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Old 02-24-2012, 10:26 PM
Default btrfs status and/was: preserve_old_lib

Rich Freeman posted on Fri, 24 Feb 2012 13:47:45 -0500 as excerpted:

> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Alexis Ballier <aballier@gentoo.org>
> wrote:
>> moreover the && wont delete the lib if revdep-rebuild failed i think,
>> so it should be even safer to copy/paste

FWIW this is the preserved_libs feature/bug I ran into in early testing,
that convinced me to turn it off. Running revdep-rebuild manually was
far safer anyway, since at least then I /knew/ the status of various
libs, they weren't preserved on first run, then arbitrarily deleted on
second, even if it still broke remaining depending apps to do so.

So if that was reliably fixed, I'd be FAR happier about enabling
FEATURES=preserved-libs. I'm not sure I actually would as I like a bit
more direct knowledge of stale libs on the system than the automated
handling gives me, but at least I'd not have to worry about the so-called
"preserved" libs STILL disappearing and leaving broken packages, if I DID
enable it!

So definitely ++ on this! =:^)

> Am I the only paranoid person who moves them rather than unlinking them?
> Oh, if only btrfs were stable...

FWIW, in the rare event it breaks revdep-rebuild or the underlying
rebuilding itself, I rely on my long set FEATURES=buildpkg and emerge
-K. In the even rarer event that too is broken, there's always manual
untarring of the missing lib from the binpkg (I've had to do that once
when gcc itself was broken due to an unadvised emerge -C that I knew
might break things given the depclean warning, but also knew I could fix
with an untar if it came to it, which it did), or if it comes to it,
booting to backup and using ROOT= to emerge -K back to the working system.

[btrfs status discussion, skip if uninterested.]

I'm not sure if that's a reference to the btrfs snapshots allowing
rollbacks feature, or a hint that you're running it and worried about its
stability underneath you...

If it's the latter, you probably already know this, but if it's the
former, and for others interested...

I recently set the btrfs kernel options and merged btrfs-progs, then read
up on the wiki and joined the btrfs list, with the plan being to get
familiar with it and perhaps install it.

From all the reports about it being an option for various distros, etc,
now, and all the constant improvement reports, I had /thought/ that the
biggest issue for stability was the lack of an error-correcting (not just
detecting) fsck.btrfs, and that the restore tool announced late last
year, that allows pulling data off of unmountable btrfs volumes was a
reasonable workaround.

What I found, even allowing for the fact that such lists get the bad
reports and not the good ones, thus paint a rather worse picture of the
situation than actually exists for most users, is that...

BTRFS still has a rather longer way to go than I had thought. It's still
FAR from stable, even for someone like myself that often runs betas and
was prepared to keep (and use, if necessary) TESTED backups, etc. Maybe
by Q4 this year, but also very possibly not until next year. I'd
definitely NOT recommend that anyone run it now, unless you are
SPECIFICALLY running it for testing and bug reporting purposes with
"garbage" data (IOW, data that you're NOT depending on, at the btrfs
level, at all) that you are not only PREPARED to lose, but EXPECT to
lose, perhaps repeatedly, during your testing.

IOW, there's still known untraced and unfixed active data corruption bugs
remaining. Don't put your data on btrfs at this point unless you EXPECT
to have it corrupted, and want to actively help in tracing and patching
the problems!

Additionally, for anyone who has been interested in the btrfs RAID
capacities, striped/raid0 it handles, but its raid1 and raid10 capacities
are misnamed. At present, it's strictly two-way-mirror ONLY, there's no
way to do N-way (N>2) mirroring aside from layering on top of say mdraid,
at all, and of course layering on top of mdraid loses the data integrity
guarantees at that level, btrfs still has just the one additional copy it
can fall back on. This SERIOUSLY limits btrfs data integrity
possibilities in a 2+ drive failure scenario.

btrfs raid5/6 isn't available yet, but the current roadmap says kernels
3.4 or 3.5. Multi-mirror is supposed to be built on that code, tho the
mentions of it I've seen are specifically triple-mirror, so it's unclear
whether arbitrary N-way (N>3) mirroring as in true raid1 will be possible
even then. But whether triple-way specifically or N-way (N>=3), given
it's on top of raid5/6, to be introduced in 3.4/3.5, triple-way mirroring
thus appears to be 3.5/3.6 at the earliest.

So while I had gotten the picture that btrfs was stabilizing and it was
mostly over-cautiousness keeping that experimental label around, that's
definitely NOT the case. Nobody should really plan on /relying/ on it,
even with backups, until at least late this year, and very possibly
looking at 2013 now.

So btrfs is still a ways out. =:^(

Meanwhile, for anyone that's still interested in it at this point, note
that the homepage wiki currently listed the btrfs-progs package is a
stale copy on kernel.org, still read-only after the kernel.org breakin.
The "temporary" but looking more and more permanent location is:


Also, regarding the gentoo btrfs-progs package, see my recently filed:


Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman

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