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Old 06-25-2012, 04:15 AM
Mike Gilbert
 
Default grub:2 keywords

An official release of grub-2.00 should be coming pretty soon. I would
like to keyword this for ~amd64 and ~x86 shortly after it hits the tree.
I don't do much work on base system packages, so I would like some
advice on how to make this as smooth as possible.

My main concern is that many people probably have sys-boot/grub in
@world. If grub:2 is made visible, portage will install it, and will
remove grub-0.97 on the next depclean. This could be a little confusing,
but should not cause any immediate damage since the copy of grub-0.97
installed in the MBR and /boot would remain intact.

Is this worthy of a news item? Or I just blog about it?

Anything else I need to think about here?

Note: The Gentoo Documentation Project has indicated that they do not
want to add anything to the handbook until we are somewhat close to
stabilizing grub:2. That's at least a couple months away.
 
Old 06-25-2012, 05:35 AM
Richard Yao
 
Default grub:2 keywords

On 06/25/2012 12:15 AM, Mike Gilbert wrote:
> An official release of grub-2.00 should be coming pretty soon. I would
> like to keyword this for ~amd64 and ~x86 shortly after it hits the tree.
> I don't do much work on base system packages, so I would like some
> advice on how to make this as smooth as possible.
>
> My main concern is that many people probably have sys-boot/grub in
> @world. If grub:2 is made visible, portage will install it, and will
> remove grub-0.97 on the next depclean. This could be a little confusing,
> but should not cause any immediate damage since the copy of grub-0.97
> installed in the MBR and /boot would remain intact.
>
> Is this worthy of a news item? Or I just blog about it?
>
> Anything else I need to think about here?
>
> Note: The Gentoo Documentation Project has indicated that they do not
> want to add anything to the handbook until we are somewhat close to
> stabilizing grub:2. That's at least a couple months away.
>

I think it would be best to move sys-boot/grub:2 to sys-boot/grub2. That
should avoid confusion.
 
Old 06-25-2012, 09:10 AM
 
Default grub:2 keywords

Mike Gilbert <floppym@gentoo.org> writes:

> My main concern is that many people probably have sys-boot/grub in
> @world.

How about a news item advising people to put sys-boot/grub:0 in their
world file to retain grub:0?

> If grub:2 is made visible, portage will install it, and will remove
> grub-0.97 on the next depclean. This could be a little confusing, but
> should not cause any immediate damage since the copy of grub-0.97
> installed in the MBR and /boot would remain intact.
>
> Is this worthy of a news item? Or I just blog about it?
 
Old 06-25-2012, 09:15 AM
Michał Górny
 
Default grub:2 keywords

On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 01:35:19 -0400
Richard Yao <ryao@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On 06/25/2012 12:15 AM, Mike Gilbert wrote:
> > An official release of grub-2.00 should be coming pretty soon. I
> > would like to keyword this for ~amd64 and ~x86 shortly after it
> > hits the tree. I don't do much work on base system packages, so I
> > would like some advice on how to make this as smooth as possible.
> >
> > My main concern is that many people probably have sys-boot/grub in
> > @world. If grub:2 is made visible, portage will install it, and will
> > remove grub-0.97 on the next depclean. This could be a little
> > confusing, but should not cause any immediate damage since the copy
> > of grub-0.97 installed in the MBR and /boot would remain intact.
> >
> > Is this worthy of a news item? Or I just blog about it?
> >
> > Anything else I need to think about here?
> >
> > Note: The Gentoo Documentation Project has indicated that they do
> > not want to add anything to the handbook until we are somewhat
> > close to stabilizing grub:2. That's at least a couple months away.
>
> I think it would be best to move sys-boot/grub:2 to sys-boot/grub2.
> That should avoid confusion.

If our plan is to replace grub1 with grub2 at some point, that seems
incorrect. In other words, if grub2 is 'natural progress' from grub1.

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
 
Old 06-25-2012, 03:19 PM
Doug Goldstein
 
Default grub:2 keywords

On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 11:15 PM, Mike Gilbert <floppym@gentoo.org> wrote:
> An official release of grub-2.00 should be coming pretty soon. I would
> like to keyword this for ~amd64 and ~x86 shortly after it hits the tree.
> I don't do much work on base system packages, so I would like some
> advice on how to make this as smooth as possible.
>
> My main concern is that many people probably have sys-boot/grub in
> @world. If grub:2 is made visible, portage will install it, and will
> remove grub-0.97 on the next depclean. This could be a little confusing,
> but should not cause any immediate damage since the copy of grub-0.97
> installed in the MBR and /boot would remain intact.
>
> Is this worthy of a news item? Or I just blog about it?
>
> Anything else I need to think about here?
>
> Note: The Gentoo Documentation Project has indicated that they do not
> want to add anything to the handbook until we are somewhat close to
> stabilizing grub:2. That's at least a couple months away.
>

Mike,

Since Grub Legacy and Grub 2 are slotted, Portage won't remove the
older version. Even if it removes the older one, everything necessary
is installed into /boot and the MBR already.

The best route forward would be to instruct people to use
grub2-install (but whatever the flag is to prevent MBR installation).
Have people generate their grub.cfg with grub2-mkconfig and then put a
chain loader into the Grub Legacy configs so that they can test Grub 2
and then once they test it tell them to install Grub 2 into the MBR
and remove Grub Legacy.

I'll gladly work with you on this. IMHO, it might be a good plan to
unmask and ~arch one of the release candidates with an aim to get Grub
2.0.0 fully released with docs.

--
Doug Goldstein
 
Old 06-25-2012, 04:56 PM
Mike Gilbert
 
Default grub:2 keywords

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Doug Goldstein <cardoe@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Since Grub Legacy and Grub 2 are slotted, Portage won't remove the
> older version. Even if it removes the older one, everything necessary
> is installed into /boot and the MBR already.

Portage will remove the older slot the next time the user runs emerge
--depclean unless sys-boot/grub:0 is added to the world file. I'm
looking for a good way to communicate this to the user.

How about this: For ~arch, we do an ewarn in pkg_postinst if grub:0 is
installed. For stable, we do a news item.

>
> The best route forward would be to instruct people to use
> grub2-install (but whatever the flag is to prevent MBR installation).
> Have people generate their grub.cfg with grub2-mkconfig and then put a
> chain loader into the Grub Legacy configs so that they can test Grub 2
> and then once they test it tell them to install Grub 2 into the MBR
> and remove Grub Legacy.

Yeah, I vaguely remember trying this when I first installed grub:2.
You can prevent the MBR installation by stubbing out the grub-setup
call. For example:

grub2-install --grub-setup=/bin/true /dev/sda

You would then load /boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img just like a Linux
kernel from menu.lst.

If you (or anyone) wants to test and verify that this actually works,
that would be great.

>
> I'll gladly work with you on this. IMHO, it might be a good plan to
> unmask and ~arch one of the release candidates with an aim to get Grub
> 2.0.0 fully released with docs.

That sounds like a good idea.
 
Old 06-25-2012, 05:02 PM
Michał Górny
 
Default grub:2 keywords

On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 00:15:59 -0400
Mike Gilbert <floppym@gentoo.org> wrote:

> An official release of grub-2.00 should be coming pretty soon. I would
> like to keyword this for ~amd64 and ~x86 shortly after it hits the
> tree. I don't do much work on base system packages, so I would like
> some advice on how to make this as smooth as possible.
>
> My main concern is that many people probably have sys-boot/grub in
> @world. If grub:2 is made visible, portage will install it, and will
> remove grub-0.97 on the next depclean. This could be a little
> confusing, but should not cause any immediate damage since the copy
> of grub-0.97 installed in the MBR and /boot would remain intact.
>
> Is this worthy of a news item? Or I just blog about it?
>
> Anything else I need to think about here?
>
> Note: The Gentoo Documentation Project has indicated that they do not
> want to add anything to the handbook until we are somewhat close to
> stabilizing grub:2. That's at least a couple months away.

I guess you could prepare some docs already, and put them e.g.
on the Wiki. Then it would be a really good idea to release a news item
and point users to those information and inform them about possible
choices.

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
 
Old 06-25-2012, 05:26 PM
Mike Gilbert
 
Default grub:2 keywords

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 00:15:59 -0400
> Mike Gilbert <floppym@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
>> An official release of grub-2.00 should be coming pretty soon. I would
>> like to keyword this for ~amd64 and ~x86 shortly after it hits the
>> tree. I don't do much work on base system packages, so I would like
>> some advice on how to make this as smooth as possible.
>>
>> My main concern is that many people probably have sys-boot/grub in
>> @world. If grub:2 is made visible, portage will install it, and will
>> remove grub-0.97 on the next depclean. This could be a little
>> confusing, but should not cause any immediate damage since the copy
>> of grub-0.97 installed in the MBR and /boot would remain intact.
>>
>> Is this worthy of a news item? Or I just blog about it?
>>
>> Anything else I need to think about here?
>>
>> Note: The Gentoo Documentation Project has indicated that they do not
>> want to add anything to the handbook until we are somewhat close to
>> stabilizing grub:2. That's at least a couple months away.
>
> I guess you could prepare some docs already, and put them e.g.
> on the Wiki. Then it would be a really good idea to release a news item
> and point users to those information and inform them about possible
> choices.
>

There is already an elog message referring users to the wiki:

http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GRUB2_Quick_Start
 
Old 06-26-2012, 02:43 AM
Duncan
 
Default grub:2 keywords

Mike Gilbert posted on Mon, 25 Jun 2012 12:56:25 -0400 as excerpted:

> On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Doug Goldstein <cardoe@gentoo.org>
> wrote:
>> Since Grub Legacy and Grub 2 are slotted, Portage won't remove the
>> older version. Even if it removes the older one, everything necessary
>> is installed into /boot and the MBR already.
>
> Portage will remove the older slot the next time the user runs emerge
> --depclean unless sys-boot/grub:0 is added to the world file. I'm
> looking for a good way to communicate this to the user.
>
> How about this: For ~arch, we do an ewarn in pkg_postinst if grub:0 is
> installed. For stable, we do a news item.

Here's a bit of a different idea:

Changing the bootloader is really a profile level change. If appropriate
grub2-defaulted new profiles are created, and the old ones set to specify
grub:0 as their default bootloader and then deprecated, this will
automatically both provide the appropriate upgrade preparation required
hint, and allow users to upgrade on their own schedule during the usual
profile deprecation period.

Additionally, if there are continued issues with gcc building the old
grub, etc (as was complicating the gcc-4.6 upgrade), the old profile can
be set to mask new gcc, as well, thus providing additional encouragement
to upgrade for the new gcc, and allowing people to deal with that upgrade
at the same time, with their profile switch. As such, supporting the old
profiles during the deprecation period shouldn't be too bad, since slots,
version-ranges, etc, can be nailed down as necessary, and people will
automatically be prepared to deal with a bit of churn as they do their
profile upgrade.

Thinking back, that probably would have been the best way to handle the
baselayout-2/openrc upgrade as well, but that's rather behind us, now.

--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman
 
Old 06-26-2012, 03:13 AM
Mike Gilbert
 
Default grub:2 keywords

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 10:43 PM, Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> wrote:
> Mike Gilbert posted on Mon, 25 Jun 2012 12:56:25 -0400 as excerpted:
>
>> On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Doug Goldstein <cardoe@gentoo.org>
>> wrote:
>>> Since Grub Legacy and Grub 2 are slotted, Portage won't remove the
>>> older version. Even if it removes the older one, everything necessary
>>> is installed into /boot and the MBR already.
>>
>> Portage will remove the older slot the next time the user runs emerge
>> --depclean unless sys-boot/grub:0 is added to the world file. I'm
>> looking for a good way to communicate this to the user.
>>
>> How about this: For ~arch, we do an ewarn in pkg_postinst if grub:0 is
>> installed. For stable, we do a news item.
>
> Here's a bit of a different idea:
>
> Changing the bootloader is really a profile level change. *If appropriate
> grub2-defaulted new profiles are created, and the old ones set to specify
> grub:0 as their default bootloader and then deprecated, this will
> automatically both provide the appropriate upgrade preparation required
> hint, and allow users to upgrade on their own schedule during the usual
> profile deprecation period.
>

Profiles do not set a "default bootloader" so I have no idea what you
are talking about.

Installing grub:2 does not replace grub:0 until the user actually runs
grub2-install, so you can already upgrade on your own schedule.
 

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