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Old 07-10-2008, 03:26 AM
Dale
 
Default tar and huge tarballs used for back-ups

Hi,

Thought I would move this problem to a new thread. It may not be
related to the DVD itself. This is what I am currently testing. I used
Kbackup to create a tarball in my /backup directory. I have the most
basic setup for Kbackup at the moment. It creates the tarball but does
not compress the files themselves but creates a .tar file. I think it
takes the files, places it in the tarball then compresses it or
something. I'm not real sure how Kbackup does its thing. I have it set
to create tarballs and the limit is 4.4Gbs. I set it just short of a
full 4.7Gb.


I then tried to untar the file to a directory to test if it will untar
it or not. It failed. I guess you figured that since I am posting this
problem. I'm just going to post info as I go along here. Feel free to
ask for more if you need something else. This is the files that Kbackup
generates:

-rw-r--r-- 1 dale users 4295682560 2008-07-09 20:15
Data_2008.07.09-20.11.01_1.tar
-rw-r--r-- 1 dale users 4295361024 2008-07-09 20:52
Data_2008.07.09-20.11.01_2.tar


This is what I get when I try to untar the #1 tarball:

root@smoker / # tar -xvf /backup/Data_2008.07.09-20.11.01_1.tar -C
/backup/test/

data/
data/322229.gif
data/Address-book-2006-12-27.ldif
data/alegis-group-sears8.21.03.sxw
data/bookmarks.html
data/Camera-pics/
data/Camera-pics/2006-Christmas/
data/Camera-pics/2006-Christmas/Christmas-0001.jpeg
tar: Skipping to next header
tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors
root@smoker / #

I did not shorten that. It is the whole thing. It did not do much and
that file is coming off the hard drive not a DVD. Also note, there is a
huge list of files that are missing from that tarball. Basically, that
tarball is about worthless. This is from the #2 tarball:


root@smoker / # tar -xvf /backup/Data_2008.07.09-20.11.01_2.tar -C
/backup/test/

data/Gentoo-stuff/livecd-i686-installer-2007.0.iso
tar: Skipping to next header
< SNIP a long list of files >
tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors
root@smoker / #

I didn't see any other errors in the looong list of files. Also, it did
untar a lot of files but I really don't know how to tell if it did them
all or not. It appears they are all there but I'm not 100% sure. It
certainly did better than the first tarball for sure.


Since I didn't use a DVD at all in this process, is this a Kbackup
problem or a tar problem? That is the only two programs I used so I
assume it would be one of those two. Also note, I use ext3 on that
partition. All my others are reiserfs but everything done was on ext3.


Other info that may matter:

[ebuild R ] app-cdr/cdrtools-2.01.01_alpha41 USE="unicode" 0 kB
[ebuild R ] app-cdr/cdrdao-1.2.2-r2 USE="encode -debug -gcdmaster
-pccts" 0 kB
[ebuild R ] app-cdr/k3b-1.0.5-r1 USE="alsa arts dvdr dvdread encode
hal mp3 vorbis -css -debug -emovix -ffmpeg -flac -musepack -musicbrainz
-sndfile -vcd -xinerama" LINGUAS="-af -ar -bg -br -bs -ca -cs -cy -da
-de -el -en_GB -es -et -eu -fa -fi -fr -ga -gl -he -hi -hu -is -it -ja
-ka -lt -mk -ms -nb -nds -nl -nn -pa -pl -pt -pt_BR -ru -rw -se -sk -sr
-sr@Latn -sv -ta -tr -uk -uz -zh_CN -zh_TW" 0 kB


root@smoker / # uname -r
2.6.23-gentoo-r8
root@smoker / #

That is the latest kernel that I can get to work correctly. 2.6.24-r8
makes KDE slow as leap year for some reason. No clue, just went back to
what worked for me.


Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions?

Thanks

Dale

:-) :-)
--

gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 07-10-2008, 05:47 AM
Daniel Iliev
 
Default tar and huge tarballs used for back-ups

On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 22:26:54 -0500
Dale <dalek1967@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Thought I would move this problem to a new thread. It may not be
> related to the DVD itself. This is what I am currently testing. I
> used Kbackup to create a tarball in my /backup directory. I have the
> most basic setup for Kbackup at the moment. It creates the tarball
> but does not compress the files themselves but creates a .tar file.
> I think it takes the files, places it in the tarball then compresses
> it or something. I'm not real sure how Kbackup does its thing. I
> have it set to create tarballs and the limit is 4.4Gbs. I set it
> just short of a full 4.7Gb.
>
> I then tried to untar the file to a directory to test if it will
> untar it or not. It failed. I guess you figured that since I am
> posting this problem. I'm just going to post info as I go along
> here. Feel free to ask for more if you need something else. This is
> the files that Kbackup generates:
>
> -rw-r--r-- 1 dale users 4295682560 2008-07-09 20:15
> Data_2008.07.09-20.11.01_1.tar
> -rw-r--r-- 1 dale users 4295361024 2008-07-09 20:52
> Data_2008.07.09-20.11.01_2.tar
>
> This is what I get when I try to untar the #1 tarball:
>
> root@smoker / # tar -xvf /backup/Data_2008.07.09-20.11.01_1.tar -C
> /backup/test/
> data/
> data/322229.gif
> data/Address-book-2006-12-27.ldif
> data/alegis-group-sears8.21.03.sxw
> data/bookmarks.html
> data/Camera-pics/
> data/Camera-pics/2006-Christmas/
> data/Camera-pics/2006-Christmas/Christmas-0001.jpeg
> tar: Skipping to next header
> tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors
> root@smoker / #
>
> I did not shorten that. It is the whole thing. It did not do much
> and that file is coming off the hard drive not a DVD. Also note,
> there is a huge list of files that are missing from that tarball.
> Basically, that tarball is about worthless. This is from the #2
> tarball:
>
> root@smoker / # tar -xvf /backup/Data_2008.07.09-20.11.01_2.tar -C
> /backup/test/
> data/Gentoo-stuff/livecd-i686-installer-2007.0.iso
> tar: Skipping to next header
> < SNIP a long list of files >
> tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors
> root@smoker / #
>
> I didn't see any other errors in the looong list of files. Also, it
> did untar a lot of files but I really don't know how to tell if it
> did them all or not. It appears they are all there but I'm not 100%
> sure. It certainly did better than the first tarball for sure.
>
> Since I didn't use a DVD at all in this process, is this a Kbackup
> problem or a tar problem? That is the only two programs I used so I
> assume it would be one of those two. Also note, I use ext3 on that
> partition. All my others are reiserfs but everything done was on
> ext3.
>
> Other info that may matter:
>
> [ebuild R ] app-cdr/cdrtools-2.01.01_alpha41 USE="unicode" 0 kB
> [ebuild R ] app-cdr/cdrdao-1.2.2-r2 USE="encode -debug
> -gcdmaster -pccts" 0 kB
> [ebuild R ] app-cdr/k3b-1.0.5-r1 USE="alsa arts dvdr dvdread
> encode hal mp3 vorbis -css -debug -emovix -ffmpeg -flac -musepack
> -musicbrainz -sndfile -vcd -xinerama" LINGUAS="-af -ar -bg -br -bs
> -ca -cs -cy -da -de -el -en_GB -es -et -eu -fa -fi -fr -ga -gl -he
> -hi -hu -is -it -ja -ka -lt -mk -ms -nb -nds -nl -nn -pa -pl -pt
> -pt_BR -ru -rw -se -sk -sr -sr@Latn -sv -ta -tr -uk -uz -zh_CN
> -zh_TW" 0 kB
>
> root@smoker / # uname -r
> 2.6.23-gentoo-r8
> root@smoker / #
>
> That is the latest kernel that I can get to work correctly.
> 2.6.24-r8 makes KDE slow as leap year for some reason. No clue, just
> went back to what worked for me.
>
> Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions?
>
> Thanks
>
> Dale
>
> :-) :-)


http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=44998


"NOTEue to a KDE3 limitation, it can only backup files each up to 4GB
in size (on 32bit platforms at least; therefore larger files are
skipped)"

If your platform happens to be a 32bit one...

Ah! One more thing. AFAIK Kbackup has nothing to do with GNU Tar. It
utilizes KDE's KTar class, so I wouldn't seek the problem in GNU Tar
(/bin/tar). Actually you can easyly make e test:

tar cpf my_huge_archive.tar --format=posix "/path/to/many/big/files"
tar xpf my_huge_archive.tar --format=posix -C "/path/to/test/dir/"

I bet it would work.

More info: http://www.gnu.org/software/tar/manual/html_section/Formats.html


--
Best regards,
Daniel
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 07-10-2008, 06:11 AM
Dale
 
Default tar and huge tarballs used for back-ups

Daniel Iliev wrote:



http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=44998


"NOTEue to a KDE3 limitation, it can only backup files each up to 4GB
in size (on 32bit platforms at least; therefore larger files are
skipped)"

If your platform happens to be a 32bit one...

Ah! One more thing. AFAIK Kbackup has nothing to do with GNU Tar. It
utilizes KDE's KTar class, so I wouldn't seek the problem in GNU Tar
(/bin/tar). Actually you can easyly make e test:

tar cpf my_huge_archive.tar --format=posix "/path/to/many/big/files"
tar xpf my_huge_archive.tar --format=posix -C "/path/to/test/dir/"

I bet it would work.

More info: http://www.gnu.org/software/tar/manual/html_section/Formats.html





Cool, thanks for that info. You want to hear something funny? In the
settings for Kbackup, it has a setting for 4.7Gb, 8.5Gb, 9.4Gb and
17.1Gb. Looks like it would disable/grey out the ones that don't work.
At least I know it is not me going crazy. o_O You're more than welcome
to keep wondering tho. LOL


I had no idea on what Kbackup used to create the tarball but I did
assume it used tar since it was a .tar file. Should have guessed KDE
would have a Ktar version though. :/


OK. Question. What is a good program that allows me to select certain
directories to backup and then create DVD slices that I can burn to DVD?
I prefer a GUI program if at all possible. I looked at the website for
reoback but not sure if it will do what I want to do either. I do system
backups but am more concerned about my data files.


Oh, I tried mondo-rescue before but it turned into a nightmare. Mostly
package version nightmare. I also think it was command line only.


Thanks for the link and info. At least I can keep it under 4Gb and make
backups.


Dale

:-) :-)
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list


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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Le 09.07.2008 23:23, Vassilios Kotoulas a =E9crit :
| On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 16:40 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
|
|> XFS has been deprecated and is not included in F9. You don't need it. =
If
|> you can't start xterm then your problem is something else.
|
| sure?

Sure! You need xfont server if you have some thin clients using xdmcp
for instance.

Your problem may come from somewhere else: how do you start the network?


- --
Fran=E7ois Patte
UFR de math=E9matiques et informatique
Universit=E9 Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints P=E8res
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
T=E9l. +33 (0)1 44 55 35 61
http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFIdaoNdE6C2dhV2JURAjDaAJ4oOmmuiJAVcLRAVX9KB+ b/coIhFQCg0woi
riQgKo+n4hvxw6Sq8ML1lh8=3D
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Old 07-10-2008, 08:46 AM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default tar and huge tarballs used for back-ups

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 01:11:29 -0500, Dale wrote:

> OK. Question. What is a good program that allows me to select certain
> directories to backup and then create DVD slices that I can burn to
> DVD?

Kdar.

Is there an echo in here? ;-)


--
Neil Bothwick

All things being equal, fat people use more soap.
 
Old 07-10-2008, 09:01 AM
 
Default tar and huge tarballs used for back-ups

Daniel Iliev <daniel.iliev@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Since I didn't use a DVD at all in this process, is this a Kbackup
> > problem or a tar problem? That is the only two programs I used so I
> > assume it would be one of those two. Also note, I use ext3 on that
> > partition. All my others are reiserfs but everything done was on
> > ext3.

From other hints, this seems to be a problem on both sides:

- The built in tar archiver is far too dumb and does not support
enough features for backups

- GNU tar often does not unpack POSIX compliant tar achives
and even sometimes has problems with it's own non-standard archives.

You may like to check the POSIX compliance of the tar archive you created to
verify at which side your problem is located:

- Fetch and install the latest star-1.5

ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/star

- call "tartest < test.tar" and read the messages.
See below.....


> "NOTEue to a KDE3 limitation, it can only backup files each up to 4GB
> in size (on 32bit platforms at least; therefore larger files are
> skipped)"

Note that tar in former times was a simple archive format (but this was in 1978).
Today, the tar archive format has become complex in order to be able to support
any extension and in order not to have limitations.

If you e.g. like to have support for files > 8 GB and don't like file name
length limitations, you need to use the POSIX.1-2001 version of the tar
standard.

Star is able to do this since the POSIX standard has been defined "stable" for
the tar part (in Summer 2001) and star is able to archive virtually any file
meta data (property) of any file. This is what you usually want for backups and
this is what you don't get from GNU tar and kbackup.


> Ah! One more thing. AFAIK Kbackup has nothing to do with GNU Tar. It
> utilizes KDE's KTar class, so I wouldn't seek the problem in GNU Tar
> (/bin/tar). Actually you can easyly make e test:

An important reason not to use kbackup.

Some examples:
/*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*/
gtar -cf - /etc/passwd | tartest
gtar: Removing leading `/' from member names
0.014r 0.000u 0.000s 0% 0M 0+0k 0st 0+0io 0pf+0w
tartest 1.10 (i386-pc-solaris2.11)

Copyright (C) 2002 Jörg Schilling
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO
warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

Testing for POSIX.1-1990 TAR compliance...
Warning: illegal character ' ' (0x20) found in field 't_magic[5]'
Warning: illegal character ' ' (0x20) found in field 't_version[0]'
Warning: illegal character '^@' (0x00) found in field 't_version[1]'
Warning: non octal character '^@' (0x00) found in field 't_devmajor[0]'
Warning: non octal character '^@' (0x00) found in field 't_devmajor[1]'
Warning: non octal character '^@' (0x00) found in field 't_devmajor[2]'
Warning: non octal character '^@' (0x00) found in field 't_devmajor[3]'
Warning: non octal character '^@' (0x00) found in field 't_devmajor[4]'
Warning: non octal character '^@' (0x00) found in field 't_devmajor[5]'
Warning: non octal character '^@' (0x00) found in field 't_devmajor[6]'
Warning: non octal character '^@' (0x00) found in field 't_devmajor[7]'
Warning: non octal character '^@' (0x00) found in field 't_devminor[0]'
Warning: non octal character '^@' (0x00) found in field 't_devminor[1]'
Warning: non octal character '^@' (0x00) found in field 't_devminor[2]'
Warning: non octal character '^@' (0x00) found in field 't_devminor[3]'
Warning: non octal character '^@' (0x00) found in field 't_devminor[4]'
Warning: non octal character '^@' (0x00) found in field 't_devminor[5]'
Warning: non octal character '^@' (0x00) found in field 't_devminor[6]'
Warning: non octal character '^@' (0x00) found in field 't_devminor[7]'
*** Failing Filename 'etc/passwd'
Found 1st EOF block at 3
Found 2nd EOF block at 4
>>> Archive is not POSIX.1-1990 TAR standard compliant.

gtar --format=ustar -cf - /etc/passwd | tartest
gtar: Removing leading `/' from member names
0.004r 0.000u 0.000s 0% 0M 0+0k 0st 0+0io 0pf+0w
tartest 1.10 (i386-pc-solaris2.11)

Copyright (C) 2002 Jörg Schilling
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO
warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

Testing for POSIX.1-1990 TAR compliance...
Found 1st EOF block at 3
Found 2nd EOF block at 4
No deviations from POSIX.1-1990 TAR standard found.

NOTE:
The last one is a result of 15 years of nitpicking the GNU tar maintainers!

star delivers POSIX compliance for a long time....

Jörg

--
EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 07-10-2008, 09:02 AM
 
Default tar and huge tarballs used for back-ups

Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

> On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 01:11:29 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
> > OK. Question. What is a good program that allows me to select certain
> > directories to backup and then create DVD slices that I can burn to
> > DVD?
>
> Kdar.

If you use throw away backups, you may live with a non-standard archive format.

If you like to archive your backups, better use a standard compliant archive
format that grants you the ability to unpack even many years later.

Jörg

--
EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 07-10-2008, 09:09 AM
Neil Bothwick
 
Default tar and huge tarballs used for back-ups

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:02:51 +0200, Joerg Schilling wrote:

> > Kdar.
>
> If you use throw away backups, you may live with a non-standard archive
> format.
>
> If you like to archive your backups, better use a standard compliant
> archive format that grants you the ability to unpack even many years
> later.

I burn my backups onto bootable live DVDs that include dar, as well as
anything else I may need. When x86 compatible hardware is close to
extinction, I will have to rethink this, if I'm still alive.

Having said that, I've never looked at star, maybe I should (I'm not
bothered about a GUI for a job that's handled by a cron task)


--
Neil Bothwick

I am Speedy Gonzales of Borg: Prepare to be accelerated!
 
Old 07-10-2008, 11:06 AM
Dirk Heinrichs
 
Default tar and huge tarballs used for back-ups

Am Donnerstag, 10. Juli 2008 schrieb ext Dale:

> Thought I would move this problem to a new thread. It may not be
> related to the DVD itself. This is what I am currently testing. I used
> Kbackup to create a tarball in my /backup directory. I have the most
> basic setup for Kbackup at the moment. It creates the tarball but does
> not compress the files themselves but creates a .tar file. I think it
> takes the files, places it in the tarball then compresses it or
> something. I'm not real sure how Kbackup does its thing. I have it set
> to create tarballs and the limit is 4.4Gbs. I set it just short of a
> full 4.7Gb.

Hmm, never tried it myself so I don't know wether it works or not, but what
about enabling CONFIG_CDROM_PKTCDVD in the kernel and let tar write to the
device directly?

Like:

modprobe pktcdvd
pktsetup backup /dev/cdrom
tar -cMvf /dev/pktcdvd/backup myfiles # Change disc when prompted
pktsetup -d backup
rmmod pktcdvd

Bye...

Dirk
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Old 07-10-2008, 11:27 AM
Dirk Heinrichs
 
Default tar and huge tarballs used for back-ups

Am Donnerstag, 10. Juli 2008 schrieb ext Dirk Heinrichs:
> Hmm, never tried it myself so I don't know wether it works or not, but
> what about enabling CONFIG_CDROM_PKTCDVD in the kernel and let tar write
> to the device directly?

Another option could be to use bacula, but that may be oversized.

Bye...

Dirk
--
Dirk Heinrichs | Tel: +49 (0)162 234 3408
Configuration Manager | Fax: +49 (0)211 47068 111
Capgemini Deutschland | Mail: dirk.heinrichs@capgemini.com
Wanheimerstraße 68 | Web: http://www.capgemini.com
D-40468 Düsseldorf | ICQ#: 110037733
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Old 07-10-2008, 12:07 PM
 
Default tar and huge tarballs used for back-ups

Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

> I burn my backups onto bootable live DVDs that include dar, as well as
> anything else I may need. When x86 compatible hardware is close to
> extinction, I will have to rethink this, if I'm still alive.
>
> Having said that, I've never looked at star, maybe I should (I'm not
> bothered about a GUI for a job that's handled by a cron task)

What do you do when your DVD no longer boots on the only working hardware?
What do you do if you cannot compile dar on the OS that late runs on your
machines?

dar still does not compile out of the box because the configure srcipt aborts
and needs manual fixes, so dar cannot be called a piece of highly portable
software.



Jörg

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