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Old 05-04-2012, 01:22 AM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default Chromium bundled code

On Thursday 03 May 2012 20:49:25 Luca Barbato wrote:
> On 03/05/12 16:18, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > On Thursday 03 May 2012 17:39:30 Walter Dnes wrote:
> >> I fail to understand why a *WEB BROWSER* needs elfutils and dbus and
> >> udev as hard-coded dependancies.
> >
> > you need to think bigger. Chromium supports joystick inputs (which come
> > and go) for playing games in the browser, so udev makes sense.
>
> So is it using libudev to get that information? I guess would be
> possible to patch it out, probably dbus would cover that base as well.

i'm not sure that info is broadcasted over dbus. at any rate, if it is, i'm
not sure that would gain traction upstream unless it was an improvement. and
if it's not going upstream, i don't Paweł is keen on maintaining it locally.

> (As soon I have some time I might dabble with a dbus integration for mdev)

we would have to make mdev available as a sep package then ... don't want
busybox itself linking against anything beyond the C library.
-mike
 
Old 05-04-2012, 08:37 AM
Alec Warner
 
Default Chromium bundled code

On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 11:39 PM, Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> wrote:
> On Thu, May 03, 2012 at 11:28:49AM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote
>
>> However, my whole point wasn't to throw stones at the chromium team -
>> I think that they've been doing a great job of fixing this problem,
>> and will continue to do so. *I just was pointing out that Google's
>> practice of bundling dependencies wasn't to my liking, but that I
>> wasn't going to give them too much of a hard time precisely because
>> I'm not being part of the solution.
>
> *I think Chromium's problem is that it's based on Chrome. *And Google
> is "pulling an AOL" by trying to turn Chrome into an OS for its
> Chromebooks. *To paraphrase the old emacs joke... Chrom(e/ium) is a
> mediocre OS that lacks a lightweight web browser. *I just did a
> "pretend" build for Chromium. *I fail to understand why a *WEB BROWSER*

I would argue that the Chrome Team's idea of what a 'WEB BROWSER' is
and your idea of what a 'WEB BROWSER' is are vastly divergent. That is
totally OK and you are free to use whatever software you prefer. I
somehow doubt Chrom{e,ium} is losing tons of users due to their udev /
dbus / etc requirements.

Disclaimer, I work at Google (but not on any Chrom{e,ium}(OS) related projects.)

-A

> needs elfutils and dbus and udev as hard-coded dependancies. *The udev
> dependancy is a show stopper for me, as I've migrated over to mdev. *See
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Mdev *That page is now mostly other
> people's contributions. *I was the rabble-rouser who started it.
>
> --
> Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
>
 
Old 05-04-2012, 06:02 PM
Luca Barbato
 
Default Chromium bundled code

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Hash: SHA1

On 03/05/12 18:22, Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> (As soon I have some time I might dabble with a dbus integration for mdev)
>
> we would have to make mdev available as a sep package then ... don't want
> busybox itself linking against anything beyond the C library.

The integration would be mdev -> shell -> dbus or mdev -> socket ->
dbus. I consider dbus still not reliable for core services.

> -mike


- --

Luca Barbato
Gentoo/linux
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero

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Old 05-04-2012, 06:03 PM
Luca Barbato
 
Default Chromium bundled code

On 04/05/12 01:37, Alec Warner wrote:
> I would argue that the Chrome Team's idea of what a 'WEB BROWSER' is
> and your idea of what a 'WEB BROWSER' is are vastly divergent. That is
> totally OK and you are free to use whatever software you prefer. I
> somehow doubt Chrom{e,ium} is losing tons of users due to their udev /
> dbus / etc requirements.

If dbus and libudev are just for fringe features might be nice disable
them. I wonder if there isn't already a setting for it. chrome for
android won't use them anyway.



--

Luca Barbato
Gentoo/linux
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero
 
Old 05-04-2012, 06:21 PM
Mike Gilbert
 
Default Chromium bundled code

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Luca Barbato <lu_zero@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On 04/05/12 01:37, Alec Warner wrote:
>> I would argue that the Chrome Team's idea of what a 'WEB BROWSER' is
>> and your idea of what a 'WEB BROWSER' is are vastly divergent. That is
>> totally OK and you are free to use whatever software you prefer. I
>> somehow doubt Chrom{e,ium} is losing tons of users due to their udev /
>> dbus / etc requirements.
>
> If dbus and libudev are just for fringe features might be nice disable
> them. I wonder if there isn't already a setting for it. chrome for
> android won't use them anyway.
>

I don't see a user-controllable setting for dbus or udev. Rather, it
checks for OS == "Linux".

My 2 cents: The Chromium project really doesn't have any motivation to
make it optional since their end product is Google Chrome and they
target a given version of Ubuntu. I think a patch to make them
optional might be accepted, but it probably isn't going to happen
otherwise.
 
Old 05-04-2012, 06:35 PM
"Paweł Hajdan, Jr."
 
Default Chromium bundled code

On 5/4/12 8:02 PM, Luca Barbato wrote:
> I consider dbus still not reliable for core services.

Just curious - why? I just have no idea about how dbus works or what are
possible problems with it.
 
Old 05-04-2012, 06:37 PM
"Paweł Hajdan, Jr."
 
Default Chromium bundled code

On 5/4/12 8:21 PM, Mike Gilbert wrote:
> My 2 cents: The Chromium project really doesn't have any motivation to
> make it optional since their end product is Google Chrome and they
> target a given version of Ubuntu. I think a patch to make them
> optional might be accepted, but it probably isn't going to happen
> otherwise.

Another point is that too many USE flags for such a big and complex
package as www-client/chromium would make testing much much harder, and
create many configurations upstream would not support.
 
Old 05-04-2012, 07:18 PM
Luca Barbato
 
Default Chromium bundled code

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On 04/05/12 11:35, "Paweł Hajdan, Jr." wrote:
> On 5/4/12 8:02 PM, Luca Barbato wrote:
>> I consider dbus still not reliable for core services.
>
> Just curious - why? I just have no idea about how dbus works or what are
> possible problems with it.

About all the integrations I know of crash if the daemon crashes and the
daemon itself tended to be frail. I hadn't checked lately if it improved
since all my usage for it is limited.

Anyway for core services I'm sold to the principle of the least
complexity and maximum separation, so that replacing/updating dbus won't
force me to reboot my system.

lu


- --

Luca Barbato
Gentoo/linux
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero

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Old 05-04-2012, 07:25 PM
David Leverton
 
Default Chromium bundled code

Luca Barbato wrote:

On 03/05/12 16:18, Mike Frysinger wrote:

you need to think bigger. Chromium supports joystick inputs (which come and
go) for playing games in the browser, so udev makes sense.


So is it using libudev to get that information? I guess would be
possible to patch it out, probably dbus would cover that base as well.

(As soon I have some time I might dabble with a dbus integration for mdev)


If it really is just for joysticks etc it might be worth seeing if it
can be made to use XInput instead. Maybe upstream had a specific reason
not do it that way in the first place, but in general, X apps really
shouldn't be touching the input devices directly.
 
Old 05-04-2012, 07:39 PM
Luca Barbato
 
Default Chromium bundled code

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 04/05/12 11:37, "Paweł Hajdan, Jr." wrote:
> On 5/4/12 8:21 PM, Mike Gilbert wrote:
>> My 2 cents: The Chromium project really doesn't have any motivation to
>> make it optional since their end product is Google Chrome and they
>> target a given version of Ubuntu. I think a patch to make them
>> optional might be accepted, but it probably isn't going to happen
>> otherwise.
>
> Another point is that too many USE flags for such a big and complex
> package as www-client/chromium would make testing much much harder, and
> create many configurations upstream would not support.

I'll check with upstream if that would be a huge problem for them, we
have 6 useflags and we'd bump them to 8. Firefox has twice of them.

If nobody else wants to I could have a look and see how hard is to make
that nicer for our non-udev/non-dbus users on linux.

lu

- --

Luca Barbato
Gentoo/linux
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero

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