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Old 08-08-2012, 02:31 PM
Patrick Lauer
 
Default Global Systemd USE Flag

On 08/08/12 22:15, Michał Górny wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Aug 2012 15:11:42 +0200
> "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> wrote:
[snip]
>
> Yowza! All the packages that provide systemd unit files are installing
> them?! But I don't even use systemd. I don't want this cruft on my
> system.
>
> Proposal: global USE flag for systemd, just like there's one for
> openrc.
> INSTALL_MASK=/usr/lib/systemd
>
> And live happy to the day you notice your system no longer boots.
>
That doesn't work anymore - "improvement" in udev-186:

equery f udev | grep udevd

/usr/lib/systemd/systemd-udevd


And as long as our maintainers refuse to use the proper paths this is
just one of the little things that makes life more exciting for us.

Can we please add some sanity back?
 
Old 08-08-2012, 02:32 PM
"Jason A. Donenfeld"
 
Default Global Systemd USE Flag

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Patrick Lauer <patrick@gentoo.org> wrote:
> And as long as our maintainers refuse to use the proper paths this is
> just one of the little things that makes life more exciting for us.
>
> Can we please add some sanity back?

Exactly. Right now, with no USE flag, and no differentiation,
maintainers are kind of just stepping on each others toes. There's
simply no protocol for dealing with the increasingly aggressive
upstream systemdification. With a global USE flags, maintainers can
then think about things in terms of "okay, the systemd world likes it
this way; the rest of the world likes it this way... therefore: use
systemd && kitten_killer".
 
Old 08-08-2012, 02:32 PM
Michał Górny
 
Default Global Systemd USE Flag

On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 22:31:40 +0800
Patrick Lauer <patrick@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On 08/08/12 22:15, Michał Górny wrote:
> > On Wed, 8 Aug 2012 15:11:42 +0200
> > "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> wrote:
> [snip]
> >
> > Yowza! All the packages that provide systemd unit files are
> > installing them?! But I don't even use systemd. I don't want this
> > cruft on my system.
> >
> > Proposal: global USE flag for systemd, just like there's one for
> > openrc.
> > INSTALL_MASK=/usr/lib/systemd
> >
> > And live happy to the day you notice your system no longer boots.
> >
> That doesn't work anymore - "improvement" in udev-186:
>
> equery f udev | grep udevd
>
> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-udevd

Yes, sorry, I was lazy and didn't add '/system' there. Forgot about
udev.

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
 
Old 08-08-2012, 02:33 PM
Michał Górny
 
Default Global Systemd USE Flag

On Wed, 8 Aug 2012 16:22:47 +0200
"Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org>
> wrote:
> > INSTALL_MASK=/usr/lib/systemd
>
> As an unrelated side note, in case any one on the internet finds this
> thread trying to "solve" this issue, it's worth pointing out that
> since udev now installs that directory, the INSTALL_MASK should
> actually be /usr/lib/systemd/system.

You are right. In case users really intend to use that, they may be
better using app-portage/install-mask, and:

$ install-mask -a systemd

which will add just the right path.

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
 
Old 08-08-2012, 02:35 PM
"Jason A. Donenfeld"
 
Default Global Systemd USE Flag

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 4:33 PM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> You are right. In case users really intend to use that, they may be
> better using app-portage/install-mask, and:
>
> $ install-mask -a systemd
>
> which will add just the right path.

Still misses the point. USE flags were invented to deal with these
options. On a default install, which uses OpenRC, users shouldn't have
to then emerge an additional program to add more configuration in
order to have a clean system.
 
Old 08-08-2012, 02:36 PM
Michał Górny
 
Default Global Systemd USE Flag

On Wed, 8 Aug 2012 16:20:55 +0200
"Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org>
> wrote:
> > INSTALL_MASK=/usr/lib/systemd
> >
> > And live happy to the day you notice your system no longer boots.
>
> This is a nice bandaid, and sure, it "solves" the immediate issue...
> but it doesn't actually solve the actual issue: when packages
> optionally install unwanted bloat, we make them an option via a USE
> flag. In this case, especially, since systemd isn't even the default
> (nor officially supported, whatever that amounts to), users certainly
> should not have to manually add an install mask to make portage do
> what it already should do.
>
> Besides, as systemd gains momentum, we can probably expect that
> various pieces of software will have options to enable a systemd mode
> or a systemd build, or what have you, and then in this case, a global
> USE flag becomes even more imperative.

The flag is there already, and it is used whenever it involves
additional dependencies or in any other way makes the package
incompatible with non-systemd systems.

We aren't going to add USE flags which don't do anything. That topic
was discussed a thousand times, and rising it once more won't change
our decision.

Similarly, bash-completion flag will be gone at some point.

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
 
Old 08-08-2012, 02:37 PM
Richard Yao
 
Default Global Systemd USE Flag

On 08/08/2012 10:31 AM, Patrick Lauer wrote:
> On 08/08/12 22:15, Michał Górny wrote:
>> On Wed, 8 Aug 2012 15:11:42 +0200
>> "Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> wrote:
> [snip]
>>
>> Yowza! All the packages that provide systemd unit files are installing
>> them?! But I don't even use systemd. I don't want this cruft on my
>> system.
>>
>> Proposal: global USE flag for systemd, just like there's one for
>> openrc.
>> INSTALL_MASK=/usr/lib/systemd
>>
>> And live happy to the day you notice your system no longer boots.
>>
> That doesn't work anymore - "improvement" in udev-186:
>
> equery f udev | grep udevd
>
> /usr/lib/systemd/systemd-udevd
>
>
> And as long as our maintainers refuse to use the proper paths this is
> just one of the little things that makes life more exciting for us.
>
> Can we please add some sanity back?
>

I second this suggestion.
 
Old 08-08-2012, 02:38 PM
"Jason A. Donenfeld"
 
Default Global Systemd USE Flag

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> We aren't going to add USE flags which don't do anything. That topic
> was discussed a thousand times, and rising it once more won't change
> our decision.
>
> Similarly, bash-completion flag will be gone at some point.

Everyone has bash. Not everyone has systemd.
 
Old 08-08-2012, 02:43 PM
Michał Górny
 
Default Global Systemd USE Flag

On Wed, 8 Aug 2012 16:35:22 +0200
"Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 4:33 PM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org>
> wrote:
> > You are right. In case users really intend to use that, they may be
> > better using app-portage/install-mask, and:
> >
> > $ install-mask -a systemd
> >
> > which will add just the right path.
>
> Still misses the point. USE flags were invented to deal with these
> options. On a default install, which uses OpenRC, users shouldn't have
> to then emerge an additional program to add more configuration in
> order to have a clean system.

No, they weren't.

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
 
Old 08-08-2012, 02:45 PM
Michał Górny
 
Default Global Systemd USE Flag

On Wed, 8 Aug 2012 16:38:07 +0200
"Jason A. Donenfeld" <Jason@zx2c4.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org>
> wrote:
> > We aren't going to add USE flags which don't do anything. That topic
> > was discussed a thousand times, and rising it once more won't change
> > our decision.
> >
> > Similarly, bash-completion flag will be gone at some point.
>
> Everyone has bash. Not everyone has systemd.

Not everyone uses bash. Not everyone cares at all about
bash-completion. What is your point?

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
 

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