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Old 02-04-2008, 09:30 PM
Chris Gianelloni
 
Default Call for feature requests for 2008.0 - Universal-CD

On Mon, 2008-02-04 at 22:33 +0100, Markus Hauschild wrote:
> > That means less time taken and less stress for us. If you
> > don't like it, become a dev and volunteer for release engineering, and build the
> > universal CDs yourself.
>
> Copy n pasteing a config that would be the Universal CD is worth a
> developer position

No, it most definitely is not.

cp /path/to/specs/livecd-stage2-minimal.spec /path/to/specs/livecd-stage2-universal.spec
sed -i 's/minimal/universal/' livecd-stage2-universal.spec
echo "livecd/overlay: /path/to/stages/and/distfiles" >>
livecd-stage2-universal.spec

Done.

That's it. Yes, that's really it. No, there's nothing special about
the Universal CD. No, we still aren't going to offer it.

--
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Games Developer
 
Old 02-04-2008, 09:35 PM
Chris Gianelloni
 
Default Call for feature requests for 2008.0 - Universal-CD

On Mon, 2008-02-04 at 22:47 +0100, Peter Weber wrote:
> A other good solution would be merging Universal and Minimal-CD
> togehter, so we offer only a smaller Universal-CD (about 200-400 MB) and
> a complete LiveCD (about 700 MB).

Wow. I'm just not even going to respond to this one and just let
everybody who knows what the difference between a Minimal CD and an
Universal CD snicker to themselves. ;]

> > * Support for network/networkless-installation on one release-media
>
> > The LiveCD does this.
>
> No. Only the Installer does this! This is not possible via shell,
> because the users have no access to the voodoo-scripts.

No, the LiveCD does this. The Installer is a feature of the LiveCD.
Also, the Installer doesn't do networked installs, anymore.

> Why nobody removes Gnome, Open-Office from the LiveCD and replace it by
> a true Stage3? It would be also nice, not be forced always switch of the
> automatic start of the howl X11-Crap.
> Default could be the plain shell, as ever, and a message who says the
> user he could type "installer" (for ncurses-installer) and
> "gui-installer" (for X11 with Installer). Gentoo is about choices ;-)

No, Gentoo is about empowering the user to make choices for themselves
and providing the tools to facilitate those choices. It doesn't mean
that we have to spend countless hours building, testing, and supporting
media that we find to be rather useless due to its *very* limited
feature set versus the LiveCD.

--
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Games Developer
 
Old 02-04-2008, 09:36 PM
Chris Gianelloni
 
Default Call for feature requests for 2008.0 - Universal-CD

On Mon, 2008-02-04 at 22:49 +0100, Markus Hauschild wrote:
> On Feb 4, 2008 10:47 PM, Peter Weber <peterle@hottemptation.org> wrote:
> > > The LiveDVD includes stages and a snapshot.
> >
> > Interesting and good, but the LiveDVD is, let us say the truth -
> > overkill.
> >
> > A other good solution would be merging Universal and Minimal-CD
> > togehter, so we offer only a smaller Universal-CD (about 200-400 MB) and
> > a complete LiveCD (about 700 MB).
>
> I'd love a minimal + stage3 + portage-snapshot + stuff you really need
> (kernel sources, grub, maybe a syslogger)

You just described an Universal CD.

--
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Games Developer
 
Old 02-04-2008, 09:50 PM
Peter Weber
 
Default Call for feature requests for 2008.0 - Universal-CD

Hours for, mhhh, five lines of code?
...think yourself about.


On Mon, 2008-02-04 at 14:35 -0800, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> On Mon, 2008-02-04 at 22:47 +0100, Peter Weber wrote:
> > A other good solution would be merging Universal and Minimal-CD
> > togehter, so we offer only a smaller Universal-CD (about 200-400 MB) and
> > a complete LiveCD (about 700 MB).
>
> Wow. I'm just not even going to respond to this one and just let
> everybody who knows what the difference between a Minimal CD and an
> Universal CD snicker to themselves. ;]
>
> > > * Support for network/networkless-installation on one release-media
> >
> > > The LiveCD does this.
> >
> > No. Only the Installer does this! This is not possible via shell,
> > because the users have no access to the voodoo-scripts.
>
> No, the LiveCD does this. The Installer is a feature of the LiveCD.
> Also, the Installer doesn't do networked installs, anymore.
>
> > Why nobody removes Gnome, Open-Office from the LiveCD and replace it by
> > a true Stage3? It would be also nice, not be forced always switch of the
> > automatic start of the howl X11-Crap.
> > Default could be the plain shell, as ever, and a message who says the
> > user he could type "installer" (for ncurses-installer) and
> > "gui-installer" (for X11 with Installer). Gentoo is about choices ;-)
>
> No, Gentoo is about empowering the user to make choices for themselves
> and providing the tools to facilitate those choices. It doesn't mean
> that we have to spend countless hours building, testing, and supporting
> media that we find to be rather useless due to its *very* limited
> feature set versus the LiveCD.
>

--
gentoo-releng@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 02-04-2008, 10:30 PM
Chris Gianelloni
 
Default Call for feature requests for 2008.0 - Universal-CD

On Mon, 2008-02-04 at 23:50 +0100, Peter Weber wrote:
> Hours for, mhhh, five lines of code?

Five lines of code, gathering the distfiles together, and lots and lots
of testing.

Seriously, buddy. Do me a favor and quit responding. You've shown that
you don't really have a clue what's involved in creating/supporting the
Universal CD. You've also already said that we're not going to bring it
back, so I don't really know what you're trying to accomplish here,
unless you just like to hear yourself talk.

> ...think yourself about.

...complete sentences and thoughts make yourself about which in the. ;]

--
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Games Developer
 
Old 02-05-2008, 07:10 PM
"Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto"
 
Default Call for feature requests for 2008.0 - Universal-CD

Hi.

Peter Weber wrote:

Anyone gave this any thought? There are still a LOT of dial-up users
out here. People seem to forget that, especially the website with all
the huge pages. My Space comes to mind on that.



Even users with high-speed connections want to stay independent and
free, relying on a network-connection is unsafe.

I want my backup of my OS in my hand and not on a web-server.
But I also prefer web-installation because I got immediately up-to-date
files.


Dale, that's true and we worry about that. However, there's so much we
can do about it.


Peter, this is a source distro. The release engineering team created the
GLI for those that wanted pre-compiled packages for a networkless
install. But our regular install has to be network based. If you want to
have a backup of your system, you should look into creating a stage4
image of your system. Also, unlike other distros, one doesn't need to
reinstall to update Gentoo.

Relying on a network-connection for installation is like relying on the
Windows-Activation and Windows live-update. If you need it, you can be
sure, that it will NOT work! Maybe they deny the access, delete the all
the files through a accident, or some stupid captain cut off your
backbone...*haha*

I've never done a networkless install of Gentoo and I've installed it a
"few" times on several arches without any "network glitches".


--
Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
Gentoo-forums / Userrel / SPARC / KDE

--
gentoo-releng@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 02-05-2008, 08:55 PM
Dale
 
Default Call for feature requests for 2008.0 - Universal-CD

Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
> Hi.
>
> Peter Weber wrote:
>>> Anyone gave this any thought? There are still a LOT of dial-up users
>>> out here. People seem to forget that, especially the website with all
>>> the huge pages. My Space comes to mind on that.
>>>
>>
>> Even users with high-speed connections want to stay independent and
>> free, relying on a network-connection is unsafe.
>>
>> I want my backup of my OS in my hand and not on a web-server.
>> But I also prefer web-installation because I got immediately up-to-date
>> files.
>>
>>
> Dale, that's true and we worry about that. However, there's so much we
> can do about it.
>

I just didn't want the team to forget us. Dial-up is my only option at
this time, except DirecTv which is to expensive. DSL is coming, I
think. I said this somewhere before, I would hate to know I lost
everything and had to start over from a 2007 CD. It's not the little
kinks in the upgrade that would bother me, it would be the download time.

I don't currently have a DVD drive but plan to get one soon. I'm not
sure what is on there but it would be nice if there were a LOT of
distfiles stored on there since they have a lot of room on them. A
regular update would be nice too. Twice a year, around February and
again in July or August would be nice. I mention that in case there is
a gcc upgrade or some other huge fix. Even the *.1 version being the
second version would be cool.

These are just thoughts.

Dale

:-) :-) :-)
--
gentoo-releng@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 

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