, not irrelevant but the beef of the story.

So your bureaucratic little rules about what's "official" and what isn't are
more important than what's actually useful?

> > Personal attacks etc. Just because Gentoo was forced to choose between
> > retiring some developers and losing a sponsor doesn't mean that anything
> > those developers ever worked on is evil.
>
> no, it just makes you think if you should really use a piece of software
> whose makers will insult and ridicule you.

If anyone likes to "insult and ridicule" Paludis users, it's not the Paludis
developers.

On Sunday 14 September 2008, David Leverton wrote:
> On Sunday 14 September 2008 22:38:42 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > yeah, sure. But no. Not lies. Or why were this guys forcefully retired?
> > For their behaviour.
>
> No, to prevent Gentoo from losing a major sponsor.
>
> > Also:
> > http://r0bertz.blogspot.com/2007/01/be-careful-when-you-are-on-paludis.ht
> >ml
>
> Idiot does something idiotic and is called "idiot". Film at 11.

he asked for a feature. Nothing else. Oh, wait, that is r0bertz - a fellow
dev!

>
> > > > and that was an official api? Yes? No?
> > >
> > > Irrelevant.
> >
> > no, not irrelevant but the beef of the story.
>
> So your bureaucratic little rules about what's "official" and what isn't
> are more important than what's actually useful?

lets see - an overlay is setup to develop and test ebuilds for KDE4 that
should some day go into the tree.

Deciding to use a feature that the official pm does not provide - and only one
of the three makes the 'testing' part and 'for the tree' pretty superfluos.

> > no, it just makes you think if you should really use a piece of software
> > whose makers will insult and ridicule you.
>
> If anyone likes to "insult and ridicule" Paludis users, it's not the
> Paludis developers.

no, they like to insult everybody no matter what they use - right?