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Old 02-04-2008, 08:20 PM
Peter Weber
 
Default Call for feature requests for 2008.0 - Universal-CD

Hello,

I now that Chris Gianelloni loves his LiveCD an the GUI-Installer and I
know that he don't like to accept changes he don't support personally.
But I do that know, so please don't kill me:

Gentoo should have again an Universal-CD again, because:

* Support for network/networkless-installation on one release-media
* More flexibility as with Minimal-CD and LiveCD
* Compared with LiveCD the footprint is generally small (necessary
hardware, size of image)
* Offers the classic full "Shell-Installation" who is loved by the
gentoo-community (no voodoo-scripts, included stage3 and sources for the
most important packages like vanilla-sources and bootloaders)
* Could also offer a Ncurses-Installer and requires only some MB of
space on the disk (without X11, Gnome, OpenOffice)
* One consistent-installation way for all platforms (only x86/x86_64
doesn't offer it currently)
* Debian and Ubuntu (with its alternate-cd) offers currently more
flexible solutions than Gentoo! Hey, who is here the meta-distribution?
* There are currently unoffical Universal-CD avaiable, we don't need
much work to prepare: http://download.libexec.de/ting/2007.0/

Thanks to dertobi for the great work ;-)
Maybe he can support you with necessary and up-to-date catalyst files.

Please don't put this suggestion to your trash can, because you
personally don't need or want it. The Univeral-CD is and was always a
great installation-media, and it was simple.

This is no suggestion against the LiveCD or the Installer!

Thanks
Peter Weber






On Thu, 2008-01-24 at 10:23 -0800, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> Release Engineering is in the planning stages for 2008.0, so we're
> asking for input from the community on things that they'd like to see
> added/changed/removed from our release media. All requests should be
> something Release Engineering actually can accomplish, like profile
> changes, or changes to the stages or ISO images. We are interested in
> all ideas, though we may only choose a few, as time and mirror space are
> definite considerations.
>
> So, if you'd like to see something changed in Gentoo's releases, come on
> over to the gentoo-releng mailing list and join in the fun!
>
> --
> Chris Gianelloni
> Release Engineering Strategic Lead
> Games Developer

--
gentoo-releng@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 02-04-2008, 08:25 PM
"Randall D. Wald"
 
Default Call for feature requests for 2008.0 - Universal-CD

I second this, in particular the part about including stage3 on the CD;
I'm always annoyed when, after downloading and burning the LiveCD, I
need to download the stage3, possibly from a laptop without working
wireless.

Sincerely,

Randall

Peter Weber wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I now that Chris Gianelloni loves his LiveCD an the GUI-Installer and I
> know that he don't like to accept changes he don't support personally.
> But I do that know, so please don't kill me:
>
> Gentoo should have again an Universal-CD again, because:
>
> * Support for network/networkless-installation on one release-media
> * More flexibility as with Minimal-CD and LiveCD
> * Compared with LiveCD the footprint is generally small (necessary
> hardware, size of image)
> * Offers the classic full "Shell-Installation" who is loved by the
> gentoo-community (no voodoo-scripts, included stage3 and sources for the
> most important packages like vanilla-sources and bootloaders)
> * Could also offer a Ncurses-Installer and requires only some MB of
> space on the disk (without X11, Gnome, OpenOffice)
> * One consistent-installation way for all platforms (only x86/x86_64
> doesn't offer it currently)
> * Debian and Ubuntu (with its alternate-cd) offers currently more
> flexible solutions than Gentoo! Hey, who is here the meta-distribution?
> * There are currently unoffical Universal-CD avaiable, we don't need
> much work to prepare: http://download.libexec.de/ting/2007.0/
>
> Thanks to dertobi for the great work ;-)
> Maybe he can support you with necessary and up-to-date catalyst files.
>
> Please don't put this suggestion to your trash can, because you
> personally don't need or want it. The Univeral-CD is and was always a
> great installation-media, and it was simple.
>
> This is no suggestion against the LiveCD or the Installer!
>
> Thanks
> Peter Weber
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 2008-01-24 at 10:23 -0800, Chris Gianelloni wrote:
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> Release Engineering is in the planning stages for 2008.0, so we're
>> asking for input from the community on things that they'd like to see
>> added/changed/removed from our release media. All requests should be
>> something Release Engineering actually can accomplish, like profile
>> changes, or changes to the stages or ISO images. We are interested in
>> all ideas, though we may only choose a few, as time and mirror space are
>> definite considerations.
>>
>> So, if you'd like to see something changed in Gentoo's releases, come on
>> over to the gentoo-releng mailing list and join in the fun!
>>
>> --
>> Chris Gianelloni
>> Release Engineering Strategic Lead
>> Games Developer
>
 
Old 02-04-2008, 08:26 PM
Andrew Gaffney
 
Default Call for feature requests for 2008.0 - Universal-CD

Peter Weber wrote:

Hello,

I now that Chris Gianelloni loves his LiveCD an the GUI-Installer and I
know that he don't like to accept changes he don't support personally.
But I do that know, so please don't kill me:

Gentoo should have again an Universal-CD again, because:

* Support for network/networkless-installation on one release-media


The LiveCD does this.


* More flexibility as with Minimal-CD and LiveCD


The only "flexibility" that the universal has over the LiveCD is in allowing you
a little more customization during a networkless install. However, you can
always customize after the fact after installing with the installer.



* Compared with LiveCD the footprint is generally small (necessary
hardware, size of image)


If you want small, use the minimal. Also, you seem to be forgetting the GRP CD,
which is required to make the universal CD actually useful.



* Offers the classic full "Shell-Installation" who is loved by the
gentoo-community (no voodoo-scripts, included stage3 and sources for the
most important packages like vanilla-sources and bootloaders)


Why can't you open a terminal and install? I know I've done it many times from
the LiveCD.



* Could also offer a Ncurses-Installer and requires only some MB of
space on the disk (without X11, Gnome, OpenOffice)
* One consistent-installation way for all platforms (only x86/x86_64
doesn't offer it currently)
* Debian and Ubuntu (with its alternate-cd) offers currently more
flexible solutions than Gentoo! Hey, who is here the meta-distribution?


Good for them.


* There are currently unoffical Universal-CD avaiable, we don't need
much work to prepare: http://download.libexec.de/ting/2007.0/


You're always welcome to build your own media if you don't like what we put out.
Keep in mind that we are *volunteers*. We like the LiveCD, because it's easier
to build and test. That means less time taken and less stress for us. If you
don't like it, become a dev and volunteer for release engineering, and build the
universal CDs yourself.


--
Andrew Gaffney http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
Gentoo Linux Developer Catalyst/Installer + x86 release coordinator
--
gentoo-releng@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 02-04-2008, 08:28 PM
Andrew Gaffney
 
Default Call for feature requests for 2008.0 - Universal-CD

Randall D. Wald wrote:

I second this, in particular the part about including stage3 on the CD;
I'm always annoyed when, after downloading and burning the LiveCD, I
need to download the stage3, possibly from a laptop without working
wireless.


The LiveDVD includes stages and a snapshot.

--
Andrew Gaffney http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
Gentoo Linux Developer Catalyst/Installer + x86 release coordinator
--
gentoo-releng@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 02-04-2008, 08:33 PM
"Markus Hauschild"
 
Default Call for feature requests for 2008.0 - Universal-CD

On Feb 4, 2008 10:26 PM, Andrew Gaffney <agaffney@gentoo.org> wrote:
> You're always welcome to build your own media if you don't like what we put out.
> Keep in mind that we are *volunteers*. We like the LiveCD, because it's easier
> to build and test.

Some people just like to stick with the stuff they are used to I'd
also prefer the Universal CD over the other methods but usually I just
stick with my minimal + copy from LAN and I just have to accept that
you are no longer offering an Universal CD.

> That means less time taken and less stress for us. If you
> don't like it, become a dev and volunteer for release engineering, and build the
> universal CDs yourself.

Copy n pasteing a config that would be the Universal CD is worth a
developer position

--

Cheers, Markus
--
gentoo-releng@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 02-04-2008, 08:49 PM
"Markus Hauschild"
 
Default Call for feature requests for 2008.0 - Universal-CD

On Feb 4, 2008 10:47 PM, Peter Weber <peterle@hottemptation.org> wrote:
> > The LiveDVD includes stages and a snapshot.
>
> Interesting and good, but the LiveDVD is, let us say the truth -
> overkill.
>
> A other good solution would be merging Universal and Minimal-CD
> togehter, so we offer only a smaller Universal-CD (about 200-400 MB) and
> a complete LiveCD (about 700 MB).

I'd love a minimal + stage3 + portage-snapshot + stuff you really need
(kernel sources, grub, maybe a syslogger)
But I guess I'd have to make that one myself then (and then its not
worth the effort)

--

Cheers, Markus
--
gentoo-releng@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 02-04-2008, 08:58 PM
Andrew Gaffney
 
Default Call for feature requests for 2008.0 - Universal-CD

Markus Hauschild wrote:

On Feb 4, 2008 10:47 PM, Peter Weber <peterle@hottemptation.org> wrote:

The LiveDVD includes stages and a snapshot.

Interesting and good, but the LiveDVD is, let us say the truth -
overkill.

A other good solution would be merging Universal and Minimal-CD
togehter, so we offer only a smaller Universal-CD (about 200-400 MB) and
a complete LiveCD (about 700 MB).


I'd love a minimal + stage3 + portage-snapshot + stuff you really need
(kernel sources, grub, maybe a syslogger)
But I guess I'd have to make that one myself then (and then its not
worth the effort)


That doesn't even make sense. A universal CD is nothing but a minimal plus some
stuff. You can't merge them together, unless you're talking about getting rid of
the minimal all together, and then that's even dumber.


--
Andrew Gaffney http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
Gentoo Linux Developer Catalyst/Installer + x86 release coordinator
--
gentoo-releng@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 02-04-2008, 09:03 PM
"Markus Hauschild"
 
Default Call for feature requests for 2008.0 - Universal-CD

On Feb 4, 2008 10:58 PM, Andrew Gaffney <agaffney@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> That doesn't even make sense. A universal CD is nothing but a minimal plus some
> stuff. You can't merge them together, unless you're talking about getting rid of
> the minimal all together, and then that's even dumber.
>

I'm talking about striping xorg, and all that kind of stuff from the LiveCD

--

Cheers, Markus
--
gentoo-releng@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 02-04-2008, 09:05 PM
Dale
 
Default Call for feature requests for 2008.0 - Universal-CD

Andrew Gaffney wrote:
> Markus Hauschild wrote:
>> On Feb 4, 2008 10:47 PM, Peter Weber <peterle@hottemptation.org> wrote:
>>>> The LiveDVD includes stages and a snapshot.
>>> Interesting and good, but the LiveDVD is, let us say the truth -
>>> overkill.
>>>
>>> A other good solution would be merging Universal and Minimal-CD
>>> togehter, so we offer only a smaller Universal-CD (about 200-400 MB)
>>> and
>>> a complete LiveCD (about 700 MB).
>>
>> I'd love a minimal + stage3 + portage-snapshot + stuff you really need
>> (kernel sources, grub, maybe a syslogger)
>> But I guess I'd have to make that one myself then (and then its not
>> worth the effort)
>
> That doesn't even make sense. A universal CD is nothing but a minimal
> plus some stuff. You can't merge them together, unless you're talking
> about getting rid of the minimal all together, and then that's even
> dumber.
>


I would also like to add that some of us can't download like others. I,
for example, am on dial-up and a sucky one at that. I have to order
most everything because it would take me a week or longer to download
about any CD. I don't even want to think if I had to boot from the 2007
CD and install from scratch. Typing in the commands, no problem at
all. Waiting to download all the packages, HUGE problem.

I love options and Gentoo has a lot of them. I would also like to have
options available just in case the unthinkable happens. I would most
likely install Mandrake, old version that I still have, and then install
Gentoo from there.

Anyone gave this any thought? There are still a LOT of dial-up users
out here. People seem to forget that, especially the website with all
the huge pages. My Space comes to mind on that.

Just a thought.

Dale

:-) :-)
--
gentoo-releng@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 02-04-2008, 09:18 PM
Brent Baude
 
Default Call for feature requests for 2008.0 - Universal-CD

Peter and company,

It is important for you to understand that we, releng, are in the
process of 2008.0 right now. As such, it probably is not fair to
knowingly push our buttons given that we have entered the execution
phase of doing this work now. Gentoo folks, users and devs alike, felt
it was important to focus on getting 2008 out and in quick order. This
is where our time investment should be going. The call for features is
closed and our direction is clear. We know what we are going to build
and deliver.


I encourage you to find a way to constructively spool your input; and it
should probably be aimed at post-2008.0. This rag-tag releng team is
stressed to its limits to meet deadlines. If you feel so strongly about
Gentoo and want to advocate for users, please join and begin to
contribute to that extent. This is how the current team members got
started.




Regards,


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--
gentoo-releng@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 

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