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Old 05-14-2008, 12:55 PM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default Correct uclibc profile to use?

On Tuesday 13 May 2008, Ed W wrote:
> Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > On Thursday 08 May 2008, Joe Lacombe wrote:
> >> <FONT face="Default Sans Serif,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"
> >> size=2>
> >
> > i left my HTML eyeballs at home. please fix your e-mail client.
>
> You appear to be using KMail which supports html mail just fine...

which ive disabled so i dont have to deal with it. replies/quoting easily
break and destroy followups. all so people can force their preferred viewing
font on others.

> (For reference I run an ISP serving customers over a 2,400 baud
> satellite link which costs significant $$ per min - if anyone should
> care about compact email I would be up there - however, I do think this
> reluctance to accept HTML email is pretty old fashioned these days....
> OK, Next up, banning websites which don't work perfectly in links...)

if you want to make the argument on a non-technical list, go for it. open
source technical lists (such as this one) have all banned html. get with it
or dont post.
-mike
 
Old 05-14-2008, 03:14 PM
Ed W
 
Default Correct uclibc profile to use?

Mike Frysinger wrote:



You appear to be using KMail which supports html mail just fine...



which ive disabled so i dont have to deal with it. replies/quoting easily
break and destroy followups. all so people can force their preferred viewing
font on others.




Actually, getting all technical on you for a moment, but at least in
theory HTML has the ability to properly support replies and quoting as
part of it's standard



...Absolutely with you though that the most popular MUA in most circles
is Outlook and this fails even to reply and create a proper indent let
alone using decent use of HTML tags...* Oh well.



Not really sure what Thunderbird does - it prompts sometimes and
othertimes does it's own thing..* Hope this is plain text?




if you want to make the argument on a non-technical list, go for it. open
source technical lists (such as this one) have all banned html. get with it
or dont post.





I already nailed my colours to the mast as someone who cares (remember
I serve customers with only 20KB/minute of bandwidth!) - I was pointing
out that this debate pops up time and time again and basically it's
like trying to hold back the tide...



For what it's worth I have a very clever filtering setup as part of my
ISP arrangement which simply automatically converts html to plain text
and archives the original so that you can get it back again if you need
it, etc.* I think if you really want plain text only then it's far
easier to just setup the mailing list to convert all mails
automatically than it is to try and badger users to change their
habits...



Personally I think this is a problem solvable by computer and I'm all
in favour of stuff where teh computer does the work rather than humans
having to press one more key just to do something (which is basically
also your complaint).* I can point you towards some html flattener
software if you are the admin for this list?



Good luck



Ed W
 
Old 05-14-2008, 04:12 PM
Ned Ludd
 
Default Correct uclibc profile to use?

On Wed, 2008-05-14 at 08:55 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Tuesday 13 May 2008, Ed W wrote:
> > Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > > On Thursday 08 May 2008, Joe Lacombe wrote:
> > >> <FONT face="Default Sans Serif,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"
> > >> size=2>
> > >
> > > i left my HTML eyeballs at home. please fix your e-mail client.
> >
> > You appear to be using KMail which supports html mail just fine...
>
> which ive disabled so i dont have to deal with it. replies/quoting easily
> break and destroy followups. all so people can force their preferred viewing
> font on others.
>
> > (For reference I run an ISP serving customers over a 2,400 baud
> > satellite link which costs significant $$ per min - if anyone should
> > care about compact email I would be up there - however, I do think this
> > reluctance to accept HTML email is pretty old fashioned these days....
> > OK, Next up, banning websites which don't work perfectly in links...)
>
> if you want to make the argument on a non-technical list, go for it. open
> source technical lists (such as this one) have all banned html. get with it
> or dont post.

When Robin returns from Hong Kong etc.. We should see what we can do
about having our mailing lists outright reject posts that are text/html.
It messes up archives and the likes.


--
gentoo-embedded@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 05-14-2008, 04:23 PM
wireless
 
Default Correct uclibc profile to use?

Ed W wrote:

Mike Frysinger wrote:



You appear to be using KMail which supports html mail just fine...



which ive disabled so i dont have to deal with it. replies/quoting easily
break and destroy followups. all so people can force their preferred viewing
font on others.



Actually, getting all technical on you for a moment, but at least in
theory HTML has the ability to properly support replies and quoting as
part of it's standard


...Absolutely with you though that the most popular MUA in most circles
is Outlook and this fails even to reply and create a proper indent let
alone using decent use of HTML tags... Oh well.




Ed,

This is an embedded technical list, most are avid Linux supporters if
not Gentoo directly. It is a common convention to post without html,
as it does cause folks to spend time on things they ordinarily would
not. I "hate" html email and many technical folks will just ignore your

postings.



Not really sure what Thunderbird does - it prompts sometimes and
othertimes does it's own thing.. Hope this is plain text?


if you want to make the argument on a non-technical list, go for it. open
source technical lists (such as this one) have all banned html. get with it
or dont post.



I already nailed my colours to the mast as someone who cares (remember I
serve customers with only 20KB/minute of bandwidth!) - I was pointing
out that this debate pops up time and time again and basically it's like
trying to hold back the tide...


For what it's worth I have a very clever filtering setup as part of my
ISP arrangement which simply automatically converts html to plain text
and archives the original so that you can get it back again if you need
it, etc. I think if you really want plain text only then it's far
easier to just setup the mailing list to convert all mails automatically
than it is to try and badger users to change their habits...


Again, no body usually wants to spend their time on such matters.
Folks will just ignore you, or ban you from the list (are you listening ?)




Personally I think this is a problem solvable by computer and I'm all in
favour of stuff where teh computer does the work rather than humans
having to press one more key just to do something (which is basically
also your complaint). I can point you towards some html flattener
software if you are the admin for this list?


I agree with the other posters. NO HTML EMAILs.



James
--
gentoo-embedded@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 05-14-2008, 04:52 PM
David Ford
 
Default Correct uclibc profile to use?

Personally, I am for permitting HTML, or rich text email. I quite
prefer to use rich mail. I am also judicious in it's use so it's not
bloated like M$ mail.

This list has very rabid anti-html users. They would rather pollute
emails with a large amount of spaces to position their content and odd
characters to represent barely decipherable graphic content than use a
language designed for marking up and laying out the presentation.

Eventually their kind will grow old and the younger generation will take
over. They will go the way of the 74 column force wrapped emails who
went the way of the 36 column force wrapped emails, etc, etc.

All their excuses are entirely lame. All modern mailing list software can:

a) reform mail from HTML to plain text
b) archive both plain text and HTML mail just fine

All modern MUAs can also present the end user with plain text
representations of HTML or use the text/plain mime part instead of the
text/html mime part whether it is native or by sub shell.

This particular subject comes up several times a year and will continue to.

HTML mail is neither ignorant nor non-standard but you will definitely
have several people on this list lambast you as such.

Further, I consider these people hypocrites since most of them run
websites and use HTML markup. Why don't they make plain text web
pages? Their content can be expressed just as stone age appearing as
their text email is expressed.

^_^

-david

Ed W wrote:
> Mike Frysinger wrote:
>>
>>> You appear to be using KMail which supports html mail just fine...
>>>
>>
>> which ive disabled so i dont have to deal with it. replies/quoting easily
>> break and destroy followups. all so people can force their preferred viewing
>> font on others.
>>
>
> Actually, getting all technical on you for a moment, but at least in
> theory HTML has the ability to properly support replies and quoting as
> part of it's standard
>
> ...Absolutely with you though that the most popular MUA in most
> circles is Outlook and this fails even to reply and create a proper
> indent let alone using decent use of HTML tags... Oh well.
>
> Not really sure what Thunderbird does - it prompts sometimes and
> othertimes does it's own thing.. Hope this is plain text?
>
>> if you want to make the argument on a non-technical list, go for it. open
>> source technical lists (such as this one) have all banned html. get with it
>> or dont post.
>
>
> I already nailed my colours to the mast as someone who cares (remember
> I serve customers with only 20KB/minute of bandwidth!) - I was
> pointing out that this debate pops up time and time again and
> basically it's like trying to hold back the tide...
>
> For what it's worth I have a very clever filtering setup as part of my
> ISP arrangement which simply automatically converts html to plain text
> and archives the original so that you can get it back again if you
> need it, etc. I think if you really want plain text only then it's
> far easier to just setup the mailing list to convert all mails
> automatically than it is to try and badger users to change their habits...
>
> Personally I think this is a problem solvable by computer and I'm all
> in favour of stuff where teh computer does the work rather than humans
> having to press one more key just to do something (which is basically
> also your complaint). I can point you towards some html flattener
> software if you are the admin for this list?
>
> Good luck
>
> Ed W

--
gentoo-embedded@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 05-14-2008, 05:34 PM
Joe Lacombe
 
Default Correct uclibc profile to use?

Dear List,

Please listen to yourselves. I changed my email options a week ago. I can live with any convention, and I am glad to be instructed. Does anybody have an answer to the actual question that started this thread?



-----David Ford <david@blue-labs.org> wrote: -----



To: gentoo-embedded@lists.gentoo.org

From: David Ford <david@blue-labs.org>

Date: 05/14/2008 12:52PM

Subject: Re: [gentoo-embedded] Correct uclibc profile to use?



Personally, I am for permitting HTML, or rich text email. *I quite

prefer to use rich mail. *I am also judicious in it's use so it's not

bloated like M$ mail.



This list has very rabid anti-html users. *They would rather pollute

emails with a large amount of spaces to position their content and odd

characters to represent barely decipherable graphic content than use a

language designed for marking up and laying out the presentation.



Eventually their kind will grow old and the younger generation will take

over. *They will go the way of the 74 column force wrapped emails who

went the way of the 36 column force wrapped emails, etc, etc.



All their excuses are entirely lame. *All modern mailing list software can:


a) reform mail from HTML to plain text

b) archive both plain text and HTML mail just fine


All modern MUAs can also present the end user with plain text

representations of HTML or use the text/plain mime part instead of the

text/html mime part whether it is native or by sub shell.



This particular subject comes up several times a year and will continue to.



HTML mail is neither ignorant nor non-standard but you will definitely

have several people on this list lambast you as such.



Further, I consider these people hypocrites since most of them run

websites and use HTML markup. *Why don't they make plain text web

pages? *Their content can be expressed just as stone age appearing as

their text email is expressed.



^_^



-david



Ed W wrote:

> Mike Frysinger wrote:

>>

>>> You appear to be using KMail which supports html mail just fine...

>>>

>>

>> which ive disabled so i dont have to deal with it. *replies/quoting easily

>> break and destroy followups. *all so people can force their preferred viewing

>> font on others.

>>

>

> Actually, getting all technical on you for a moment, but at least in

> theory HTML has the ability to properly support replies and quoting as

> part of it's standard

>

> ...Absolutely with you though that the most popular MUA in most

> circles is Outlook and this fails even to reply and create a proper

> indent let alone using decent use of HTML tags... *Oh well.

>

> Not really sure what Thunderbird does - it prompts sometimes and

> othertimes does it's own thing.. *Hope this is plain text?

>

>> if you want to make the argument on a non-technical list, go for it. *open

>> source technical lists (such as this one) have all banned html. *get with it

>> or dont post.

>

>

> I already nailed my colours to the mast as someone who cares (remember

> I serve customers with only 20KB/minute of bandwidth!) - I was

> pointing out that this debate pops up time and time again and

> basically it's like trying to hold back the tide...

>

> For what it's worth I have a very clever filtering setup as part of my

> ISP arrangement which simply automatically converts html to plain text

> and archives the original so that you can get it back again if you

> need it, etc. *I think if you really want plain text only then it's

> far easier to just setup the mailing list to convert all mails

> automatically than it is to try and badger users to change their habits...

>

> Personally I think this is a problem solvable by computer and I'm all

> in favour of stuff where teh computer does the work rather than humans

> having to press one more key just to do something (which is basically

> also your complaint). *I can point you towards some html flattener

> software if you are the admin for this list?

>

> Good luck

>

> Ed W



--

gentoo-embedded@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 05-14-2008, 05:36 PM
David Ford
 
Default Correct uclibc profile to use?

Joe Lacombe wrote:


Dear List,
Please listen to yourselves. I changed my email options a week ago. I
can live with any convention, and I am glad to be instructed. Does
anybody have an answer to the actual question that started this thread?




If I had an answer, I'd be quite happy to provide it to you but I
don't. I'm sorry.


-david

--
gentoo-embedded@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 05-14-2008, 05:48 PM
Ned Ludd
 
Default Correct uclibc profile to use?

On Wed, 2008-05-07 at 15:23 -0400, Joshua ChaitinPollak wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
> My embedded environment has gotten a bit stale, I was running with the
> stage1-x86-uclibc-2006.1.tar.gz and
> the /usr/portage/profiles/uclibc/x86 profile, but this stage release
> and profile both seem pretty stale.
>
>
> What is the recommended profile and method to bootstrap a uclibc
> environment with a more recent (2007.0 or 2008.0-beta2) stage tarball
> and the latest portage?


Grab the most recent stage from (hardened or non)
http://distributions.barfoo.org/gentoo/releases/x86/stages/uclibc/current/stage3-x86-uclibc-hardened-20080110.tar.bz2
unpack.

tar jxf stage3-x86-*.tar.bz2 -C /some_staging_dir
cd /some_staging_dir
mount -obind /proc proc
mount -obind /sys sys
cp /etc/resolv.conf etc/
chroot . /bin/bash --login
echo PKGDIR=/packages/ >> /etc/make.conf
echo FEATURES=buildpkg >> /etc/make.conf
emerge -q world

#finished.

>
> Thanks,
>
>
> -Josh
>
> --
> Joshua ChaitinPollak | Software Engineer
> Kiva Systems, Inc., 225 Wildwood Ave, Woburn, MA 01970
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
gentoo-embedded@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 05-14-2008, 07:08 PM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default Correct uclibc profile to use?

On Wednesday 14 May 2008, Ed W wrote:
> Mike Frysinger wrote:
> >> You appear to be using KMail which supports html mail just fine...
> >
> > which ive disabled so i dont have to deal with it. replies/quoting
> > easily break and destroy followups. all so people can force their
> > preferred viewing font on others.
>
> Actually, getting all technical on you for a moment, but at least in
> theory HTML has the ability to properly support replies and quoting as
> part of it's standard

i'm not saying that html isnt capable, just that the reality is, the clients
that generate it do so in an unusable manner. it is also useless and hates a
lot on transforming into other random interfaces

> > if you want to make the argument on a non-technical list, go for it.
> > open source technical lists (such as this one) have all banned html. get
> > with it or dont post.
>
> I already nailed my colours to the mast as someone who cares (remember I
> serve customers with only 20KB/minute of bandwidth!) - I was pointing
> out that this debate pops up time and time again and basically it's like
> trying to hold back the tide...

sorry, i didnt mean for my reply to sound like i was directing it at you. the
answer was meant in general. there is no discussion to have as we already
have a policy and it isnt going to change.
-mike
 
Old 05-15-2008, 07:36 AM
Matthijs Kooijman
 
Default Correct uclibc profile to use?

Hi,

> Personally, I am for permitting HTML, or rich text email. I quite
> prefer to use rich mail. I am also judicious in it's use so it's not
> bloated like M$ mail.
How nice it is that we can have completely different opinions, and even have
completely polite discussions about them (There is really no sarcasm in that
sentence, btw).

> Eventually their kind will grow old and the younger generation will take
> over. They will go the way of the 74 column force wrapped emails who
> went the way of the 36 column force wrapped emails, etc, etc.
Considering that I'm only 23, was I born in the wrong generation? :-p

Gr.

Matthijs
 

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