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Old 07-12-2012, 02:20 PM
Michał Górny
 
Default rfc: udev-rules.eclass

On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 09:43:57 -0400
Ian Stakenvicius <axs@gentoo.org> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On 12/07/12 01:01 AM, Ben de Groot wrote:
> > On 12 July 2012 07:42, William Hubbs <williamh@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >> On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 10:57:42PM +0200, Diego Elio Pettenò
> >> wrote:
> >>> Il 11/07/2012 21:11, William Hubbs ha scritto:
> >>>> I am about to release udev-186-r1, which will move everything
> >>>> currently in /lib/udev to /usr/lib/udev.
> >>>
> >>> Unless you're going to establish a symlink, please keep it
> >>> under p.mask until everything is using some common code —
> >>> otherwise things _will_ break.
> >>
> >> Since multiple packages put things in /lib/udev, I'm not sure it
> >> is possible to establish a symlink from /lib/udev to
> >> /usr/lib/udev if that's what you mean; I'll look into it though.
> >
> > Couldn't you, on udev upgrade, move everything in /lib/udev to
> > /usr/lib/udev, and then make the symlink? Seems fairly simple to
> > me, but maybe I'm overlooking something?
> >
>
> A symlink isn't a good idea as, iirc, the new udev still -reads- from
> both /usr/lib/udev and /lib/udev ..

Does it? I wasn't able to reproduce and wanted to start convincing Kay
to let it do that...


--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
 
Old 07-12-2012, 02:22 PM
Michał Górny
 
Default rfc: udev-rules.eclass

On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 14:11:42 -0500
William Hubbs <williamh@gentoo.org> wrote:

> # @FUNCTION: _udev_get_rulesdir
> # @INTERNAL
> # @DESCRIPTION:
> # Get unprefixed udev rules directory.
> _udev_get_rulesdir() {
> local dir
> if has_version '<sys-fs/udev-186-r1'; then
> dir=/lib/udev/rules.d
> else
> dir=/usr/lib/udev/rules.d
> fi
> echo -n $dir
> }

For now, I think it would be better to just use /lib/udev/rules.d. We
can decide on moving the rules later.

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
 
Old 07-12-2012, 02:34 PM
Ian Stakenvicius
 
Default rfc: udev-rules.eclass

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On 12/07/12 10:19 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 09:47:33 -0400 Ian Stakenvicius
> <axs@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> Updating vdb shouldn't be an issue here, as long as pkg_postinst
>> doesn't crash mid-stream. Is the vdb common between package
>> managers or does each one have a different solution?
>
> Yes, it is common because for many years people keep noticing it
> is common and using that. In other words, for many there is a
> failing attempt to stop relying on its format.
>

..i'm not following this -- so it's common (ie, portage, paludis, etc
all use it) because it's always been there?

Anyways, if all the package managers do use it, then there isn't any
reason at this juncture to not handle this via an update to vdb. If
in the future different package managers use something different, then
we'd need to have individual vdb-update scripts for each (differing)
pms, but unless I misread you this is currently a non-issue..
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Old 07-12-2012, 02:34 PM
Ian Stakenvicius
 
Default rfc: udev-rules.eclass

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 12/07/12 10:20 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 09:43:57 -0400 Ian Stakenvicius
> <axs@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
>>
>> On 12/07/12 01:01 AM, Ben de Groot wrote:
>>> On 12 July 2012 07:42, William Hubbs <williamh@gentoo.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 10:57:42PM +0200, Diego Elio Pettenò
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Il 11/07/2012 21:11, William Hubbs ha scritto:
>>>>>> I am about to release udev-186-r1, which will move
>>>>>> everything currently in /lib/udev to /usr/lib/udev.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless you're going to establish a symlink, please keep it
>>>>> under p.mask until everything is using some common code —
>>>>> otherwise things _will_ break.
>>>>
>>>> Since multiple packages put things in /lib/udev, I'm not sure
>>>> it is possible to establish a symlink from /lib/udev to
>>>> /usr/lib/udev if that's what you mean; I'll look into it
>>>> though.
>>>
>>> Couldn't you, on udev upgrade, move everything in /lib/udev to
>>> /usr/lib/udev, and then make the symlink? Seems fairly simple
>>> to me, but maybe I'm overlooking something?
>>>
>>
>> A symlink isn't a good idea as, iirc, the new udev still -reads-
>> from both /usr/lib/udev and /lib/udev ..
>
> Does it? I wasn't able to reproduce and wanted to start convincing
> Kay to let it do that...
>
>

..i was going by your statement, i guess i misread you (thought you
said that it did, not that it should).. Sorry!

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Old 07-12-2012, 02:35 PM
William Hubbs
 
Default rfc: udev-rules.eclass

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 04:22:20PM +0200, Michał Górny wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 14:11:42 -0500
> William Hubbs <williamh@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> > # @FUNCTION: _udev_get_rulesdir
> > # @INTERNAL
> > # @DESCRIPTION:
> > # Get unprefixed udev rules directory.
> > _udev_get_rulesdir() {
> > local dir
> > if has_version '<sys-fs/udev-186-r1'; then
> > dir=/lib/udev/rules.d
> > else
> > dir=/usr/lib/udev/rules.d
> > fi
> > echo -n $dir
> > }
>
> For now, I think it would be better to just use /lib/udev/rules.d. We
> can decide on moving the rules later.

We can hold off on this for udev-186. Sometime soon though we will need
to move the rools.

The more I think about it it will do best to be a hard dependency on
>=sys-fs/udev-187 and not worry about the whole eclass issue.

William
 
Old 07-12-2012, 02:37 PM
Ciaran McCreesh
 
Default rfc: udev-rules.eclass

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On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 10:34:12 -0400
Ian Stakenvicius <axs@gentoo.org> wrote:
> ..i'm not following this -- so it's common (ie, portage, paludis, etc
> all use it) because it's always been there?

It's sort of commonish because there's some disgusting code in some
eclasses that sort of relies upon its format being sort of right. We
have yet to manage to do away with that code, which is annoying,
because VDB's format stinks.

- --
Ciaran McCreesh

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Old 07-12-2012, 03:02 PM
Michał Górny
 
Default rfc: udev-rules.eclass

On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 10:34:56 -0400
Ian Stakenvicius <axs@gentoo.org> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On 12/07/12 10:20 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> > On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 09:43:57 -0400 Ian Stakenvicius
> > <axs@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >
> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
> >>
> >> On 12/07/12 01:01 AM, Ben de Groot wrote:
> >>> On 12 July 2012 07:42, William Hubbs <williamh@gentoo.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 10:57:42PM +0200, Diego Elio Pettenò
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> Il 11/07/2012 21:11, William Hubbs ha scritto:
> >>>>>> I am about to release udev-186-r1, which will move
> >>>>>> everything currently in /lib/udev to /usr/lib/udev.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Unless you're going to establish a symlink, please keep it
> >>>>> under p.mask until everything is using some common code —
> >>>>> otherwise things _will_ break.
> >>>>
> >>>> Since multiple packages put things in /lib/udev, I'm not sure
> >>>> it is possible to establish a symlink from /lib/udev to
> >>>> /usr/lib/udev if that's what you mean; I'll look into it
> >>>> though.
> >>>
> >>> Couldn't you, on udev upgrade, move everything in /lib/udev to
> >>> /usr/lib/udev, and then make the symlink? Seems fairly simple
> >>> to me, but maybe I'm overlooking something?
> >>>
> >>
> >> A symlink isn't a good idea as, iirc, the new udev still -reads-
> >> from both /usr/lib/udev and /lib/udev ..
> >
> > Does it? I wasn't able to reproduce and wanted to start convincing
> > Kay to let it do that...
> >
> >
>
> ..i was going by your statement, i guess i misread you (thought you
> said that it did, not that it should).. Sorry!

I will try to convince upstream to support it that way.

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
 
Old 07-12-2012, 04:24 PM
Alexis Ballier
 
Default rfc: udev-rules.eclass

On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 18:48:08 -0500
William Hubbs <williamh@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 04:59:11PM -0400, Alexis Ballier wrote:
> > How do you plan to handle the following:
> > - foo installs an udev rule
> > - install foo with old udev
> > - upgrade udev
> >
> > are rules installed by foo used by new udev ?
>
> No, they wouldn't be; that is a good reason to question the value of
> the eclass itself. Maybe the correct way to do this is to forget the
> eclass and just file bugs against packages that break having them
> move their rules to the new location and set a dependency on the
> newer udev.
>
> This would have to be a rev bump for the broken packages.

this sounds heavy for only changing the location of a file, but that's
the only sane solution i can think of

A.
 
Old 07-12-2012, 04:30 PM
Alexis Ballier
 
Default rfc: udev-rules.eclass

On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 20:41:04 -0700
Brian Dolbec <dolsen@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 2012-07-11 at 18:48 -0500, William Hubbs wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 04:59:11PM -0400, Alexis Ballier wrote:
> > > How do you plan to handle the following:
> > > - foo installs an udev rule
> > > - install foo with old udev
> > > - upgrade udev
> > >
> > > are rules installed by foo used by new udev ?
> >
> > No, they wouldn't be; that is a good reason to question the value
> > of the eclass itself. Maybe the correct way to do this is to forget
> > the eclass and just file bugs against packages that break having
> > them move their rules to the new location and set a dependency on
> > the newer udev.
> >
> > This would have to be a rev bump for the broken packages.
> >
> > William
> >
> > >
> > > A.
> > >
>
> So, does that mean the rule itself changes or just the location change
> is needed?
>
> If it is just a location change, a fairly simple udev-updater script
> would do it.
[...]

how do you handle the package manager database containing the location
of the file ?

A.
 
Old 07-12-2012, 04:42 PM
Alexis Ballier
 
Default rfc: udev-rules.eclass

On Wed, 11 Jul 2012 19:50:42 -0700
Zac Medico <zmedico@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On 07/11/2012 07:25 PM, Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina wrote:
> > On 07/11/2012 07:48 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
> >> On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 04:59:11PM -0400, Alexis Ballier wrote:
> >>> How do you plan to handle the following:
> >>> - foo installs an udev rule
> >>> - install foo with old udev
> >>> - upgrade udev
> >>>
> >>> are rules installed by foo used by new udev ?
> >
> >> No, they wouldn't be; that is a good reason to question the value
> >> of the eclass itself. Maybe the correct way to do this is to
> >> forget the eclass and just file bugs against packages that break
> >> having them move their rules to the new location and set a
> >> dependency on the newer udev.
> > Perhaps a new ebuild helper would be best here? It seems no one
> > knows where to install udev rules in the first place (I know I
> > didn't till a recent version of portage yelled at me with a QA
> > warning).
> >
> > How about dorule/newrule?
>
> I guess then we'd need the installed udev to set an environment
> variable via /etc/env.d, in order to control the location where the
> rules are installed?

Having the location of installed files depend on environment variables
always sounded bad practices to me. Maybe it is quite common, but I
remember specifically hardcoding paths in TeXLive's ebuilds/eclasses to
avoid this behavior.

A.
 

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