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Old 10-01-2012, 06:31 PM
Diego Elio Pettenò
 
Default CIA replacement

On 01/10/2012 11:29, Rich Freeman wrote:
> Where else would one discuss it?

gentoo-scm

Yes, there is a mailing list for that.

--
Diego Elio Pettenò — Flameeyes
flameeyes@flameeyes.eu — http://blog.flameeyes.eu/
 
Old 10-01-2012, 06:53 PM
Peter Stuge
 
Default CIA replacement

Rich Freeman wrote:
> I doubt everybody is going to be happy if somebody convinces infra
> to shut down cvs without any discussion first.

I would do exactly that, actually.

There's been years of discussion. There's even a mailing list for
discussion.


//Peter
 
Old 10-01-2012, 07:57 PM
"Gregory M. Turner"
 
Default CIA replacement

On 10/1/2012 10:29 AM, Rich Freeman wrote:



Looking at the tracker [1], we need a pre-upload hook (I'm not quite
sure why), an rsync conversion script, the ability to validate the
converted tree, and documentation. There is still an open bug for
commit signing, and I'm not quite sure why as this was implemented.


a job for gitolite? what does ogo use?


Am I missing some big concern that just isn't obvious in these bugs?


Things will break. There will be much wringing of virtual hands. But in
1 weeks' time, everyone will get over it and find ways to fix whatever
broke. There will be one less thing on the big to-do list, and most
people will be happier overall.


It's one of those "Social Security" type of things it's hard to build a
clean consensus around /when/ to make a break like this. I think we
basically need a headstrong asshole in a position of sufficient
authority to say, "fuck everyone, we are doing this, here is the
changeover date."


Too much democracy, tactical planning and consensus-building will almost
certainly perpetuate the status quo.


Look, Gentoo will probably fall to pieces for a few days. The
alternative, IMO, is a huge, elaborate multi-phase plan of some kind,
like how Microsoft or NASA would do it: armies of 40-somethings toil for
months or years in cubicles... Elaborate Gantt charts and process
diagrams are drawn up and approved by layer after layer of middle
management.


Gentoo can tolerate a hiccup; it's survived way scarier challenges. We
have a huge community of very talented people highly motivated to keep
this machinery working... there's literally zero chance that Gentoo will
somehow have it's spirit broken by cvs->git.


In other words, devs -- imo -- just go for it. Throw caution to the
wind. Break some bylaws if need be. Ignore anyone saying "we're not
ready." It'll be easier to get forgiveness than permission, and exactly
what process issues needed to be smoothed over will frankly only truly
be clear in the aftermath.


Of course, that's easy for me to say since I'm not the one whose door
everyone will be beating down when TSHTF. There are worse things than
CVS (Visual SourceSafe comes to mind). But if we don't bite the bullet
now, we all know we'll be having this discussion again later.


-gmt
 
Old 10-01-2012, 08:17 PM
Peter Stuge
 
Default CIA replacement

Gregory M. Turner wrote:
> "fuck everyone, we are doing this, here is the changeover date."

Well put. When is the date? I suggest October 5th, 18:00 UTC.


//Peter
 
Old 10-01-2012, 08:19 PM
Dirkjan Ochtman
 
Default CIA replacement

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Why exactly are we still using cvs? Rather than building enhancements
> for cvs, why not just migrate everything to git, and spend our time
> building the git hooks/etc necessary to make this work?

The CIA/irc bot issue is pretty much entirely orthogonal to the git
migration issues, so I don't think you should hijack this thread over
that.

Cheers,

Dirkjan
 
Old 10-01-2012, 08:24 PM
Rich Freeman
 
Default CIA replacement

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 4:19 PM, Dirkjan Ochtman <djc@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> Why exactly are we still using cvs? Rather than building enhancements
>> for cvs, why not just migrate everything to git, and spend our time
>> building the git hooks/etc necessary to make this work?
>
> The CIA/irc bot issue is pretty much entirely orthogonal to the git
> migration issues, so I don't think you should hijack this thread over
> that.

Yup, started a separate thread on -scm.

My main point was that any issues with cvs are short-term issues. Do
they really need to be fixed?

Rich
 
Old 10-01-2012, 08:35 PM
Diego Elio Pettenò
 
Default CIA replacement

On 01/10/2012 13:17, Peter Stuge wrote:
> Gregory M. Turner wrote:
>> > "fuck everyone, we are doing this, here is the changeover date."
> Well put. When is the date? I suggest October 5th, 18:00 UTC.

And I suggest we stop here. We have a different mailing list for this
and it's getting tiring.

--
Diego Elio Pettenò — Flameeyes
flameeyes@flameeyes.eu — http://blog.flameeyes.eu/
 
Old 10-01-2012, 08:54 PM
Rich Freeman
 
Default CIA replacement

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 4:35 PM, Diego Elio Petten
<flameeyes@flameeyes.eu> wrote:
>
> And I suggest we stop here. We have a different mailing list for this
> and it's getting tiring.

Ok, looking at the archives as far as I can tell nobody is really
monitoring that list (a post requesting a status update went
unanswered sep 9th).

So, rather than continuing to post here which seems to be annoying
people, I'll just issue a call to anybody who cares to move discussion
over to gentoo-scm.

That said, I plan to mark any blockers to the migration as resolved
where I don't see any remaining concerns unless somebody comments on
-scm or on the relevant bugs that this isn't a good idea.

I don't think we can keep the discussion off -dev forever though. It
seems like we're close to being able to implement, which means lots of
changes that impact all devs. I can't imagine that we'd want to
implement that without some kind of council vote. Perhaps the
appropriate approach is to propose a GLEP?

Rich
 
Old 10-02-2012, 04:40 AM
Ben de Groot
 
Default CIA replacement

On 1 October 2012 17:48, Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> wrote:
> Ben de Groot posted on Mon, 01 Oct 2012 16:14:25 +0800 as excerpted:
>
>> Since CIA.vc is dead [1], I think we should be looking into a
>> replacement service, or host our own [2].
>> Is infra already looking into this?
>>
>> 1: http://shadowm.rewound.net/blog/archives/245-CIA.vc-is-dead.html 2:
>> http://www.donarmstrong.com/posts/switching_to_kgb/
>
> This has been discussed previously.
>
> Thread: CIA.VC down for the count?
> Original post by blueness on August 23, last post on the 26th.
>
>
> Here's a link to the gmane thread:
>
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/79499
>
> Old interface:
>
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/79499
>
>
> It may be that there are further developments, but a read of the old
> thread (which you don't appear to have participated in and didn't mention
> so I'm assuming you missed) should help in any case.

I didn't actually miss that thread, but in that case it was a short
outage, and cia.vc came back the next day. People were pointed at the
-commits ML, and that was it.

Now that it's down for good (unless someone recreates it, but no news
of that so far), we need a more permanent solution. The -commits ML is
okay (tho I don't want to subscribe to such a high-volume ML), but we
miss an IRC interface. The website and statistics of cia.vc were nice
too.

The irker proxy was mentioned in this thread. I think we should look
into this. Unless someone has a better idea.

(which is why I brought this up in the first place)
--
Cheers,

Ben | yngwin
Gentoo developer
Gentoo Qt project lead, Gentoo Wiki admin
 
Old 10-02-2012, 06:32 AM
Fabian Groffen
 
Default CIA replacement

On 02-10-2012 12:40:20 +0800, Ben de Groot wrote:
> The irker proxy was mentioned in this thread. I think we should look
> into this. Unless someone has a better idea.

I think it might be more beneficial to try and relay -commits email to
irc.


--
Fabian Groffen
Gentoo on a different level
 

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