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Old 08-03-2012, 02:59 PM
Matthew Summers
 
Default UTF-8 locale by default

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Mike Gilbert <floppym@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 2:21 PM, Diego Elio Pettenò
> <flameeyes@flameeyes.eu> wrote:
>> On 01/08/2012 23:42, Fabian Groffen wrote:
>>> Honestly, if some asian person has whatever charset that I often find in
>>> spam messages, but is not UTF-8, are you then going to tell that person
>>> to switch to UTF-8 to get those python packages emerged? I hope not.
>>
>> Tell that to the Python team I guess. My tinderbox _has_ utf8 locales
>> available, but doesn't set in by default -> Python stuff fails to build
>> or test -> not going to be fixed with "change your locale" reasoning.
>>
>> Is it mental? Yes.
>> Would I like that to change? Yes.
>> Do I care ẃhether that's through the use of cluebyfour on the Python
>> team or by setting an utf-8 locale by default? Not in the least.
>>
>
> Please apply the cluebyfour to the upstream developers of python and
> python modules. :-)
>
> I do try to fix unicode problems if I run into them. However,
> sometimes it just isn't worth the effort.
>

Python upstream is doing what they think is best in using unicode.

That said, what if we just temporarily set a locale in the ebuild for
running tests and elsewhere? Is this unreasonable or impossible? It
might not be a great solution, this method, since users' stuff will
still break.

Further, I support the use of C.UTF-8 when it is ready. It seems like
the lowest common denominator to me.


--
Matthew W. Summers
Gentoo Foundation Inc.
 
Old 08-03-2012, 03:47 PM
Michał Górny
 
Default UTF-8 locale by default

On Fri, 3 Aug 2012 09:59:42 -0500
Matthew Summers <quantumsummers@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Mike Gilbert <floppym@gentoo.org>
> wrote:
> > On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 2:21 PM, Diego Elio Pettenò
> > <flameeyes@flameeyes.eu> wrote:
> >> On 01/08/2012 23:42, Fabian Groffen wrote:
> >>> Honestly, if some asian person has whatever charset that I often
> >>> find in spam messages, but is not UTF-8, are you then going to
> >>> tell that person to switch to UTF-8 to get those python packages
> >>> emerged? I hope not.
> >>
> >> Tell that to the Python team I guess. My tinderbox _has_ utf8
> >> locales available, but doesn't set in by default -> Python stuff
> >> fails to build or test -> not going to be fixed with "change your
> >> locale" reasoning.
> >>
> >> Is it mental? Yes.
> >> Would I like that to change? Yes.
> >> Do I care ẃhether that's through the use of cluebyfour on the
> >> Python team or by setting an utf-8 locale by default? Not in the
> >> least.
> >>
> >
> > Please apply the cluebyfour to the upstream developers of python and
> > python modules. :-)
> >
> > I do try to fix unicode problems if I run into them. However,
> > sometimes it just isn't worth the effort.
> >
>
> Python upstream is doing what they think is best in using unicode.
>
> That said, what if we just temporarily set a locale in the ebuild for
> running tests and elsewhere? Is this unreasonable or impossible? It
> might not be a great solution, this method, since users' stuff will
> still break.

It is impossible because you can't know which locale a particular
system has available. AFAIK there's no 'it-will-always-work' choice;
unless we're going to enforce generating some common locale, or do very
ugly things.

>
> Further, I support the use of C.UTF-8 when it is ready. It seems like
> the lowest common denominator to me.

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
 
Old 08-03-2012, 04:54 PM
Alexis Ballier
 
Default UTF-8 locale by default

On Fri, 3 Aug 2012 17:47:24 +0200
Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > Python upstream is doing what they think is best in using unicode.
> >
> > That said, what if we just temporarily set a locale in the ebuild
> > for running tests and elsewhere? Is this unreasonable or
> > impossible? It might not be a great solution, this method, since
> > users' stuff will still break.
>
> It is impossible because you can't know which locale a particular
> system has available. AFAIK there's no 'it-will-always-work' choice;
> unless we're going to enforce generating some common locale, or do
> very ugly things.

I don't think anyone will object to enforcing a given locale to be
present, even en_US.UTF-8; people will object if they have to use that
locale.

Maybe locale-gen can even generate it on-the-fly in $T, I don't know.

A.
 
Old 08-03-2012, 05:09 PM
Diego Elio Pettenò
 
Default UTF-8 locale by default

On 03/08/2012 09:54, Alexis Ballier wrote:
> I don't think anyone will object to enforcing a given locale to be
> present, even en_US.UTF-8; people will object if they have to use that
> locale.
>
> Maybe locale-gen can even generate it on-the-fly in $T, I don't know.

Agreed. And there _is_ a way to tell which locales are available:
`locale -a`.

--
Diego Elio Pettenò — Flameeyes
flameeyes@flameeyes.eu — http://blog.flameeyes.eu/
 
Old 08-08-2012, 01:58 AM
Dan Douglas
 
Default UTF-8 locale by default

On Friday, August 03, 2012 07:16:45 AM Luca Barbato wrote:
> On 07/27/2012 07:24 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > yes, and i'm waiting on the POSIX group to formalize C.UTF-8. that's the
only
> > real option in my mind for making unicode the default. any other
> > amalgamations of various locales is ugly as sin.
>
> When they meet? I'd be fine with a pre-release =P
>
> lu
>

2008 TC1 is just finishing up balloting as we speak. If this isn't already in
there you may be in for a long wait. Feel free to subscribe to the austin-
group lists -- It's open to anyone. A calendar with the teleconference
schedule is available.
--
Dan Douglas
 

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