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Old 07-01-2008, 11:16 AM
Enrico Weigelt
 
Default OT: intentionally broken media

* Joerg Schilling <Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> wrote:

> Some years ago, the Music Mafia did start to sell defective
> disks that look similar to CDs, but this is a different story.

Yep, I recently had an dvd which didn't play on my notebook,
couldn't read a single block
Luckily I didn't buy it.

In these days you have to be *really* careful what to buy.

BTW: a friend of mine is lawyer and music producer. I'm trying
to convince him to admonish those companies which intentionally
sell broken products ... would be nice if he'd really do this
Joerg, do you feel confident enough in the area to provide a
expertise which could stand in court ?


cu
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Enrico Weigelt == metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce:
http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce
Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions:
http://patches.metux.de/
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Old 07-03-2008, 08:55 AM
 
Default OT: intentionally broken media

Enrico Weigelt <weigelt@metux.de> wrote:

> * Joerg Schilling <Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> wrote:
>
> > Some years ago, the Music Mafia did start to sell defective
> > disks that look similar to CDs, but this is a different story.
>
> Yep, I recently had an dvd which didn't play on my notebook,
> couldn't read a single block
> Luckily I didn't buy it.
>
> In these days you have to be *really* careful what to buy.
>
> BTW: a friend of mine is lawyer and music producer. I'm trying
> to convince him to admonish those companies which intentionally
> sell broken products ... would be nice if he'd really do this
> Joerg, do you feel confident enough in the area to provide a
> expertise which could stand in court ?

I tries to do this via the "Verbraucherzentrale" - they have not been
interested.

You first need to check whether you may sue someone at all if you are not
the "Verbraucherzentrale". What you may do is to forbid mixing these non-CDs
with standard compliant media in the same rack in a shop and you may force the
shops to add hints that "the rack to the left" does not include CDs.

Jörg

--
EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily

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Old 07-03-2008, 11:23 PM
Enrico Weigelt
 
Default OT: intentionally broken media

* Joerg Schilling <Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> wrote:

> > BTW: a friend of mine is lawyer and music producer. I'm trying
> > to convince him to admonish those companies which intentionally
> > sell broken products ... would be nice if he'd really do this
> > Joerg, do you feel confident enough in the area to provide a
> > expertise which could stand in court ?
>
> I tries to do this via the "Verbraucherzentrale" - they have not been
> interested.

Did you expect something useful from them as long as they're
ruled by trolls like Seehofer ? ;-P

> You first need to check whether you may sue someone at all if you are
> not the "Verbraucherzentrale".

Well, depends on from which side you want to attack:
a) competition law violation: you have to be a competitor or represent
an reasonably large part of the market to be alled to file a suite.
b) they've sold a defective product, and so you're going to hold them
responsible for compensation
c) you see this as an defraud and press criminal charges.

> What you may do is to forbid mixing these non-CDs with standard compliant
> media in the same rack in a shop and you may force the shops to add hints
> that "the rack to the left" does not include CDs.

Yep, that would be the shop's resposibility, followed on the consumer
protection law. Another side is directly attacking the producer.


BUT: for now we have *far more critical* problems in our country.
Our goverment is obviously guilty of high treason, not just by
"EU constitution"/Lissabon contract.
In Bavaria, they even go that far to directly ignore an recent
contitutional court decision and legalize terroristic attacks
by officials. Soon we're at the point where the basic right for
violent resistent becomes active ...


cu
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Enrico Weigelt == metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce:
http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce
Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions:
http://patches.metux.de/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Old 07-04-2008, 10:32 AM
 
Default OT: intentionally broken media

Enrico Weigelt <weigelt@metux.de> wrote:

> > You first need to check whether you may sue someone at all if you are
> > not the "Verbraucherzentrale".
>
> Well, depends on from which side you want to attack:
> a) competition law violation: you have to be a competitor or represent
> an reasonably large part of the market to be alled to file a suite.
> b) they've sold a defective product, and so you're going to hold them
> responsible for compensation
> c) you see this as an defraud and press criminal charges.

OK, I forgot that you might have contact to a competitor. In this case, it
should be possible to force shops to clearly separate the selling point for
non-standard products from the products that behave as expected.


> > What you may do is to forbid mixing these non-CDs with standard compliant
> > media in the same rack in a shop and you may force the shops to add hints
> > that "the rack to the left" does not include CDs.
>
> Yep, that would be the shop's resposibility, followed on the consumer
> protection law. Another side is directly attacking the producer.

I am no sure whether you may directly attack the producer, but I would asume
that you could forbid the producer to advertize these defective products as if
they were CDs. I expect this will result in some micro-text: "This product is
not a CD, we thus cannot grant that it is playable in a CD player" on all ads.


Jörg

--
EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
--
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Old 07-04-2008, 09:12 PM
Enrico Weigelt
 
Default OT: intentionally broken media

* Joerg Schilling <Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> wrote:

> OK, I forgot that you might have contact to a competitor. In this case, it
> should be possible to force shops to clearly separate the selling point for
> non-standard products from the products that behave as expected.

Yep, my advocate is also music producer, so he can do this

> > Yep, that would be the shop's resposibility, followed on the consumer
> > protection law. Another side is directly attacking the producer.
>
> I am no sure whether you may directly attack the producer, but I would asume
> that you could forbid the producer to advertize these defective products as if
> they were CDs. I expect this will result in some micro-text: "This product is
> not a CD, we thus cannot grant that it is playable in a CD player" on all ads.

Well, that would be at least a good step. The main point is that
we've have to get managed that these products may not be traded
as they now are in our country. So either producer or importer
have to react on that.

Imagine the big news @heise if we'd such a case


cu
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Enrico Weigelt == metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce:
http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce
Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions:
http://patches.metux.de/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
--
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:51 AM
 
Default OT: intentionally broken media

Enrico Weigelt <weigelt@metux.de> wrote:

> * Joerg Schilling <Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de> wrote:
>
> > OK, I forgot that you might have contact to a competitor. In this case, it
> > should be possible to force shops to clearly separate the selling point for
> > non-standard products from the products that behave as expected.
>
> Yep, my advocate is also music producer, so he can do this

Then you may think about another interesting case:

I am not sure about today, but a few years ago, Sony did definitely do
something real strange:

They sold CDs that flip the copy control bit in the subchannel data with a
frequency of 9.375 Hz. This is an indication for:

"The creator of this copy is not the copyright holder".

So Sony sold something illegal. ..... Well, they did this in order to prevent
home stereeo appliances from allowing copies if the disk, but the SCM is
intended to mark home made copies.

Sony did sell media that contain a marker for "Sony does not own the copyright
on this media".

Jörg

--
EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin
js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni)
schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/
URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
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