On Sat, 8 Sep 2012 10:37:49 -0700
Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:

> i'm surprised this hasn't happened already. currently at 18 users
> (and i'm adding another), so time to make global. i'll use the
> description:
> upnp: Enable support for the Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) network
> protocol

Not sure about that description. It's whole stack of protocols which
usually benefit from more refined description.

On the other hand, the local descriptions in the tree show that some
people simply don't care and you are guessing what it does anyway...

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny

Le samedi 08 septembre 2012 Ã* 20:29 +0200, MichaÅ‚ Górny a écrit :
> On Sat, 8 Sep 2012 10:37:49 -0700
> Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> > i'm surprised this hasn't happened already. currently at 18 users
> > (and i'm adding another), so time to make global. i'll use the
> > description:
> > upnp: Enable support for the Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) network
> > protocol
>
> Not sure about that description. It's whole stack of protocols which
> usually benefit from more refined description.
>
> On the other hand, the local descriptions in the tree show that some
> people simply don't care and you are guessing what it does anyway...
>
"Enable support for DLNA/UPnP" seems a good enough description. People
that care about it most likely will know two things about it:
* opens up ports on the router for torrents/games
* makes PC talk to TV/console for audio/video

I'll admit this does not fit tracker but that's because I wasn't
inspired when I had to find a USE flag to select a video metadata
extractor .

--
Gilles Dartiguelongue <eva@gentoo.org>
Gentoo

On Tue, 18 Sep 2012 00:55:16 +0200
Gilles Dartiguelongue <eva@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Le samedi 08 septembre 2012 Ã* 20:29 +0200, MichaÅ‚ Górny a écrit :
> > On Sat, 8 Sep 2012 10:37:49 -0700
> > Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >
> > > i'm surprised this hasn't happened already. currently at 18 users
> > > (and i'm adding another), so time to make global. i'll use the
> > > description:
> > > upnp: Enable support for the Universal Plug and Play (UPnP)
> > > network protocol
> >
> > Not sure about that description. It's whole stack of protocols which
> > usually benefit from more refined description.
> >
> > On the other hand, the local descriptions in the tree show that some
> > people simply don't care and you are guessing what it does anyway...
> >
> "Enable support for DLNA/UPnP" seems a good enough description. People
> that care about it most likely will know two things about it:
> * opens up ports on the router for torrents/games
> * makes PC talk to TV/console for audio/video

But these are two distinct things. The first one may be useful for me,
the second one won't.

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny

Le mardi 18 septembre 2012 Ã* 10:05 +0200, MichaÅ‚ Górny a écrit :
> On Tue, 18 Sep 2012 00:55:16 +0200
> Gilles Dartiguelongue <eva@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> > Le samedi 08 septembre 2012 Ã* 20:29 +0200, MichaÅ‚ Górny a écrit :
> > > On Sat, 8 Sep 2012 10:37:49 -0700
> > > Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > i'm surprised this hasn't happened already. currently at 18 users
> > > > (and i'm adding another), so time to make global. i'll use the
> > > > description:
> > > > upnp: Enable support for the Universal Plug and Play (UPnP)
> > > > network protocol
> > >
> > > Not sure about that description. It's whole stack of protocols which
> > > usually benefit from more refined description.
> > >
> > > On the other hand, the local descriptions in the tree show that some
> > > people simply don't care and you are guessing what it does anyway...
> > >
> > "Enable support for DLNA/UPnP" seems a good enough description. People
> > that care about it most likely will know two things about it:
> > * opens up ports on the router for torrents/games
> > * makes PC talk to TV/console for audio/video
>
> But these are two distinct things. The first one may be useful for me,
> the second one won't.

Let me just say that as a user, concerning this technology aggregate, I
really don't care, it has to "just work" . Now if you gather enough
momentum to split this flag and make other people on this list agree
with you, I'll be just fine with it

--
Gilles Dartiguelongue <eva@gentoo.org>
Gentoo

On 18/09/2012 16:50, Gilles Dartiguelongue wrote:
> Let me just say that as a user, concerning this technology aggregate, I
> really don't care, it has to "just work" . Now if you gather enough
> momentum to split this flag and make other people on this list agree
> with you, I'll be just fine with it

I'd be positive to splitting them. Especially because for instance in an
office you might care about port forwarding but won't care about DLNA.

Speaking of which, renaming (where applicable) upnp to dlna might be
more user friendly since usually you have the feature _advertised_ as
DLNA, not as UPnP!

--
Diego Elio Pettenò — Flameeyes
flameeyes@flameeyes.eu — http://blog.flameeyes.eu/

On Tue, 18 Sep 2012 16:55:29 -0700
Diego Elio Pettenò <flameeyes@flameeyes.eu> wrote:

> On 18/09/2012 16:50, Gilles Dartiguelongue wrote:
> > Let me just say that as a user, concerning this technology
> > aggregate, I really don't care, it has to "just work" . Now if
> > you gather enough momentum to split this flag and make other people
> > on this list agree with you, I'll be just fine with it
>
> I'd be positive to splitting them. Especially because for instance in
> an office you might care about port forwarding but won't care about
> DLNA.
>
> Speaking of which, renaming (where applicable) upnp to dlna might be
> more user friendly since usually you have the feature _advertised_ as
> DLNA, not as UPnP!

Just to make it clear:
- USE=upnp for upnp-igd or nat-pmp,
- USE=dlna for the video magic and so on.

Do I understand correctly?

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny

Le mercredi 19 septembre 2012 Ã* 10:19 +0200, MichaÅ‚ Górny a écrit :
>
> Just to make it clear:
> - USE=upnp for upnp-igd or nat-pmp,
> - USE=dlna for the video magic and so on.
>
> Do I understand correctly?

No, TV makers and others advertise UPnP as DLNA (digital living network
appliance) but that actually refers to both port forwarding (eg. used in
consoles) and to media streaming (eg. PC to TV).

Both flags should most likely start with dlna, then we need to figure
out a suffix

I propose dlna-av and dlna-network.

See [1] if somebody else feels inspired.

[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Living_Network_Alliance#DLNA_technology_co mponents
--
Gilles Dartiguelongue <eva@gentoo.org>
Gentoo

On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Gilles Dartiguelongue <eva@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Le mercredi 19 septembre 2012 Ã* 10:19 +0200, MichaÅ‚ Górny a écrit :
>>
>> Just to make it clear:
>> - USE=upnp for upnp-igd or nat-pmp,
>> - USE=dlna for the video magic and so on.
>>
>> Do I understand correctly?
>
> No, TV makers and others advertise UPnP as DLNA (digital living network
> appliance) but that actually refers to both port forwarding (eg. used in
> consoles) and to media streaming (eg. PC to TV).
>
> Both flags should most likely start with dlna, then we need to figure
> out a suffix
>
> I propose dlna-av and dlna-network.
>
> See [1] if somebody else feels inspired.
>
> [1]
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Living_Network_Alliance#DLNA_technology_co mponents
> --
> Gilles Dartiguelongue <eva@gentoo.org>
> Gentoo
>
>

Personally, I would prefer that the USE flags be named for the
protocol/feature they enable (upnp-foo) rather than the organization
that certifies devices (dlna-foo). Maybe I'm over-simplifying.

On Sun, 2012-09-30 at 17:44 +0200, Gilles Dartiguelongue wrote:
> Le mercredi 19 septembre 2012 Ã* 10:19 +0200, MichaÅ‚ Górny a écrit :
> >
> > Just to make it clear:
> > - USE=upnp for upnp-igd or nat-pmp,
> > - USE=dlna for the video magic and so on.
> >
> > Do I understand correctly?
>
> No, TV makers and others advertise UPnP as DLNA (digital living network
> appliance) but that actually refers to both port forwarding (eg. used in
> consoles) and to media streaming (eg. PC to TV).

DLNA is actually a subset of UPnP with some strict certification rules.

--
Olivier Crête
tester@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer

On Sun, 30 Sep 2012 17:44:42 +0200
Gilles Dartiguelongue <eva@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Le mercredi 19 septembre 2012 Ã* 10:19 +0200, MichaÅ‚ Górny a écrit :
> >
> > Just to make it clear:
> > - USE=upnp for upnp-igd or nat-pmp,
> > - USE=dlna for the video magic and so on.
> >
> > Do I understand correctly?
>
> No, TV makers and others advertise UPnP as DLNA (digital living network
> appliance) but that actually refers to both port forwarding (eg. used in
> consoles) and to media streaming (eg. PC to TV).
>
> Both flags should most likely start with dlna, then we need to figure
> out a suffix
>
> I propose dlna-av and dlna-network.

Not necessarily DLNA, since port forwarding is often UPnP or NAT-PMP
(with the latter having nothing to DLNA).

We could go for USE=port-forwarding or something shorter but I guess
most people think of it just as 'upnp'. Or 'upnp-igd', or just 'igd'.

Similarly, 'upnp-av' for how gupnp calls it. Or something for streaming.

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny