FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Gentoo > Gentoo User

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 08-28-2008, 03:39 PM
BRM
 
Default KDE 4.1...

I have been trying to hold out for KDE 4.1 entering the main gentoo portage tree, and some kind of announcement on the list; however, I haven't seen any and it's been a while since KDE 4.1 was released...(longer I think than it took for KDE 4.0.1 to get into the main portage tree.)

I am not one for wanting to try doing the overlay's yet, so I have been waiting for it to enter the main portage. I haven't even seen it in as a hard mask yet.
So, I just wanted to check to see if there was any known timeline for when KDE 4.1 might enter the main portage tree, when might it go to the testing branch?

I'd very much like to try it out when it gets to testing; and just wanted to get an idea of how long I might still need to wait. (As I said, I'm not quite up to using the overlay trees yet, of which I've seen a lot of activity regarding KDE 4.1 per the user's and AMD64 lists.)

Any how...just curious when it will come.

Thanks,

Ben
 
Old 08-28-2008, 03:56 PM
Andrew Gaydenko
 
Default KDE 4.1...

======= On Thursday 28 August 2008, BRM wrote: =======
> I have been trying to hold out for KDE 4.1 entering the main gentoo
> portage tree, and some kind of announcement on the list; however, I
> haven't seen any and it's been a while since KDE 4.1 was
> released...(longer I think than it took for KDE 4.0.1 to get into the
> main portage tree.)
>
> I am not one for wanting to try doing the overlay's yet, so I have been
> waiting for it to enter the main portage. I haven't even seen it in as a
> hard mask yet. So, I just wanted to check to see if there was any known
> timeline for when KDE 4.1 might enter the main portage tree, when might
> it go to the testing branch?
>
> I'd very much like to try it out when it gets to testing; and just wanted
> to get an idea of how long I might still need to wait. (As I said, I'm
> not quite up to using the overlay trees yet, of which I've seen a lot of
> activity regarding KDE 4.1 per the user's and AMD64 lists.)
>
> Any how...just curious when it will come.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ben

Ben, sorry, my question is OT wrt your message.

Are there indeed good things (I don't mean ruches and flowers) in KDE4 to
worry about them at all? Reading all those KDE4 reviews I really can not
understand why KDE4 may be more useful for me rather KDE3.


Andrew
 
Old 08-28-2008, 05:09 PM
James
 
Default KDE 4.1...

Andrew Gaydenko <a <at> gaydenko.com> writes:


> > I have been trying to hold out for KDE 4.1 entering the main gentoo
> > portage tree, and some kind of announcement on the list;

YES many of us await a tree release of KDE 4.


> Are there indeed good things (I don't mean ruches and flowers) in KDE4 to
> worry about them at all? Reading all those KDE4 reviews I really can not
> understand why KDE4 may be more useful for me rather KDE3.


Not a single thing, the KDE is just release KDE 4 to keep up with the
Jones......(sarcasm)

Are you kidding? Whom among us using kde has not had problem with kde3?

ARTS is my latest ugly kde issue (even though it may still exist in kde 4).

From the kde.org website:
"KDE 4.1 is the first KDE4 release to contain the Personal Information
Management suite KDE-PIM

Like with our previous release much time has been devoted to improving the
framework and underlying libraries on which KDE is built."

I've read several places that KDE 4 will be used on the (tentative)
September release of the Gentoo liveCD.

Maybe that's our clue as to when to expect some version of kde 4
in the portage tree (stable or testing)?


Lots of folks feel your pain for KDE 4....

hth,

James
 
Old 08-28-2008, 05:29 PM
Philip Webb
 
Default KDE 4.1...

080828 Andrew Gaydenko wrote:
> 080828 BRM wrote:
>> I have been trying to hold out for KDE 4.1 entering the Gentoo tree
>> and some kind of announcement on the list; is there any known timeline
>> for when KDE 4.1 might go to the testing branch?

I too am waiting to see KDE 4.1 appear in the testing list.
The KDE devs are always short-staffed, so let's give them a big cheer,
but a few words of their plans would help KDE users (smile).

> Reading all those KDE4 reviews I really can not understand
> why KDE4 may be more useful for me rather KDE3.

My estimate (also based on reading & screenshots) is
that it is 60 % eye candy, 30 % hype & 10 % useful improvements:
the basic motivation is to make it work well with Qt 4 .
Dolphin is offered as a simpler alternative to Konqueror file-management,
but I use CLI everyday with Krusader for heavy lifting occasionally
(I also have Vifm installed, but have little actual use for it);
Gwenview apparently has an improved interface; however,
the Kicker panel (renamed) is still not fully configurable.

Otherwise, KDE 3.5.10 was announced yesterday.

--
========================,,======================== ====================
SUPPORT ___________//___, Philip Webb
ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT `-O----------O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
 
Old 08-28-2008, 06:34 PM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default KDE 4.1...

On Thursday 28 August 2008 17:56:37 Andrew Gaydenko wrote:
> Ben, sorry, my question is OT wrt your message.
>
> Are there indeed good things (I don't mean ruches and flowers) in KDE4 to
> worry about them at all? Reading all those KDE4 reviews I really can not
> understand why KDE4 may be more useful for me rather KDE3.

Don't even bother trying KDE4 if you have a recent nVidia card. Performance is
atrocious as KDE4 uses acceleration effects in plasma etc that nVidia didn't
account for in their driver, with the results that significant amounts of
rendering are done using a software path (i.e. not in hardware), which is very
slow.

There also doesn't appear to be any quick fix coming anytime soon.

--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
 
Old 08-28-2008, 06:37 PM
Roy Wright
 
Default KDE 4.1...

Philip Webb wrote:
> 080828 Andrew Gaydenko wrote:
>> 080828 BRM wrote:
>> Reading all those KDE4 reviews I really can not understand
>> why KDE4 may be more useful for me rather KDE3.
>
> My estimate (also based on reading & screenshots) is
> that it is 60 % eye candy, 30 % hype & 10 % useful improvements:
> the basic motivation is to make it work well with Qt 4 .
> Dolphin is offered as a simpler alternative to Konqueror file-management,

And if I understand correctly, then main reason for Qt 4 is that KDE
apps should then be able to run on other OSes (read that as windoze).

I tried Dolphin on a Kubuntu system, IMO it is a giant step backwards
from Konqueror (ex, no fish://).

Also from what I gather KDE 4.1 is another developer release with 4.2
target as the first user (usable?) release.

On the plus side, the synergy of KDE4 apps is improved (example, common
address book) so we can look forward to a smoother user experience.

On the negative side, the nvidia binary drivers still have major
performance issues with KDE4. This is a show stopper for me. If nvidia
does not fix their drivers by KDE 4.2, I'll have to replace video
cards... Of course that assumes nvidia is still around after their
packaging fiasco.
 
Old 08-28-2008, 06:44 PM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default KDE 4.1...

On Thursday 28 August 2008 19:29:28 Philip Webb wrote:
> > Reading all those KDE4 reviews I really can not understand
> > why KDE4 may be more useful for me rather KDE3.
>
> My estimate (also based on reading & screenshots) is
> that it is *60 % *eye candy, *30 % *hype & *10 % *useful improvements:
> the basic motivation is to make it work well with Qt 4 .

To be fair to the KDE devs, KDE4 is not meant to be a replacement for KDE3, or
even a natural evolution of it. It's a break with the past and a trip down a
new road in interface design. The code that has been put there forms a
framework to make new stuff possible in the future, and that new stuff is
intended to be very different from the usual computer desktop that is pretty
much unchained since Xerox designed it 30 odd years ago. The eye-candy IS eye-
candy, but it's eye-candy with a purpose and has not been done for the sake of
mere bling and keeping up with the Joneses using compiz.

But these new cool changes have not been written yet. Only the framework that
will make them possible has been written. The apps that have been ported are
by and large the existing 3.5 apps and work pretty much the same way, just as
a start to get KDE4 into use.

So KDE4 falls very short of being a fully usable desktop, so much so that if
anyone wants the functionality of KDE-3.5, then they should stick with that
branch. As traditional desktops go, there's nothing wrong with it, and it is
still actively maintained.

--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
 
Old 08-28-2008, 07:03 PM
Volker Armin Hemmann
 
Default KDE 4.1...

On Donnerstag, 28. August 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Thursday 28 August 2008 17:56:37 Andrew Gaydenko wrote:
> > Ben, sorry, my question is OT wrt your message.
> >
> > Are there indeed good things (I don't mean ruches and flowers) in KDE4 to
> > worry about them at all? Reading all those KDE4 reviews I really can not
> > understand why KDE4 may be more useful for me rather KDE3.
>
> Don't even bother trying KDE4 if you have a recent nVidia card. Performance
> is atrocious as KDE4 uses acceleration effects in plasma etc that nVidia
> didn't account for in their driver, with the results that significant
> amounts of rendering are done using a software path (i.e. not in hardware),
> which is very slow.
>
> There also doesn't appear to be any quick fix coming anytime soon.

well, it was mostly fixed with their latest beta drivers.
 
Old 08-28-2008, 08:46 PM
Alan McKinnon
 
Default KDE 4.1...

On Thursday 28 August 2008 21:03:28 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> On Donnerstag, 28. August 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On Thursday 28 August 2008 17:56:37 Andrew Gaydenko wrote:
> > > Ben, sorry, my question is OT wrt your message.
> > >
> > > Are there indeed good things (I don't mean ruches and flowers) in KDE4
> > > to worry about them at all? Reading all those KDE4 reviews I really can
> > > not understand why KDE4 may be more useful for me rather KDE3.
> >
> > Don't even bother trying KDE4 if you have a recent nVidia card.
> > Performance is atrocious as KDE4 uses acceleration effects in plasma etc
> > that nVidia didn't account for in their driver, with the results that
> > significant amounts of rendering are done using a software path (i.e. not
> > in hardware), which is very slow.
> >
> > There also doesn't appear to be any quick fix coming anytime soon.
>
> well, it was mostly fixed with their latest beta drivers.

You mean 177.68 right?

It's far from fixed here. Admittedly better than 173.*, but the vast majority
of work remains to be done:

translucent menu paints very slow, 3 seconds+ and jerky.
Window resize slow, the content cannot keep up with a mere resize, a full
repaint takes about three seconds.
Window move is not perfect, but acceptable. The move motion is noticeably
jerky, but the rendering of content and repainting of unobscured content below
is fine.

This tells me that the actual problem, as defined by AaronP on nvnews.net[1]
is not being fixed in these releases, just worked around.

TwinView JustWorks(tm) - what a relief! I had images of yet another massive
debugging and config session when my boss proudly presented me with a brand
new 17" LCD. Apparently all the sysadmins get them, just because we can :-)

I'm noticing stability problems since using 177.67 - The GUI suddenly freezes
solid, gkrellm stops updating, no keyboard input but mouse motion does still
work. If I change to a virtual console and back to X, I get a black screen and
white pointer. Luckily, I can usually log in on a virtual console and SIGHUP
the window manager, this often fixes it. The only changes recently have been
to e17 and the nvidia driver. I'd be tempted to say my e17 from CVS is buggy,
but I get the exact same problem running KDE4, leaving the driver as the only
common change.

alan

[1] Essentially, that most drivers when compositing are optimized for window
resize in their use of video memory. nVidia instead built their stuff to
optimize the common case - window refresh and move. This has the side effect
of resizes falling back to a default (and excruciatingly slow) software code
path.

--
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
 
Old 08-28-2008, 09:25 PM
Volker Armin Hemmann
 
Default KDE 4.1...

On Donnerstag, 28. August 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Thursday 28 August 2008 21:03:28 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > On Donnerstag, 28. August 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > > On Thursday 28 August 2008 17:56:37 Andrew Gaydenko wrote:
> > > > Ben, sorry, my question is OT wrt your message.
> > > >
> > > > Are there indeed good things (I don't mean ruches and flowers) in
> > > > KDE4 to worry about them at all? Reading all those KDE4 reviews I
> > > > really can not understand why KDE4 may be more useful for me rather
> > > > KDE3.
> > >
> > > Don't even bother trying KDE4 if you have a recent nVidia card.
> > > Performance is atrocious as KDE4 uses acceleration effects in plasma
> > > etc that nVidia didn't account for in their driver, with the results
> > > that significant amounts of rendering are done using a software path
> > > (i.e. not in hardware), which is very slow.
> > >
> > > There also doesn't appear to be any quick fix coming anytime soon.
> >
> > well, it was mostly fixed with their latest beta drivers.
>
> You mean 177.68 right?
>
> It's far from fixed here. Admittedly better than 173.*, but the vast
> majority of work remains to be done:
>
> translucent menu paints very slow, 3 seconds+ and jerky.
> Window resize slow, the content cannot keep up with a mere resize, a full
> repaint takes about three seconds.
> Window move is not perfect, but acceptable. The move motion is noticeably
> jerky, but the rendering of content and repainting of unobscured content
> below is fine.
>
> This tells me that the actual problem, as defined by AaronP on
> nvnews.net[1] is not being fixed in these releases, just worked around.
>
> TwinView JustWorks(tm) - what a relief! I had images of yet another massive
> debugging and config session when my boss proudly presented me with a brand
> new 17" LCD. Apparently all the sysadmins get them, just because we can :-)
>
> I'm noticing stability problems since using 177.67 - The GUI suddenly
> freezes solid, gkrellm stops updating, no keyboard input but mouse motion
> does still work. If I change to a virtual console and back to X, I get a
> black screen and white pointer. Luckily, I can usually log in on a virtual
> console and SIGHUP the window manager, this often fixes it. The only
> changes recently have been to e17 and the nvidia driver. I'd be tempted to
> say my e17 from CVS is buggy, but I get the exact same problem running
> KDE4, leaving the driver as the only common change.
>
> alan
>
> [1] Essentially, that most drivers when compositing are optimized for
> window resize in their use of video memory. nVidia instead built their
> stuff to optimize the common case - window refresh and move. This has the
> side effect of resizes falling back to a default (and excruciatingly slow)
> software code path.

they released 177.70 today
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 02:00 PM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org