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Old 08-31-2012, 10:18 PM
Fabio Erculiani
 
Default HDEPEND (host dependencies for cross-compilation) for EAPI 5?

On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 11:58 PM, Zac Medico <zmedico@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> For optional dependencies, I'm pretty happy with the "runtime-switchable
> USE flags" proposal:
>
> https://gist.github.com/2945569

runtime-switchable USE flags for optional dependencies o.O? It sounds
like using a spoon to eat spaghetti to me.
I think SDEPEND is a much simpler approach to the issue, why
introducing a new kind of USE flags to address what really belongs to
*DEPEND?

> --
> Thanks,
> Zac
>



--
Fabio Erculiani
 
Old 08-31-2012, 10:58 PM
Zac Medico
 
Default HDEPEND (host dependencies for cross-compilation) for EAPI 5?

On 08/31/2012 03:15 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 14:58:49 -0700
> Zac Medico <zmedico@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> For optional dependencies, I'm pretty happy with the
>> "runtime-switchable USE flags" proposal:
>>
>> https://gist.github.com/2945569
>
> Do we have an implementation of this yet? I have extreme doubts about
> the viability of the idea...

No, but there's a request here:

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=424283
--
Thanks,
Zac
 
Old 08-31-2012, 10:59 PM
Michał Górny
 
Default HDEPEND (host dependencies for cross-compilation) for EAPI 5?

On Sat, 1 Sep 2012 00:18:07 +0200
Fabio Erculiani <lxnay@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 11:58 PM, Zac Medico <zmedico@gentoo.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > For optional dependencies, I'm pretty happy with the
> > "runtime-switchable USE flags" proposal:
> >
> > https://gist.github.com/2945569
>
> runtime-switchable USE flags for optional dependencies o.O? It sounds
> like using a spoon to eat spaghetti to me.
> I think SDEPEND is a much simpler approach to the issue, why
> introducing a new kind of USE flags to address what really belongs to
> *DEPEND?

Because otherwise you can't use USE flags. The rationale is there.


--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
 
Old 08-31-2012, 11:00 PM
Michał Górny
 
Default HDEPEND (host dependencies for cross-compilation) for EAPI 5?

On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 14:58:49 -0700
Zac Medico <zmedico@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On 08/31/2012 02:40 PM, Fabio Erculiani wrote:
> > I like this as well.
> > However, since we're going to introduce a *DEPEND split, how about
> > splitting PDEPEND as well?
> >
> > As far as I've seen, PDEPEND has two (or more?) different meanings:
> > - advisory (for instance, informing users about plugins)
> > - cycle-breaking to help the dependency solver
> >
> > Would it be possible to add support for ODEPEND (as in "optional"
> > dependencies -- I don't really care about the variable name) as
> > well? This would be quite beneficial under certain circumstances.
> > One of these is when ebuilds are shipped with PDEPENDs which are
> > not required at runtime nor for cycle-breaking...
> >
> > Another scenario in where ODEPEND would be nice to have is with
> > systemd init files pulled in by USE=systemd (and generally use? (
> > sys-apps/systemd ) in *DEPEND). Providing full systemd support for
> > all the packages without forcing users to have it installed, given
> > that openrc is the de-facto standard init system in Gentoo (and we
> > don't have any openrc? ( sys-apps/openrc )), would be a nice
> > features for binpkg repos. Users could then choose to enable or
> > disable ODEPEND during dependencies calculation via make.conf or
> > argv.
> >
> > I don't want to diverge too much from the HDEPEND discussion, but I
> > think that if we're going to split *DEPEND, it might be a good
> > opportunity to do it right _once_ and _for all_.
>
> For optional dependencies, I'm pretty happy with the
> "runtime-switchable USE flags" proposal:
>
> https://gist.github.com/2945569

The canonical URI is: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/glep/glep-0062.html

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
 
Old 08-31-2012, 11:03 PM
Zac Medico
 
Default HDEPEND (host dependencies for cross-compilation) for EAPI 5?

On 08/31/2012 03:18 PM, Fabio Erculiani wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 11:58 PM, Zac Medico <zmedico@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>
>> For optional dependencies, I'm pretty happy with the "runtime-switchable
>> USE flags" proposal:
>>
>> https://gist.github.com/2945569
>
> runtime-switchable USE flags for optional dependencies o.O? It sounds
> like using a spoon to eat spaghetti to me.

All suggested deps are not equal, so USE flags give you the ability to
pick and choose the ones that you want.

> I think SDEPEND is a much simpler approach to the issue, why
> introducing a new kind of USE flags to address what really belongs to
> *DEPEND?

I guess we could combine the two ideas if we allow USE conditionals
inside SDEPEND.
--
Thanks,
Zac
 
Old 08-31-2012, 11:07 PM
Ciaran McCreesh
 
Default HDEPEND (host dependencies for cross-compilation) for EAPI 5?

On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 16:03:25 -0700
Zac Medico <zmedico@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > runtime-switchable USE flags for optional dependencies o.O? It
> > sounds like using a spoon to eat spaghetti to me.
>
> All suggested deps are not equal, so USE flags give you the ability to
> pick and choose the ones that you want.

So does --take / --ignore with suggested dependencies, with the added
advantage that suggested packages don't end up being brought in without
user request just because a user has a particular use flag enabled
globally.

--
Ciaran McCreesh
 
Old 08-31-2012, 11:09 PM
Ciaran McCreesh
 
Default HDEPEND (host dependencies for cross-compilation) for EAPI 5?

On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 16:03:25 -0700
Zac Medico <zmedico@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > I think SDEPEND is a much simpler approach to the issue, why
> > introducing a new kind of USE flags to address what really belongs
> > to *DEPEND?
>
> I guess we could combine the two ideas if we allow USE conditionals
> inside SDEPEND.

But you don't want to do that... The point of suggestions is that they
can be considered on their own merits.

--
Ciaran McCreesh
 
Old 09-01-2012, 01:45 AM
Zac Medico
 
Default HDEPEND (host dependencies for cross-compilation) for EAPI 5?

On 08/31/2012 04:07 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 16:03:25 -0700
> Zac Medico <zmedico@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>> runtime-switchable USE flags for optional dependencies o.O? It
>>> sounds like using a spoon to eat spaghetti to me.
>>
>> All suggested deps are not equal, so USE flags give you the ability to
>> pick and choose the ones that you want.
>
> So does --take / --ignore with suggested dependencies, with the added
> advantage that suggested packages don't end up being brought in without
> user request just because a user has a particular use flag enabled
> globally.

If the USE flags have ambiguous meanings doesn't that mean that they've
been poorly named?
--
Thanks,
Zac
 
Old 09-01-2012, 07:42 AM
Michał Górny
 
Default HDEPEND (host dependencies for cross-compilation) for EAPI 5?

On Sat, 1 Sep 2012 00:07:38 +0100
Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccreesh@googlemail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 16:03:25 -0700
> Zac Medico <zmedico@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > runtime-switchable USE flags for optional dependencies o.O? It
> > > sounds like using a spoon to eat spaghetti to me.
> >
> > All suggested deps are not equal, so USE flags give you the ability
> > to pick and choose the ones that you want.
>
> So does --take / --ignore with suggested dependencies, with the added
> advantage that suggested packages don't end up being brought in
> without user request just because a user has a particular use flag
> enabled globally.

Yes because runtime SSL support is *so much* different than build-time
one.

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
 
Old 09-01-2012, 04:00 PM
Ciaran McCreesh
 
Default HDEPEND (host dependencies for cross-compilation) for EAPI 5?

On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 18:45:59 -0700
Zac Medico <zmedico@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On 08/31/2012 04:07 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 16:03:25 -0700
> > Zac Medico <zmedico@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >>> runtime-switchable USE flags for optional dependencies o.O? It
> >>> sounds like using a spoon to eat spaghetti to me.
> >>
> >> All suggested deps are not equal, so USE flags give you the
> >> ability to pick and choose the ones that you want.
> >
> > So does --take / --ignore with suggested dependencies, with the
> > added advantage that suggested packages don't end up being brought
> > in without user request just because a user has a particular use
> > flag enabled globally.
>
> If the USE flags have ambiguous meanings doesn't that mean that
> they've been poorly named?

It's not like that. It's that in practice, suggestions are mostly for a
particular specific feature (such as git-send-email support), not for a
general concept (such as email in general).

It also defeats the point of suggestions, if they're not made visible.
For users, suggestions should look like suggestions, and they should
be able to see them easily.

--
Ciaran McCreesh
 

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