On Mon, 6 Aug 2012 08:05:42 -0400
Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 7:56 AM, Fabian Groffen <grobian@gentoo.org>
> wrote:
> > While OpenRC is likely perfectly capable of starting/stopping
> > daemons as a normal user (with some tweaks), I expect systemd
> > replacing init, to already have a fair bit of isssues with being
> > just a normal unprivileged user. I may be wrong, of course.
> > However, the notorious reputation of that piece of software aiming
> > for system-domination doesn't really make it sound to me like it
> > ever will be a good match for Prefix.
>
> Yup, hence my final comment. However, I suspect that the
> multitude-of-init-systems is going to be a somewhat temporary
> condition for a few years, and after that with the amount of vertical
> integration everybody is pushing one may win out. If that happens,
> we'll all be using whatever that ends up being, regardless of whether
> it is a good match for Prefix. If the world remains heterogeneous
> then most likely Gentoo will remain as such also, and other than all
> the package maintainers having to supply 3 different init scripts for
> their pacakges all will be well for Prefix.

I would be really happy if openrc supported systemd units. Or any other
good unit format but it's probably too late to invent anything here...


--
Best regards,
Michał Górny

On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 13:56 +0200, Fabian Groffen wrote:
> While OpenRC is likely perfectly capable of starting/stopping daemons as
> a normal user (with some tweaks), I expect systemd replacing init, to
> already have a fair bit of isssues with being just a normal unprivileged
> user. I may be wrong, of course. However, the notorious reputation of
> that piece of software aiming for system-domination doesn't really make
> it sound to me like it ever will be a good match for Prefix.

You happen to be wrong. systemd runs perfectly as non-pid-1. Part of
Lennart's well published plan for world domination is to use systemd as
a session manager, so it would replace gnome-session, etc. Lennart &
friends are currently pushing kernel patches to make it fully recursive
(such as being able to re-parent orphaned processes to the session's
systemd instead of the global one.

--
Olivier Crête
tester@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer

On 06-08-2012 11:16:52 -0700, Olivier Crête wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 13:56 +0200, Fabian Groffen wrote:
> > While OpenRC is likely perfectly capable of starting/stopping daemons as
> > a normal user (with some tweaks), I expect systemd replacing init, to
> > already have a fair bit of isssues with being just a normal unprivileged
> > user. I may be wrong, of course. However, the notorious reputation of
> > that piece of software aiming for system-domination doesn't really make
> > it sound to me like it ever will be a good match for Prefix.
>
> You happen to be wrong. systemd runs perfectly as non-pid-1. Part of
> Lennart's well published plan for world domination is to use systemd as
> a session manager, so it would replace gnome-session, etc. Lennart &
> friends are currently pushing kernel patches to make it fully recursive
> (such as being able to re-parent orphaned processes to the session's
> systemd instead of the global one.

Good to know that I'm wrong. I didn't know they pursued world
domination too. I wonder how "kernel patches" go well together with
"being in an environment unknown to you, or that you cannot control at
all", though. Seems there is interest for it to support Prefix then.
Looking forward to patches and solutions to complement the challenges of
this year's GSoC task.


--
Fabian Groffen
Gentoo on a different level

On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 20:28 +0200, Fabian Groffen wrote:
> On 06-08-2012 11:16:52 -0700, Olivier Crête wrote:
> > On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 13:56 +0200, Fabian Groffen wrote:
> > > While OpenRC is likely perfectly capable of starting/stopping daemons as
> > > a normal user (with some tweaks), I expect systemd replacing init, to
> > > already have a fair bit of isssues with being just a normal unprivileged
> > > user. I may be wrong, of course. However, the notorious reputation of
> > > that piece of software aiming for system-domination doesn't really make
> > > it sound to me like it ever will be a good match for Prefix.
> >
> > You happen to be wrong. systemd runs perfectly as non-pid-1. Part of
> > Lennart's well published plan for world domination is to use systemd as
> > a session manager, so it would replace gnome-session, etc. Lennart &
> > friends are currently pushing kernel patches to make it fully recursive
> > (such as being able to re-parent orphaned processes to the session's
> > systemd instead of the global one.
>
> Good to know that I'm wrong. I didn't know they pursued world
> domination too. I wonder how "kernel patches" go well together with
> "being in an environment unknown to you, or that you cannot control at
> all", though. Seems there is interest for it to support Prefix then.
> Looking forward to patches and solutions to complement the challenges of
> this year's GSoC task.

I think they only want to support systemd-in-systemd, not
systemd-in-random-init-system.

--
Olivier Crête
tester@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer

On 06-08-2012 11:40:57 -0700, Olivier Crête wrote:
> I think they only want to support systemd-in-systemd, not
> systemd-in-random-init-system.

I think neither fits Prefix. So we're back at the starting position.


--
Fabian Groffen
Gentoo on a different level